Swello Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I'm trying to think of other players recently that have had as much impact on the team in such a short time than Carson and Hartley - the former in a very understated way, the latter very obviously. Although he obviously isn't in the same class, Carson reminds me of Randolph in that it's not all about Hollywood saves - good positioning and decision making avoid the defensive panic stations in the first place and having him out of the team has only underlined what a reliable presence he is. I like Hartley mostly because he seems like a traditional fucking nutter centre half but in his time here, he has never been outclassed regardless of who he is up against. In record time, he's become my favourite player in the team this year (closely followed by Campbell) and I'll be the first in with a tear stained rant if he goes back to warm Blackpool's bench after the next three games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Swello said: I like Hartley mostly because he seems like a traditional fucking nutter centre half but in his time here, he has never been outclassed regardless of who he is up against. In record time, he's become my favourite player in the team this year (closely followed by Campbell) and I'll be the first in with a tear stained rant if he goes back to warm Blackpool's bench after the next three games. Hartley is an important player and miles better than any other defender we have but Andrew Davies won the important headers against Ross County that cost us a couple of goals. Davies certainly got the better of Hartley that day. Having said that if Hartley were not to return for the second half of the season we'd have serious problems in every area of the park instead of just two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Swello said: I'm trying to think of other players recently that have had as much impact on the team in such a short time than Carson and Hartley - the former in a very understated way, the latter very obviously. Although he obviously isn't in the same class, Carson reminds me of Randolph in that it's not all about Hollywood saves - good positioning and decision making avoid the defensive panic stations in the first place and having him out of the team has only underlined what a reliable presence he is. I like Hartley mostly because he seems like a traditional fucking nutter centre half but in his time here, he has never been outclassed regardless of who he is up against. In record time, he's become my favourite player in the team this year (closely followed by Campbell) and I'll be the first in with a tear stained rant if he goes back to warm Blackpool's bench after the next three games. Hartley's a season long loan so unless there's a break clause (which is only usually mutually agreed if a player isn't actually playing) or a recall option your tears are safe until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crilly Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I think its highly unlikely that we'll have all our injured players back for Saturday. Even one or two would be good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 14:32, Al B said: Yeah there's a lot of hand-wringing going on along the lines of "whats happened to all this strength in depth we've been hearing all about?!?!". Strength in depth means that if we a decent player out up top/at the back/in the middle of the park, we have someone decent to bring in to be able to cope. Having them all out at the same time is a totally different bag of sandwiches...that would require a full 2nd string of comparable quality, and that's never going to happen. I disagree with this. For me 'having strength in depth' means one thing. You have players not playing who are pushing the first team players for a spot in the starting line up. We don't have that. We have been depending on a small core of players to make the difference between being slightly above average and being well below average. Players as poor as Rose, Dunne and McHugh have more or less been guaranteed a starting place all season. Players who have been on the fringes haven't come in and really staked a claim in the team. Can you really say guys like Bigirimana, Grimshaw, Frear, Fisher, Petravicius etc have really put a marker down for first team selection? For me they haven't and that extends well beyond the current injury crisis. The sole exception was Allan Campbell who was surely on the fringes at the beginning of the season but came on in two matches and turned the games on their head. He forced himself into the team. No one else has done that and made the manager think "well I have to change my line up cos this guy is too good to leave out". Even Craig Tanner, who I think is one of the better players not starting regularly, has disappointed slightly when starting matches after impressive sub appearances. Clearly no one expect a team like ours to lose someone like Louis Moult and it to have no effect but let's be realistic about this. Cadden has missed 2 matches out of a poor run of 9 matches. Carson has missed 3, Hartley 3. There were problems even before the injuries to these players, one of them being an over dependence on certain players. These guys just can't pull the majority of the rest of the players over the line week after week, even when they are fit. There needs to be a much stronger group effort. There was also a narrative at the beginning of the season, espoused by some, that Robinson had done a stellar job in rebuilding the squad. That seems to me to have been based more on who he got rid of, rather than who he brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Hartley is an important player and miles better than any other defender we have but Andrew Davies won the important headers against Ross County that cost us a couple of goals. Davies certainly got the better of Hartley that day. Having said that if Hartley were not to return for the second half of the season we'd have serious problems in every area of the park instead of just two. True - but my point was more that he looks good at our level, not that he'll never make a mistake or have a bad game. 21 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Hartley's a season long loan so unless there's a break clause (which is only usually mutually agreed if a player isn't actually playing) or a recall option your tears are safe until then. I had actually thought there was a break clause or a decision to be made in January but I probably imagined it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Swello said: I had actually thought there was a break clause or a decision to be made in January but I probably imagined it. Yeah, from what I can tell the decision that seems to be being made relates to him signing permanently. Whether he does or not shouldn't affect his loan contract. I could of course be wrong on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossDee01 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Motherwell have only beaten us once at Fir Park since November 2004. I know we've spent a chunk of that in different leagues, but it's still 8 games. Their last win coming in December 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: I disagree with this. For me 'having strength in depth' means one thing. You have players not playing who are pushing the first team players for a spot in the starting line up. We don't have that. We have been depending on a small core of players to make the difference between being slightly above average and being well below average. Players as poor as Rose, Dunne and McHugh have more or less been guaranteed a starting place all season. Players who have been on the fringes haven't come in and really staked a claim in the team. Can you really say guys like Bigirimana, Grimshaw, Frear, Fisher, Petravicius etc have really put a marker down for first team selection? For me they haven't and that extends well beyond the current injury crisis. The sole exception was Allan Campbell who was surely on the fringes at the beginning of the season but came on in two matches and turned the games on their head. He forced himself into the team. No one else has done that and made the manager think "well I have to change my line up cos this guy is too good to leave out". Even Craig Tanner, who I think is one of the better players not starting regularly, has disappointed slightly when starting matches after impressive sub appearances. Clearly no one expect a team like ours to lose someone like Louis Moult and it to have no effect but let's be realistic about this. Cadden has missed 2 matches out of a poor run of 9 matches. Carson has missed 3, Hartley 3. There were problems even before the injuries to these players, one of them being an over dependence on certain players. These guys just can't pull the majority of the rest of the players over the line week after week, even when they are fit. There needs to be a much stronger group effort. There was also a narrative at the beginning of the season, espoused by some, that Robinson had done a stellar job in rebuilding the squad. That seems to me to have been based more on who he got rid of, rather than who he brought in. You always argue your point well but I always get the impression that your expectations as to what Motherwell are capable of are on a different level to mine Strength in Depth has different meanings to different people as it is a relative, not an absolute term. At Motherwell or Dundee, etc , it basically means "having people on the bench who are decent and can cover for (not replace) a 1st choice player" and at Man City or PSG, it means "hunners of internationalists". In Motherwell terms, when we look at the bench (or even the players that can't get on the bench) now in comparison to last season - it is night and day. Given a diddy team budget (we pay the 2nd lowest average wage in the league), we will *always* rely on a core of better players with a supporting cast of variable quality/consistency - it simply isn't within our means to have it any other way. Strength in depth doesn't mean that we can replace 4 or 5 of our top players with like-for-like quality in a given game as it's simply not going to happen. Ever. In terms of the rebuild of the squad - I'll happily say that I think it has been an excellent effort and above my expectations so far. There is an inherent risk in every signing and when you are forced (due to the negligence of the previous incumbent) to make the sheer number of signings that we had to in one window, the level of risk multiplies (especially in the market that we are in). Given that it's not a realistic prospect to expect every signing to be (a) a first choice player and (b) an unqualified "success", I'm not sure how it can be judged as anything other than a good rebuild based on what has happened so far. From a standing start, this squad has been in and around the top half of the table all season, have been to a cup final and have beaten or taken points off the best teams in the league. I don't think it was the final act or anywhere near perfect and I'm interested in January and next summer to see where we go next - but I'm happy so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Swello said: Strength in depth doesn't mean that we can replace 4 or 5 of our top players with like-for-like quality in a given game as it's simply not going to happen. Ever. Agree with everything in the post above and this is largely my take on things as well and not just relating to Motherwell either. If you were to remove Lewis, Arnason, Shinnie and Christie along with say May or McLean from Aberdeen's team then chances are it'd affect if not their results then almost certainly their performances. Broadly speaking there are a few points in YB!'s post that I agree with, perhaps not strongly, but the fact that with our best players available we've seen guys like Bigirimana and Tanner have excellent performances off the bench yet offer nothing when they start the following week (more than once) I find more curious than anything else. It's almost as if we're still working out how to fit a number of our players effectively into the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I reckon Trevor Carson shags Saturdays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gianfranco said: I reckon Trevor Carson shags Saturdays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikethedee Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just seen on the match preview that Motherwell's record win is against the DABS. Well done (if you'll pardon the pun). It'll still be a 1-1 shitefest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chateau Lafite Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Anybody going down for this? Might have to head west to avoid the horror of a packed Tesco, the hell of trolley wars in Asda and I havent a scoobie of what happens in Sainsbury's or Morrisons as the hungry people battle for Turkey and mince pies. Watching your footbal team has got to be a better option. And I think we have a chance given the record at Fir Park, Motherwell's form and its about time FEB blootered in another belter, a la United or the Celtic last season. See you there Dark Blues and Claret and Amber chaps. Its got to be better, even a shit fest double shut out, compared to supermarket trauma.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 That should have been the pre match promotion from both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eindhovendee Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 There's not much nastiness going on, and Well fans are writing essays, is everybody OK? xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 f**k these weegie cunters. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Is the poster guy still doing his thing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, Daydream said: Is the poster guy still doing his thing?? Why yes, yes I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18May1991 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, eindhovendee said: There's not much nastiness going on, and Well fans are writing essays, is everybody OK? xx ‘Tis the season of peace and goodwill to all...... .....f**k you and your fanny of a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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