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Just now, John Lambies Doos said:
Just now, welshbairn said:
Well surprise surprise, the DUP favour direct rule. NI getting ruled by a Government that the DUP could collapse at will.

Yes; and in my opinion they are also hoping for a hard border as a result of Brexit... of course they won't say that.

Where else can it be? I united island is a nice idea but they don't want that just now.

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10 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:
11 hours ago, welshbairn said:
Well surprise surprise, the DUP favour direct rule. NI getting ruled by a Government that the DUP could collapse at will.

Yes; and in my opinion they are also hoping for a hard border as a result of Brexit... of course they won't say that.

Don't think they are that mental. The status of Gaelic moving forward is pivotal enough as an issue that they are probably trying to get the best deal they possibly can.  Time will tell.

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I may be attributing to the Kirk what was in fact the census man when these started in 1855.  
Only got my own experience to go on but when doing the family tree stuff it seems that if you have people living in burghs - Montrose and Stonehaven being the ones for my paternal grandmothers side then records do indeed go way way back. I have records for churches all around Kincardineshire going back to the late 1600s and some Edinburgh stuff of a similar vintage.
All the Gaelic stuff gets really patchy once you are into the early 19th century to just being non existant beyond 1780 odd. 
My own theory, and it is nothing more than a guess, is that in the burghs where land, business and property ownership were all very important then you needed to keep records.
If you work a croft with no security of tenure why keep records as you aren't going to pass anything on. Or perhaps they did keep records but were just less fastidious about making sure they got kept for a long time or the conditions they kept them in.
 
That said some of the hardest stuff to find is in the mid 1800s by the time the Gaels and Irish in my family had moved to Glasgow and Dundee. Some of the variations on the surnames in the census are wild and you kind of forget that for 19th century Lowland Scots, names we wouldn't blink an eye at these days , must have been very strange to them.



I've been doing my family tree for over a year, and need some church records to continue my search. This info doesn't seem to be available on the genealogy sites I'm using or in the local registrars, so where do you access it?
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Don't think they are that mental. The status of Gaelic moving forward is pivotal enough as an issue that they are probably trying to get the best deal they possibly can.  Time will tell.

What do you think would be acceptable to the DUP as a deal, in exchange for a stand alone ILA LTL?
Given that SF say they will accept nothing less, AF says she will not bend to a ‘stand alone’ Act. Not sure how it can be ‘watered down’??
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14 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

I'd have thought the Kirk would have kept baptismal records long before this ...

In the central Lowlands you can often go back to the 1600s in genealogical terms. In the more remote parts of Shetland the records don't get going until the late 18th century and start off with a mix of Norse patronymics and east coast burgh type Scots surnames. Once the patronymics start being used geneaolgy is a nightmare, if they feature in your family tree. I had to rely on stories that were handed down about who lived where to be able to work it all out. Even some of the non-Norse patronymic Shetland surnames can have two versions. One Scottisiced version used on official records and another more traditional one used when Shetlanders speak amongst themselves that you can sometimes find in the earliest of the CoS records. My great-grandmother's surname looks Scottish in the official records but I have never heard the Shetland version being used on the Scottish mainland. It took me years to work out that my Shetland relatives would sometimes be using two quite different sounding names to refer to the same family, because it can be a lot more than a Broon vs Brown sort of thing.

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1 minute ago, RedRob72 said:


What do you think would be acceptable to the DUP as a deal, in exchange for a stand alone ILA LTL?
Given that SF say they will accept nothing less, AF says she will not bend to a ‘stand alone’ Act. Not sure how it can be ‘watered down’??

Haven't been following this too closely but would have thought the red lines for Unionism would be no Gaelic on road signs, no need to be able to speak it for civil service jobs, and no need to have to learn it at school. The DUP probably want to link it to Ulster Scots in a joint bill as a way of making sure none of those things ever happen, while SF want to uncouple it from Ulster Scots to push a bit further and drive in the thin end of the wedge that they can incrementally build up over time.

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9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Haven't been following this too closely but would have thought the red lines for Unionism would be no Gaelic on road signs, no need to be able to speak it for civil service jobs, and no need to have to learn it at school. The DUP probably want to link it to Ulster Scots in a joint bill as a way of making sure none of those things ever happen, while SF want to uncouple it from Ulster Scots to push a bit further and drive in the thin end of the wedge that they can incrementally build up over time.

The main thing a DUP spokesman said this morning was the signage. Symbolism is all. There wouldn't be a civil service if everyone had to be bilingual, I doubt very much if that's in the act. I think they want the right to be taught in Irish, not to force everyone to learn it.

Edited by welshbairn
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The main thing a DUP spokesman said this morning was the signage. Symbolism is all. There wouldn't be a civil service if everyone had to be bilingual, I doubt very much if that's in the act. I think they want the right to be taught in Irish, not to force everyone to learn it.

Interesting, wonder how many Parents/School Children would opt in and the advantages they would see in being taught in Irish through their formative years into adolescence?
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5 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:


Interesting, wonder how many Parents/School Children would opt in and the advantages they would see in being taught in Irish through their formative years into adolescence?

The town in North Wales where I lived for a while was mainly English speaking and being close to the border had as many English born as native Welsh. There was fully Welsh taught primary school and a English one,  but both were taught the other language as a second tongue. The secondary school was bilingual, you could choose what language to be taught in. A lot of my English friends sent their kids to the Welsh primary school, learning another language when you're young is supposed to make it much easier to learn more languages later on. They nearly all chose English for secondary school though, including the native Welsh. 

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2 hours ago, bob the tank said:

 

 


I've been doing my family tree for over a year, and need some church records to continue my search. This info doesn't seem to be available on the genealogy sites I'm using or in the local registrars, so where do you access it?

 

 

Scotland's People for church records but you have to pay for individual downloads. It's about 1.50 each it works out at I think.

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17 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

No but i will check it out. Genuinely find the origins of language stuff fascinating

 

Can't recommend this enough mate

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0141015934/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1518706034&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=david+crystal&dpPl=1&dpID=51tBUtYnyRL&ref=plSrch

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7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

The main thing a DUP spokesman said this morning was the signage. Symbolism is all. There wouldn't be a civil service if everyone had to be bilingual, I doubt very much if that's in the act. I think they want the right to be taught in Irish, not to force everyone to learn it.

I think that's already in place, there are plenty of Irish Language schools.

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On 2/14/2018 at 19:11, invergowrie arab said:

That's really interesting. I didn't realise that about the patronymic naming system but it's exactly the same in Gaelic. It's not until the Kirk started to keep records in the late 18th early 19th century that Gaels bothered with surnames. You were just John son of Donald.

When they did get round to it no one knew what their surname should be so they either stuck with their fathers name or just took their lairds name.

That's why your average shinty team has more coach wheels than surnames.

I was doing some family tree research and got back to 1830s Glenelg where out of a population of 2000 there are three surnames. Combine this with Gaelic only having about a dozen forenames means that even today in places like Barra or Uist many won't be known locally by their forename and surname but will have descriptive or nicknames like Black John, Tall Robert , Donald of the red hill etc or will be known locally by their patronymic name.

 

Who would have thought a man balancing bread on his head would have got us here.

The Faroese have/had a similar thing - I believe most people have surnames today, but they still have names like Jákup á Borg aka Jake fae the city. 

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14 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

What a bizarre post. It’s natural to be curious about your ancestors and it can be fun and interesting to find out what they did.

I'm not particularly curious about my ancestors, but a relation researched my mother's side of the family family tree, and got back to the 1600s IIRC. What they did for a living I've no idea or else can't remember*, this relation ( a cousin of my mothers) sent everyone a copy, but I don't know if I still have mine, but my "heritage" on my mother's side is 100% Scottish.

My father's side is Scottish/Dutch/German as far as I know. (Dutch and German great grandparents/great-great grandparents on my maternal grandmother's side. I think my father said Cattofield (in Aberdeen) was named after his grandfather/great grandfather, but I might be making that up, or he might have made that up!.)

But I wouldn't be obsessed with my "heritage", I was interested enough to know about the pubs and hotels both sets of my grandparents owned/rented, but I took it no further than that, I certainly wouldn't have researched back to the 1600s. (Maybe it was the 1700s, but it was quite impressive.)

* Farmers/crofters/agricultural workers, I think.

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36 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I'm not particularly curious about my ancestors, but a relation researched my mother's side of the family family tree, and got back to the 1600s IIRC. What they did for a living I've no idea or else can't remember*, this relation ( a cousin of my mothers) sent everyone a copy, but I don't know if I still have mine, but my "heritage" on my mother's side is 100% Scottish.

My father's side is Scottish/Dutch/German as far as I know. (Dutch and German great grandparents/great-great grandparents on my maternal grandmother's side. I think my father said Cattofield (in Aberdeen) was named after his grandfather/great grandfather, but I might be making that up, or he might have made that up!.)

But I wouldn't be obsessed with my "heritage", I was interested enough to know about the pubs and hotels both sets of my grandparents owned/rented, but I took it no further than that, I certainly wouldn't have researched back to the 1600s. (Maybe it was the 1700s, but it was quite impressive.)

* Farmers/crofters/agricultural workers, I think.

 

Aye it's not for everyone and I don't really care enough to put the effort in to find out either but I understand why people are so enthused about doing it.

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18 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

Aye it's not for everyone and I don't really care enough to put the effort in to find out either but I understand why people are so enthused about doing it.

My sister paid a couple of hundred to get my mum and dad's genes tested. I was against it in case we found out something awkward. Turns out we're all Scottish and there's a chance we'll get Alzheimers before we die. Waste of money imo.

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