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Dalkeith, next Junior giant to take the plunge.


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So the much talked about move of another big east Junior club upping sticks and off to the land of milk and honey has been unveiled, Dalkeith!  

No disrespect to them but they never made much impression in the Juniors so why move? They will I'm sure forward the usual standard statement about ambition, moving on to bigger and better things. Ironic isn't it? They might now actually win something. Did I hear someone shout OXYMORON! :P

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Why move?  - well for all of the reasons that have been discussed in all of the other threads about this same topic. That they will have jumped Bot in the hierarchy of football appears to have left you a seething mess.

As per.... 

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14 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

So the much talked about move of another big east Junior club upping sticks and off to the land of milk and honey has been unveiled, Dalkeith!  

No disrespect to them but they never made much impression in the Juniors so why move? They will I'm sure forward the usual standard statement about ambition, moving on to bigger and better things. Ironic isn't it? They might now actually win something. Did I hear someone shout OXYMORON! :P

Pathetic, frankly.

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Moving to a league where there’s a fixture list that allows you to plan ahead, allows access to a license if the works put in which in turn brings in income, playing at a level with more chance of assistant referees and allows the chance to progress.

Travel costs would also likely be lower for them.

Or

Stick with the juniors where you get a weeks notice for games, making math sponsorship harder, prize money is non existent (biggest tournaments have no sponsor), most lower league junior games have no linesmen and also some Scottish cup games.

The SJFA/SFA need to sit down and do some proper thinking around this.

In a country our size having two different associations is a nonsense.

Something along the lines of 2 national leagues of 16, a combined west region (west juniors and SOS) multiple levels and further geographical split may keep costs down), same in the east and north. Round robin by the 3 league winners and top team goes up with bottom team down and 2nd place plays off against second bottom. Clubs should also be able to opt out of promotion at the start of each season. The licensing also needs to be reviewed as part of this, there should be a national license along the lines of how it’s written today but that doesn’t work for smaller clubs trying to better them selves. Entry level should also be tiered to reflect the small clubs that are part time and run by volunteers. With entry level gold required if a club wishes to be promoted

The Sat Amateurs should also be included.

Keep the Scottish and league cup, a non league cup covering the regions and each region can add in a cup or 2 where desired.

Otherwise I don’t see how a number of clubs can continue to survive how our grade is. The biggest issue is that everyone votes on self interest and the tail tends to wag the dug.

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15 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

So the much talked about move of another big east Junior club upping sticks and off to the land of milk and honey has been unveiled, Dalkeith!  

No disrespect to them but they never made much impression in the Juniors so why move? They will I'm sure forward the usual standard statement about ambition, moving on to bigger and better things. Ironic isn't it? They might now actually win something. Did I hear someone shout OXYMORON! :P

Oxymoron? You might want to reach for a dictionary.

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19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Pathetic, frankly.

Totally agree, can't think of anywhere else in world sport where you would step up to play vastly inferior opposition to win something and call it progress, can you? 

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19 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Oxymoron? You might want to reach for a dictionary.

Ah, my self promoting learned friend, give us all the font of your education, why do I need a dictionary? 

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Totally agree, can't think of anywhere else in world sport where you would step up to play vastly inferior opposition to win something and call it progress, can you? 
But they can continue to step up, all the way to the top if they really wanted, as long as the funding, support and ability are there. Where can your club or mine go without making the move? Backwards is the only place I can see in terms of the footballing world.
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1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

So the much talked about move of another big east Junior club upping sticks and off to the land of milk and honey has been unveiled, Dalkeith!  

No disrespect to them but they never made much impression in the Juniors so why move? They will I'm sure forward the usual standard statement about ambition, moving on to bigger and better things. Ironic isn't it? They might now actually win something. Did I hear someone shout OXYMORON! :P

From Wiki:

"They play their home matches at King's Park, which has room for roughly 2,000 spectators. The new pavilion was erected in 2007, and floodlights were installed at the ground in 2013."

They'll not be far off being able to get a licence. Why should they f**k about at their level in the juniors if they can find their level in a similar environment playing teams in a broadly equivalent geographical area?  And beyond that, they can benefit from doing things right off the pitch in the way that Threave,  Gala and others have by securing their licence. 

It's not their fault that you don't want to entertain a change.  It's not their fault that many of you think it's too far too travel and booted a joined up juniors into touch - never mind entertain links with the outside world. You stick to your tier 7 backwater and leave these clubs who are pushing on ahead of you to get on with it.  

I jest obviously - but not too much. 

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1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

So the much talked about move of another big east Junior club upping sticks and off to the land of milk and honey has been unveiled, Dalkeith!  

No disrespect to them but they never made much impression in the Juniors so why move? They will I'm sure forward the usual standard statement about ambition, moving on to bigger and better things. Ironic isn't it? They might now actually win something. Did I hear someone shout OXYMORON! :P

Goudie knows what we all know if Talbot make the jump they will be swallowed up into obscurity. Best to hang around the juniors and pretend to be a big fish.

The concern now for me is the more clubs making the move now is 100% making the juniors and it's comps poorer. The early movers may just benifit getting in early enough where it becomes a closed shop and those left behind will be locked out and left behind.

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For a club like Dalkeith moving to the Seniors makes sense.  They are going nowhere fast in the junior ranks.  They are likely to get into the Lowland League, will attract some ex seniors and are quite capable of challenging at some point for the title.  What they will find is that revenue will decline and that they will need both a financial backer and a hard working committee to progress.  If not they face obscurity.  Big risk.  The plain fact is that the Lowland League gets a fair bit of publicity in the East, just about the same as the Juniors.

in the West there is no equivalent.  Junior football predominates but even there and in particular Glasgow it is on its last legs.  While Ayrshire still has some very good supported clubs the Glasgow teams are shrinking in stature one by one.  Very few of any size remain.  Pollock and Arthulie remain strong but the majority have now settled for community club status playing on plastic pitches in grounds with no atmosphere and even less support.  Others on the outskirts are slightly better.

As was said in this thread there is no room for 2 feeder leagues in Scotland.  The major junior clubs would dominate any version of a Lowland or Southern League very quickly.  The pyramid system in England has been very successful in allowing clubs to progress upwards.  As a result look at the quality of non league grounds there.  Improvement in ground and playing standards is the outcome.  If Talbot, Glens, Buffs and Pollok want to stay as big fish in a small pond then they could still do so by refusing to take promotion to the Scottish Second Division.  They cite travel distances as a major consideration but frequently enjoy away days in the Scottish like we all do.

Whether you agree with this view I think we can all agree that change has to come to protect the whole of the junior brigade.   Clubs should instruct their SJFA delegates to get that organisation to enter into a proper series of discussions with the SFA and find a solution to save junior football from obscurity.

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2 hours ago, sponsorsladdie said:

Something along the lines of 2 national leagues of 16, a combined west region (west juniors and SOS) multiple levels and further geographical split may keep costs down), same in the east and north. 

The 10 SPFL clubs you're regionalising there, plus the clubs above them at risk of being relegated to that level at some stage, are strongly opposed to regional football at that level. They'd rather Tier 5 was national than Tiers 3 and 4 were regional. Until that changes there is precisely 0% chance of a integrating Juniors with Seniors.

The only way integration will come about is if enough Junior clubs for whom the set-up isn't working drift across, weakening the Juniors enough to make the rest want to jump. If any two of Bo'ness, Bonnyrigg or Linlithgow go it would probably start a stampede in the East. Personally I'd rather stick with what we have than sign up to the current pyramid.

Good luck to Dalkeith, it's sad to have further division between the Midlothian clubs but in the absence of organised structural change they're right to do what's in their best interests.

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Think the only surprise was that it was a club like Kelty that had more to lose if their supporters didn't embrace the move that did it first rather than a club like Dalkeith that have less to worry about given they draw relatively small crowds and can now look forward to regular subsidy money from the SFA and a shot at the Scottish Cup every season. Suspect Haddington won't be too far behind in heading for the exit, as they are also from a largish town that could be expected to support a bit more than it currently does in football terms and are known to have been working towards licensing for a while.

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5 hours ago, kenny131 said:

Goudie knows what we all know if Talbot make the jump they will be swallowed up into obscurity. Best to hang around the juniors and pretend to be a big fish.

The concern now for me is the more clubs making the move now is 100% making the juniors and it's comps poorer. The early movers may just benifit getting in early enough where it becomes a closed shop and those left behind will be locked out and left behind.

Well Kenny, your yearning for the Talbot demise is relentless. Never mind go and get yourself some Andrex fella and have a day dream, or more appropriately a wet dream, and imagine Talbot in obscurity. That’s as close as you’ll get to your ultimate fantasy. 

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