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On 27/11/2017 at 16:13, Flash said:

Looking at the points earned solely by the strikers (what we actually got vs the points we would have got had they not scored) their goals have added 10 points.

(3 games were draws turned into wins, 1 defeat turned into into win and 1 defeat into draw 2+2+2+3+1)

Looking at points earned solely by the defenders, their goals have added 6 points.

(3 draws into wins 2+2+2).  So, without those goals we would be on 15, the same points as Dumbarton because they would have 1 more.

Overall, the strikers have scored 12 goals, defenders have scored 7 and midfielders have scored 2.

It is perhaps surprising in a squad containing Dobbie, Lyle, Kane, Dykes, McFadden and Stirling, that the defenders have scored half as many goals as the strikers and midfield combined.  Or, put another way, Dobbie, Lyle and Kane have scored 10 goals. Fordyce, Kerr and Brownlie have scored 7.

Edited to fix adding.

Eta if you take Brechin and Falkirk out of the results, we have scored 8 goals in 9 games v the others. The strikers have scored 3, midfield 1 and defenders 4. 9 points from those 9 games.

 

32 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:



I think our threat from the back has possibly papered over the cracks this season. If anyone can be arsed I'd be interested to know how many goals/points have been thanks to set-pieces

Posted the above before the Dumbarton game. Without goals from defenders at set-pieces we would be 6 points worse off. You could argue 7 points if a Dumbarton player hadn’t scored an og from a corner.  So, including that one, without the set-piece goals from defenders and opposition players, we would be 8th on 16 points. Dumbarton would have 21 points.

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If my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle.

Last I heard goals from set pieces were perfectly legal. You play to your strengths and this season we have defenders that can score goals. Surely in anyones eyes that is a positive?

Our midfielders don’t score enough goals. Surely that’s a far more legitimate complaint for those that like to highlight flaws?

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This is a must win. Not only that but we could be doing with putting in a decent performance too, confidence can't be too high at the moment and we'll need it with the next few games coming up. 

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2 hours ago, palmy_cammy said:

Not for the first time, I'm struggling to understand where all the pessimism amongst our fanbase is coming from.  Whilst it's fair to say we aren't blowing teams away with dazzling displays of footballing genius, equally we have been competitive in all but two games that I can think of.  The recent 3-0 home defeat to Livingston, and a 3-1 trouncing from St Mirren in Paisley which in truth should have been more.  Aside from those two fixtures we have given as good as we have got, and as pointed out by Sloop John B in the Queens thread, this is our best start to a season since 2014/15.  The 23 points we have picked up after 15 games has only been bettered twice in the last ten years.

Agreed, except I'd go further and say only Livingston in the 3-0 really thoroughly deserved their margin of victory. Indeed I'd argue perhaps that the 2-2 at Livi earlier this season was the next most we've been dominated even if we did get a draw out of it after Gallagher made an backside of a clearance and Lyle lobbed the keeper from outside the box and then Andy Stirling cracked one top corner from 25 yards.

I disagree about the St Mirren game. St Mirren were clinical and deserved to win for it but they had I think 4 or 5 shots all day that day and three went in, including one that basically went through our goalkeeper. I think we competed fine in that one too.

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1 hour ago, palmy_cammy said:

If my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle.

Last I heard goals from set pieces were perfectly legal. You play to your strengths and this season we have defenders that can score goals. Surely in anyones eyes that is a positive?

Our midfielders don’t score enough goals. Surely that’s a far more legitimate complaint for those that like to highlight flaws?

Where did I say they don’t count or that it isn’t a good thing to score from set plays? It is, though, a measure of the relative performance of the strikers and midfield that a high proportion of goals have come from defenders.  And if we were relying solely on the strikers and midfield to get goals, we would be 8th. 19QOS19 suggested that goals from defenders are papering over the cracks and he is probably right. If we had last season’s defence, we would probably be in deep trouble.

And it is a little worrying that Fordyce will be out for weeks and Kerr will likely be away at the end of the month. Apart from their defensive qualities, they have contributed 6 goals between them. Which is 2 more than Kane, Dykes, Rankin, Jacobs, Stirling, Tapping, Murray and McFadden combined. Excluding Tapping’s og, of course.

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Play for a free kick within 30 yards of our goal and it'll go in if on target.

Higgy needs time on the bench to sort himself out, Aird should start.

It's a must win in my opinion, though I have no confidence we will.

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2 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

Personally it's the style of football we're playing that's making it a chore to go and watch just now. I don't expect Barcelona quality but equally I don't think it should be accepted that this level is only good for the route 1 approach. Even if the latter was the case, my biggest problem is we don't have the players capable of performing that system successfully and yet Naysmith has persisted with it.

 

2 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

he fact Dobbie and Lyle don't look as threatening this year speaks volumes for me and is a huge frustration. Some may say it's their age but I say it's because the system doesn't aid in getting the best from them.

Absolutely spot on.

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6 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

Personally it's the style of football we're playing that's making it a chore to go and watch just now. I don't expect Barcelona quality but equally I don't think it should be accepted that this level is only good for the route 1 approach. Even if the latter was the case, my biggest problem is we don't have the players capable of performing that system successfully and yet Naysmith has persisted with it.

I think our threat from the back has possibly papered over the cracks this season. If anyone can be arsed I'd be interested to know how many goals/points have been thanks to set-pieces.

As Sloop has pointed out, on paper it's been a cracking start but the reality is we aren't that good. Before a ball was kicked I said the league would be won by the least worst side and nothing I've seen this season has made me change my mind. I can't recall a poorer division in quite some time. So even though we've accumulated more points I don't think it's crazy to suggest that the quality has dropped.

The fact Dobbie and Lyle don't look as threatening this year speaks volumes for me and is a huge frustration. Some may say it's their age but I say it's because the system doesn't aid in getting the best from them.

 

Whilst I would absolutely like to see us get more on the ball, few teams are really playing free flowing attacking football in this league. Livi at Almondvale launched it forward at every opportunity, Inverness have picked up form almost entirely on the basis that they have a decent defence rather than the mummified remains of John Baird.  Dundee United have scored less than us. Dunfermline have been very inconsistent. Dumbarton and Morton aren't ever going to be  expansive sides either.  Not sure whether it's just a trend in the league to go back to basics and focus on defending first, but you look at the way that Falkirk have been sliced open repeatedly and perhaps it's for a reason that caution is currently fashionable   A lack of quality midfielders, teams being extra familiar  with each other through scouting and multiple games, the relative parity of sides just cancelling each other out and a lack of prime Gabriel Batistuta to break teams down could be conducive to less entertaining games.

Fowlers last season was chore but in the opposite  to Naysmith where we had the ball a lot but had no idea what to do with it.  At the moment I'm more tolerant of Lyndon Dykes potentially getting lasting brain damage than I was of having to watch Mark Millar pass it sideways for Jake Pickard to try and pass it 6 feet without falling over. Maybe I've finally mellowed or have just been emotionally  scarred that much that anything moderately competent will do.

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Just play 4-5-1 for the first half and we will be fucked. It really is that simple.

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Funnily enough if Jake was still here I wouldn't mind him getting a run out, I would like a midfielder to be signed in the window but preferably two if we can find a club daft enough to take Tapping. 

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1 hour ago, Broony88 said:

Funnily enough if Jake was still here I wouldn't mind him getting a run out, I would like a midfielder to be signed in the window but preferably two if we can find a club daft enough to take Tapping. 

 

There is a very good reason why he's apparently playing for a side that's second bottom of the 9th tier of English Football.

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There is a very good reason why he's apparently playing for a side that's second bottom of the 9th tier of English Football.


Oddly enough I was looking the other day to see where he is but couldn't find anything. It just said he was a free agent. Who is he playing with?

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11 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

I can't recall a poorer division in quite some time. 

This is an absolute staple that people come out with literally every season.

This time though, it's true.

 

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36 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

 


Oddly enough I was looking the other day to see where he is but couldn't find anything. It just said he was a free agent. Who is he playing with?

 

I had a glance earlier and it's according to wiki and their website Washington FC of the Northern League Division One along with Pascal Chimbonda of all people.

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Cheers. I see Jonathan Tiffoney plays for them as well but don't know if it's the same one who's played up here.

Also noticed a Rhys Evans is there who apparently played for our U20s as well!

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Probably our first 'must win' of the season so far if we are going to stay in the hunt for a decent play off place. Slightly better from us up at Dundee but the bottom line is that's now one win in eight, a run which has featured some putrid performances also. Possibly a bit of pressure on AJ off the back of this? Would certainly say more dropped points this week could cause a fair bit of restlessness from the home stands, if they manage to get through the turnstiles for a change 8) 

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1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

Cheers. I see Jonathan Tiffoney plays for them as well but don't know if it's the same one who's played up here.

Also noticed a Rhys Evans is there who apparently played for our U20s as well!

Rhys Evans was there but moved on to Newcastle Benfield last month. Washington are partly run by the agency they are all signed to.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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Everyone says we played better against United, which makes me so grateful to have missed the Dumbarton game. We must have been absolutely chronic.

Other than some decent stuff against Livi, we've not played well once since getting stuffed at home by United. I think Cardle got injured at just the wrong time. He was flying at the start of the season and he's been way off the pace ever since he came back. That was always going to be the issue when we went into the season with no depth though; when players get injured or are in poor form, we don't have anybody to come in and replace them.

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The fact the top end of the table is so competitive means despite winning just once in the last games we're still in a perfectly decent position. If we can grind out a few points in the next month and add a few faces in January we'll be fine. We've picked a good time for a slump. 

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