Kelty Hearts & the EOS League

[cowdenbeath]

17 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Ultimate success could be building the club to: 900+ playing members from kids to pensioners including boys and girls. Strong U20s and ams teams, a top level women's team,  First team pushing for promotion to the football league. Great facilities. Full time employees serving the community. Annual turnover £900k+. Football changing and improving people's lives.

Need a vision, great people, critical mass and financial support.  Aim for all that and if you don't succeed then fail trying.

So if landing a £100k+ tie with Rangers (or Celtic / Hibs/ Hearts) isnt exciting enough for your town, join the pyramid and do a Spartans.

 

 

Spartans are the bench mark for the community stuff.

[bluedragon]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, its a starter.  Out of interest, who abolished amateur status in England, was it the FA?   Perhaps the SFA simply need to abolish Senior/Junior/Amateur with everyone classed as "fitba"......

The FA decided to abolish amateur status as at the top level it was, as Cowdenbeath says, a sham. After the change everyone became a “player”. The FA Permit arrangement (similar to Junior re-instatement) for a professional to return to amateur football disappeared as a result.

The Isthmian League successfully moved from being the premier amateur league for London (and surrounds) clubs to one of the three regional feeder leagues into the National Conference created in 1979 that led to the Pyramid. The cross-over in catchment areas between the Isthmian and Southern League appears to have successfully evolved over time.

[Sergeant Wilson]

48 minutes ago, bluedragon said:

The FA decided to abolish amateur status as at the top level it was, as Cowdenbeath says, a sham. After the change everyone became a “player”. The FA Permit arrangement (similar to Junior re-instatement) for a professional to return to amateur football disappeared as a result.

The Isthmian League successfully moved from being the premier amateur league for London (and surrounds) clubs to one of the three regional feeder leagues into the National Conference created in 1979 that led to the Pyramid. The cross-over in catchment areas between the Isthmian and Southern League appears to have successfully evolved over time.

Movement between the regional leagues is mostly quite smooth when they do the annual realignment to account for promotion and relegation. (With a few exceptions ) The new arrangements next season should make better again. Like many have said someone needs to take charge.

I've followed junior football seriously for about 10 years now. I couldn't tell you what Tom Johntone, or the Robertson guy, looked or sounded like, they are totally anonymous.

[stanley]

1 hour ago, bluedragon said:

The FA decided to abolish amateur status as at the top level it was, as Cowdenbeath says, a sham. After the change everyone became a “player”. The FA Permit arrangement (similar to Junior re-instatement) for a professional to return to amateur football disappeared as a result.

The Isthmian League successfully moved from being the premier amateur league for London (and surrounds) clubs to one of the three regional feeder leagues into the National Conference created in 1979 that led to the Pyramid. The cross-over in catchment areas between the Isthmian and Southern League appears to have successfully evolved over time.

The Northern Premier League and Southern League became feeders in 1979 but I don't think the Isthmian League became a feeder until a few years later in the 80s.

[bluedragon]

16 hours ago, stanley said:

The Northern Premier League and Southern League became feeders in 1979 but I don't think the Isthmian League became a feeder until a few years later in the 80s.

Thanks for the clarification Stanley. The Northern Premier League and Southern Leagues were feeder leagues from the start in 1978/79. I believe that that was pressure from some Isthmian League clubs for their league to have the same status. Two of their top clubs (Enfield and Dagenham) left to join the new league in the 1981/82 season and that, amongst other things, led to the league becoming a feeder league at the end of the 1983/84 season. 1983/84 champions Sutton United did not take up the option and so Wycombe Wanderers took their place.

There are probably more parallels from the English non-league game and how it tackled the abolition of amateur football and established a pyramid than I first thought.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 22/12/2017 at 04:55, cmontheloknow said:

Ah that is good, it has come down a fair bit. Pollok would struggle to extend the current pitch though (102x64yds or 93x58m)

With entry level you can get into the lower divisions of the SPFL assuming you could install floodlights, so I don't think the pitch is an issue any more unless you made it all the way to the top flight where I think you only need bronze? They watered down the requirements in a big way when the SPFL was formed. Now all you need to do is persuade a fanbase that is skewed heavily towards the OAP generation to go for it, which is probably the more difficult part. 

[cmontheloknow]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

With entry level you can get into the lower divisions of the SPFL assuming you could install floodlights, so I don't think the pitch is an issue any more unless you made it all the way to the top flight where I think you only need bronze? They watered down the requirements in a big way when the SPFL was formed. Now all you need to do is persuade a fanbase that is skewed heavily towards the OAP generation to go for it, which is probably the more difficult part. 

Having worked the gates at Newlandsfield, the OAP % was never more than a third. A myth.

[Glenconner]

2 hours ago, Bishoptonbankie said:

If you count an OAP as anyone over 95 then yes i’d completely agree. Some of the lok fans are so old they floated the idea of a pyramid league to King Rameses, who took it literally.

Ouch.....

[bluedragon]

On 23/12/2017 at 09:17, bluedragon said:

Thanks for the clarification Stanley. The Northern Premier League and Southern Leagues were feeder leagues from the start in 1978/79. I believe that that was pressure from some Isthmian League clubs for their league to have the same status. Two of their top clubs (Enfield and Dagenham) left to join the new league in the 1981/82 season and that, amongst other things, led to the league becoming a feeder league at the end of the 1983/84 season. 1983/84 champions Sutton United did not take up the option and so Wycombe Wanderers took their place.

There are probably more parallels from the English non-league game and how it tackled the abolition of amateur football and established a pyramid than I first thought.

Another learning point from the English non-league Pyramid is how they have listened to clubs over travelling issues. From next season a new and fourth feeder league at Step 3 will be introduced to include clubs in the wider midlands of England. Before clubs in this band across the country went either north or south giving them increased travelling costs. It will probably help clubs in the extreme north and south who will have their southern and northern boundaries respectively brought  closer to home.

Step 1 – National League – mostly full-time clubs

Step 2 – National League – north & south divisions

Step 3 – Southern League, Isthmian League, Northern Premier League and the new midlands division.

They make it look so easy.

[bluedragon]

Here is another working of my "Starter for 10". 

Season 2018/19

Pre-season

At its AGM in June 2018  the SJFA approves a change to its membership requirements to ensure automatic entry back into Junior football for clubs holding a current SFA licence relegated from the Lowland League. It is difficult to see a reason to oppose this as by definition  a strong club is entering the Junior ranks.

Promotion

The club that gets promoted into the Lowland League should be the winner of a play-off competition between the champions of:

1.      East Superleague

2.      West Superleague Premier Division

3.      East of Scotland League

4.      South of Scotland League.

To be eligible to compete in the play-offs the champion clubs from the four feeder leagues must:

1.      have an SFA club licence; and

2.      commit to joining the Lowland League if successful.

To make this easier any club that believes that they can meet these requirements if they were the champion club need to advise the SFA by 30 November 2018 .

In December 2018 and January 2019 the SFA will meet those clubs and put any conditions in place. For example, a club might be in the final stages of applying for a club licence, finishing ground improvements, etc. that need to be completed. All conditions must be met by 31 March.

On 1 April clubs that are eligible for the play-offs are announced as the season enters its final stages. Given the stage of the season advance planning for probable play-off matches can take place.

The season finishes. Play-offs take place, if there is more than one qualifying club, and promotion to and relegation from the Lowland League.

A Junior club that is promoted to the Lowland League will become a Senior club.

A relegated club will have the opportunity to join the feeder league appropriate to their geographical location. In most cases this be straightforward but ultimately the SFA will need to be the final arbiter.

How would this have worked In the 2016/17 season?

There would have been no play-offs as Edusport Academy from the South of Scotland League would have been the only club to qualify and would have got automatic promotion.

Kelty Hearts would have probably thought that did not have a realistic chance of achieving their SFA Licence by the 31 March 2017 deadline and so may not have applied by 30 November 2016. However, they would believe that they would certainly be able to apply by the 2017/18 deadline date of 30 November 2017.

Linlithgow Rose would have been in a position to apply by 30 November 2016 but their final league position would have ruled them out of a play-off place.

At the other end Preston Athletic were relegated. The club of course has played in the Junior grade in the past. You would hope the club’s wishes would be paramount but on the other hand the SFA would be keen to maintain/improve the strength of the East of Scotland League and indeed where Preston played before the Lowland League. You would hope these discussions would produce a mutually acceptable solution.

[Jambo'ness]

2 hours ago, bluedragon said:

Here is another working of my "Starter for 10". 

Season 2018/19

Pre-season

At its AGM in June 2018  the SJFA approves a change to its membership requirements to ensure automatic entry back into Junior football for clubs holding a current SFA licence relegated from the Lowland League. It is difficult to see a reason to oppose this as by definition  a strong club is entering the Junior ranks.

Promotion

The club that gets promoted into the Lowland League should be the winner of a play-off competition between the champions of:

1.      East Superleague

2.      West Superleague Premier Division

3.      East of Scotland League

4.      South of Scotland League.

To be eligible to compete in the play-offs the champion clubs from the four feeder leagues must:

1.      have an SFA club licence; and

2.      commit to joining the Lowland League if successful.

To make this easier any club that believes that they can meet these requirements if they were the champion club need to advise the SFA by 30 November 2018 .

In December 2018 and January 2019 the SFA will meet those clubs and put any conditions in place. For example, a club might be in the final stages of applying for a club licence, finishing ground improvements, etc. that need to be completed. All conditions must be met by 31 March.

On 1 April clubs that are eligible for the play-offs are announced as the season enters its final stages. Given the stage of the season advance planning for probable play-off matches can take place.

The season finishes. Play-offs take place, if there is more than one qualifying club, and promotion to and relegation from the Lowland League.

A Junior club that is promoted to the Lowland League will become a Senior club.

A relegated club will have the opportunity to join the feeder league appropriate to their geographical location. In most cases this be straightforward but ultimately the SFA will need to be the final arbiter.

How would this have worked In the 2016/17 season?

There would have been no play-offs as Edusport Academy from the South of Scotland League would have been the only club to qualify and would have got automatic promotion.

Kelty Hearts would have probably thought that did not have a realistic chance of achieving their SFA Licence by the 31 March 2017 deadline and so may not have applied by 30 November 2016. However, they would believe that they would certainly be able to apply by the 2017/18 deadline date of 30 November 2017.

Linlithgow Rose would have been in a position to apply by 30 November 2016 but their final league position would have ruled them out of a play-off place.

At the other end Preston Athletic were relegated. The club of course has played in the Junior grade in the past. You would hope the club’s wishes would be paramount but on the other hand the SFA would be keen to maintain/improve the strength of the East of Scotland League and indeed where Preston played before the Lowland League. You would hope these discussions would produce a mutually acceptable solution.

Your example shows how much is still to be done to co-ordinate a national change, rather than a one-off club doing its own thing.

A little problem with play-offs could potentially be the late stage that the Junior leagues could be clinched, due to no structured fixture lists.

[AlanCamelonfan]

23 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

Your example shows how much is still to be done to co-ordinate a national change, rather than a one-off club doing its own thing.

A little problem with play-offs could potentially be the late stage that the Junior leagues could be clinched, due to no structured fixture lists.

also what league teams go into when relegated eosfl or ersjfa. Complete farce it would have to be a major change. That is just a disgrace

[quickoverayard]

Have Kelty played Lothian yet ?

[heedthebaa]

8 minutes ago, quickoverayard said:

Have Kelty played Lothian yet ?

Lothian put Kelty out the Scottish cup 0 1

[quickoverayard]

Lothian put Kelty out the Scottish cup 0 1

Decent side. What about in league?

[heedthebaa]

11 minutes ago, quickoverayard said:

20 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

Lothian put Kelty out the Scottish cup 0 1

Decent side. What about in league?

Both league games are to play, @HibeeJibee might be able to give you dates, I’d think as near to the end of season as possible, just to make it spicy 

[RobM]

On 24/12/2017 at 11:03, bluedragon said:

Another learning point from the English non-league Pyramid is how they have listened to clubs over travelling issues. From next season a new and fourth feeder league at Step 3 will be introduced to include clubs in the wider midlands of England. Before clubs in this band across the country went either north or south giving them increased travelling costs. It will probably help clubs in the extreme north and south who will have their southern and northern boundaries respectively brought  closer to home.

Step 1 – National League – mostly full-time clubs

Step 2 – National League – north & south divisions

Step 3 – Southern League, Isthmian League, Northern Premier League and the new midlands division.

They make it look so easy.

They still won't get Northern League clubs going into the NPL in any great numbers.

[Appraisal]

Talbot are interested “fact” plans already proposed are as follows,

1. social club & changing rooms to be re-located behind the main stand

2. Second food stall placed at Bank end

3. Deal in place with local supermarket for big game parking

4. Enclosure to replace relocated changing rooms/ social club to run length behind goals

5. Additional cover to left and right of central enclosure opposite main stand ,

[HibeeJibee]

12 hours ago, heedthebaa said:

Both league games are to play, @HibeeJibee might be able to give you dates, I’d think as near to the end of season as possible, just to make it spicy 

LTHV v Kelty is January 20th. Kelty v LTHV is still undated.

LTHV v Kelty in League Cup SF is Wednesday 14th February.

http://eosfl.com/content.php?pg=matchlge&pd=1044&frt=fixtures

http://www.keltyhearts.co.uk/resultsfixtures/4593919536

[bluedragon]

12 hours ago, RobM said:

They still won't get Northern League clubs going into the NPL in any great numbers.

You could be right. There is only one North East club (South Shields) playing in the next league up (Northern Premier League North Division), with no local derbies and their nearest opponents are Kendal 100 miles away.  It would be an expensive business to move up.

Irrespective how you draw the boundaries today the North East will have relatively few clubs at the top level (Steps 1-4) in the English Non-League Pyramid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but had the Northern League accepted one of the invitations to became a feeder into the new Alliance Premier League in the late 1970’s/early 1980’s today the North East clubs would be playing in the Northern League (at Step 3) with a direct route to the National League North for its champions.  I do not know all the arguments for and against the Northern League’s decision but I do know it has made it far more difficult today for ambitious North East clubs to progress.

There are some parallels with Kelty Hearts. In the North East to progress a club needs to be promoted into a league at Step 4 with a large geographical area with no local derbies. It is a big financial commitment. The administrators have a responsibility to make it easier not harder for clubs to progress, however, today they are hindered by decisions made almost 40 years ago. Junior football is in the position today that the Northern League was in all those years ago.