The Moonster Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Fair enough Gents, perhaps the original title should have read ‘Capital Punishment in Scotland’ just to avoid any comment outside your assumed parameters. My apologies. Apology not accepted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Apology not accepted. Fair do’s. The point that the reoffend rate of 30% within 12 months across the UK still stands. Our prison population (including reoffenders) is higher than any of our comparable European partners. Either the ‘punishment’ isn’t seen as a deterrent or attempts at rehabilitation are falling way short. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Fair do’s. The point that the reoffend rate of 30% within 12 months across the UK still stands. Our prison population (including reoffenders) is higher than any of our comparable European partners. Either the ‘punishment’ isn’t seen as a deterrent or attempts at rehabilitation are falling way short. Maybe we should look at what countries do to achieve a lower recidivism rate. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest_Man#1 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Fair do’s. The point that the reoffend rate of 30% within 12 months across the UK still stands. Our prison population (including reoffenders) is higher than any of our comparable European partners. Either the ‘punishment’ isn’t seen as a deterrent or attempts at rehabilitation are falling way short. Are you going to stick rigidly to your "punish and rehabilitate at the same time" stance despite the evidence it doesn't work like that? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Maybe we should look at what countries do to achieve a lower recidivism rate. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people The article quotes a 30% re-offending rate in Norway and the latest Scottish Government figures have it at 28.2% in Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Fair do’s. The point that the reoffend rate of 30% within 12 months across the UK still stands. Our prison population (including reoffenders) is higher than any of our comparable European partners. Either the ‘punishment’ isn’t seen as a deterrent or attempts at rehabilitation are falling way short. That's a false dichotomy imo. It seems pretty clear that the right-wing desire to be harsher on low-level offenders is causing higher rates of reoffending. If you imprison people who have committed a minor offence they will lose their jobs, lose employability in the future and will become hardened by prison. This is no way suggests that we need to kill murderers rather than imprisoning them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Maybe we should look at what countries do to achieve a lower recidivism rate.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people It’s a nice idea, our crumbling prisons, packed to the rafters, could do with a bit of a revamp. How much (£) do you think will cover it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, strichener said: The article quotes a 30% re-offending rate in Norway and the latest Scottish Government figures have it at 28.2% in Scotland. I noticed that. It also says they have the lowest rates in Europe so perhaps the stats are made differently, or it's a typo. Here it says 20% within 2 years, and England + Wales 59%. No 2 year figure for Scotland. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/table/pone.0130390.t001/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ P.S. It's a bit out of date, and points out how difficult the data is to compare given different criteria. Edited January 16, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Kill everyone in prison, move all the homeless people into the prisons. No need to do up the prisons because homeless people are used to living in shite conditions anyway. The re-offending rate would be 0% and nobody would be without a home. Sturgeon, I await your call. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: It’s a nice idea, our crumbling prisons, packed to the rafters, could do with a bit of a revamp. How much (£) do you think will cover it? More and better trained prison staff would be a good start. And better use of alternatives for low grade offenders and remand prisoners. Scotland seems to be being quite successful at this. Edited January 16, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Are you going to stick rigidly to your "punish and rehabilitate at the same time" stance despite the evidence it doesn't work like that? The reformative theory of punishment suggests that both can work to the mutual benefit of both the offender and society. I did say initially that the consideration was of grave offences in line with the title of the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 hours ago, RedRob72 said: You can’t punish whilst working a plan of rehabilitation? Hmmm Perhaps that’s why the current system is so ineffective when it comes to re-offending rates which have gone through the roof over the last 20 years. Have we lost any notion whatsoever that a possible prison sentence should serve as a deterrent? Surely the restriction of liberty is the punishment element. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Surely the restriction of liberty is the punishment element. You would think so eh!? Incarceration as a punishment doesn’t seem to serve as a deterrent or as incentive to ‘going straight’ though, If over a third of offenders end up back inside within 12 months.Perhaps an extended use of properly supervised Community Service Orders could be part of the answer for less than serious offences. The offender is committed to paying something back to the community in unpaid work, restricted freedom of movement forms part of the punishment whilst the opportunity for rehabilitation can be identified simultaneously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 It may be hard to believe, but the general populace may be, on average, even bigger c***s than the folk who post on here 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountyFan Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 19 minutes ago, Serious Business said: Theories on why is P&B so out of touch with the rest of society on so many social issues, such as the death penalty? 12% for here compared >50% for the UK as a whole. Please provide evidence for your assertion that more than 50 percent of the general population in the UK supports the death penalty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, CountyFan said: Please provide evidence for your assertion that more than 50 percent of the general population in the UK supports the death penalty. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountyFan Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured This helpful link shows that, 5 years ago, 45 percent of people in this particular poll favoured capital punishment. Please now provide evidence for the previous potter's assertion that more than 50% of the general population of the UK support capital punishment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, CountyFan said: This helpful link shows that, 5 years ago, 45 percent of people in this particular poll favoured capital punishment. Please now provide evidence for the previous potter's assertion that more than 50% of the general population of the UK support capital punishment. Can't find anything more up to date than this. I would guess the actual figure now would be very close to 50% Quote Also in August 2011, a representative survey conducted by Angus Reid Public Opinion showed that 65% of Britons support reinstating the death penalty for murder in Great Britain, while 28% oppose this course of action. Men and respondents aged over 35 are more likely to endorse the change.[64] In March 2015 a survey by the NatCen British Social Attitudes Report showed that public support for the death penalty had dropped to 48%.[65] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 This helpful link shows that, 5 years ago, 45 percent of people in this particular poll favoured capital punishment. Please now provide evidence for the previous potter's assertion that more than 50% of the general population of the UK support capital punishment. You're being pedantic. More folk favour it than don't. The political classes understand this but also know they can't possibly advocate its reintroduction (because it would be simply wrong).Capital punishment is one of a few issues where the public is, quite simply, wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, pandarilla said: You're being pedantic. More folk favour it than don't. The political classes understand this but also know they can't possibly advocate its reintroduction (because it would be simply wrong).Capital punishment is one of a few issues where the public is, quite simply, wrong. Like Brexit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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