invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Co.Down Hibee said: Unionists have always been against promoting the Irish language because to them it would be Northern Ireland losing part of its Britishness. The majority of people learning it probably don't class themselves as British of course. They should look across the water. Wales is Brexit as f**k. With my serious head on that is a very insecure identity you have if other people expressing theirs is that much of a threat (applies to all sides) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: They should look across the water. Wales is Brexit as f**k. With my serious head on that is a very insecure identity you have if other people expressing theirs is that much of a threat (applies to all sides) That tends to be Unionists for you, permanently feeling threatened, , Can't say I'm a huge supporter of an Irish language act,not opposed as such but in the grand scheme of things I'd rather the resource was put into studying other languages which would serve more purpose, Chinese, Russian or Japanese would be more useful than one you can only use in your own country,and only bits of it at that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 They should look across the water. Wales is Brexit as f**k. With my serious head on that is a very insecure identity you have if other people expressing theirs is that much of a threat (applies to all sides) https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-never-wanted-an-irish-language-act-1.3144266 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Co.Down Hibee said: That tends to be Unionists for you, permanently feeling threatened, , Can't say I'm a huge supporter of an Irish language act,not opposed as such but in the grand scheme of things I'd rather the resource was put into studying other languages which would serve more purpose, Chinese, Russian or Japanese would be more useful than one you can only use in your own country,and only bits of it at that. And everyone who speaks Irish speaks English, so why the need for an Irish Language Act? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: And everyone who speaks Irish speaks English, so why the need for an Irish Language Act? You could say the same in Wales and Scotland. Might cost a bit for translation and photocopying, but it's not a huge issue. Why don't the DUP just demand Scots translations as well if they feel threatened by it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 And everyone who speaks Irish speaks English, so why the need for an Irish Language Act? What’s the general consensus over there JG, do those without an axe to grind believe that cross party agreement to an ILA would get things moving again at Stormont? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: You could say the same in Wales and Scotland. Might cost a bit for translation and photocopying, but it's not a huge issue. Why don't the DUP just demand Scots translations as well if they feel threatened by it? From what I've heard, what Irish language activists want is Irish speakers in every doctor's surgery, every job centre, every hospital accident and emergency , every dental surgery, every housing executive office, every MoT centre. etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: And everyone who speaks Irish speaks English, so why the need for an Irish Language Act? So that Irish has parity of esteem with English and people who choose to live elements of their life in Irish, including in their dealings with the State, have the choice to. I can appreciate if people think that it is an indulgence but its a human rights issue for me. 7 minutes ago, Co.Down Hibee said: That tends to be Unionists for you, permanently feeling threatened, , Can't say I'm a huge supporter of an Irish language act,not opposed as such but in the grand scheme of things I'd rather the resource was put into studying other languages which would serve more purpose, Chinese, Russian or Japanese would be more useful than one you can only use in your own country,and only bits of it at that. This argument has been gone over a million times. Children who are bilingual are far more likely to take up additional languages as they grow. It is not a zero sum game, no school is choosing between Gaelic and Japanese teachers. This argument always seems to be based upon capitalist economics which seems quite sad to me that the sole function of linguistic education should be about creating business opportunities ( i know you aren't saying precisely that) instead of seeing an equal value to the literature, poetry and song of Gaelic. not to mention the importance of Gaelic knowledge in geography and history. However, if you do want to make an economic argument for it recent research has shown that Gaelic and other " indigenous languages" are revenue generators in terms of tourism as people (especially expats) want to hear the language, be told its stories etc etc Visit Scotland for example, after years of being a bit shit scared of Gaelic are now creating their own Gaelic strategy to capitalise on this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, RedRob72 said: What’s the general consensus over there JG, do those without an axe to grind believe that cross party agreement to an ILA would get things moving again at Stormont? Now, now Rab, everyone over here has an axe to grind! If there was cross party agreement I suppose there woud be an Irish Language Act, the devil would be in the detail (of the act). I think both Sinn Fein and the DUP have painted themselves into a corner over this and can't get out of it without losing face. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Now, now Rab, everyone over here has an axe to grind! If there was cross party agreement I suppose there woud be an Irish Language Act, the devil would be in the detail (of the act). I think both Sinn Fein and the DUP have painted themselves into a corner over this and can't get out of it without losing face. Fair do’s, I can only go with family and friends in Belfast/Antrim who apart from a couple of exceptions are happy to go with it, if it gets the show back on the road. All however are wary of the cost and extent that you mentioned back up the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It is quite funny how Sinn Fein are repeatedly backing progressive issues in their red lines though. Surely anyone that isn’t a raging reactionary must see it’s not a good look to be tagged as the anti-Irish/ anti-LGBT/ anti-abortion party or coalition? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It is quite funny how Sinn Fein are repeatedly backing progressive issues in their red lines though. Surely anyone that isn’t a raging reactionary must see it’s not a good look to be tagged as the anti-Irish/ anti-LGBT/ anti-abortion party or coalition? They (SF) know how to play the game, and have become experts at it, despite their true identity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 35 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: They (SF) know how to play the game, and have become experts at it, despite their true identity. What's that then.....? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Who gains more by not having a functioning Government at Stormont? Or loses less? Both sides seem to be happy about it, the language thing seems like a smoke screen. If I was a NI voter I'd be fucking raging with the incompetence and/or corruption over the Energy Scheme, never mind their representatives being AWOL during the Brexit debacle. Edited February 12, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: So that Irish has parity of esteem with English and people who choose to live elements of their life in Irish, including in their dealings with the State, have the choice to. I can appreciate if people think that it is an indulgence but its a human rights issue for me. Yes it's an indulgence and there's a hell of a lot more pressing human rights issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yes it's an indulgence and there's a hell of a lot more pressing human rights issues. That’s a lot of nonsense though as it’s not like pushing this issue to the side is going to have the reactionaries opposed to it cracking on with addressing more pressing human right’s issues. It’s a minor matter to some extent that doesn’t deserve the opposition it’s receiving and that’s on those opposing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Yes it's an indulgence and there's a hell of a lot more pressing human rights issues. There's no league table of human rights issues. You either have them or you don't. That's kind of the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: There's no league table of human rights issues. You either have them or you don't. That's kind of the point. No league table? Maybe not, but there’s some that I’d find more difficult to endure than others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: No league table? Maybe not, but there’s some that I’d find more difficult to endure than others. That's the beauty of universal human rights. The ignorance, prejudice and compete unawareness of privilege of people is not a factor in their application. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Your going to have to explain how it's a human rights thing, as far as I'm aware there isn't any rights that require anyone to conduct business with you in any particular language.And yes it's rather ridiculous either side is making a big issue out of it, it isn't an issue that has a huge effect either way. Crazy a parliment shouldn't function over a tiny thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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