8MileBU Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 It hasnt been like that though. Lithgae have their licence for years and havent managed to win the league since. If the pyramid was that great an attraction lithgae would have shifted. I personally think lithgae have best of both worlds. Super league is more competitive than lowland league and the junior cup is by far best cup comp. Senior cup by far the best money earner though. That’s more down to the in-fighting, in-house politics and the managerial merry-go-round that has been Linlithgow Rose in recent years. When everything’s settled, and everyone’s getting along, the Rose will be up there challenging for the league, as it looks like we’ll be seeing them do this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8MileBU Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 Mile, The Superleague is a decent standard and has some players capable of playing at a much higher level although I doubt some would welcome the travel for probably not much more coin. Yes the Superleague is a decent standard, but from what I’m seeing week-in week-out, it’s definitely in decline and has been for a while. I’m not just basing this on Bo’ness’ lack of success in recent years, but in general, the Superleague is nowhere near as good as it was say, maybe 5 or 6 years ago and the EOS/LL seems to be the place a lot of players that might’ve normally played Junior want to go now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefc Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, 8MileBU said: Yes the Superleague is a decent standard, but from what I’m seeing week-in week-out, it’s definitely in decline and has been for a while. I’m not just basing this on Bo’ness’ lack of success in recent years, but in general, the Superleague is nowhere near as good as it was say, maybe 5 or 6 years ago and the EOS/LL seems to be the place a lot of players that might’ve normally played Junior want to go now. Just on your assesment on where players are choosing to go and the quality of some teams, Lothain Thistle HV beat Bonnyrigg R 3-1 in a friendly last night. Thats them beat Boness in a friendly pre-season away from home, beat us at our patch in the Scottish and battered Stirling Albion away from home. Having seen them a couple fo times they are a top team with at the very least half a dozen players who could easily play in SPFL1, the same can be said with Spartans also who we have played this season. These clubs along with East Stirling, East Kilbride and BSC Glasgow among others are strengthening every year and with the guaranteed £20k minimum per season over SJFA clubs the gaps only going to get wider which in turn will dilute the quality especially in the East region. Its worth noting these clubs have already invested in their grounds and are almost at a stage where you could argue that their finances can now go towards bettering their squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell1 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 On 18/12/2017 at 17:54, Burnie_man said: On the much vaunted myth regarding players at the cost of facilities, here’s some improvements in the old East Region off the top of my head over the last 20 years, by clubs who have not benefited from Scottish Cup cash (apart from one game for Bathgate). Might be more I’ve missed; Blackburn Utd: New ground, lights, 3G Dunbar Utd: New ground, lights Newtongrange: New ground, lights West Calder Utd: New ground Broxburn Ath: Ground rebuilt, lights, 3G Tranent: New pavilion, pitch, other improvements Musselburgh Athletic: Extensive renovations Sauchie: New Stand, lights Easthouses: New stand, lights Bathgate Thistle: New enclosure, already had lights Pumpherston: Renovated enclosure Fauldhouse: Improvements to enclosure, pitchside barrier renewed Dalkeith: Lights, new enclosure and pavilion Haddington: New pitchside barrier, new pavilion Penicuik Athletic: New lights Whitburn: Seated stand I’m sure someone can come up with a similar list in the West Region. In times gone by a lot of money has been wasted on players whilst playing in decrepit holes, that changed a while back. Each one of the grounds mentioned above is perfectly adequate for LL football . Add the bluebell into that New perimeter fencing Extended and refurbished social club New toilet facilities New kitchen facilities Upgraded dressing room and showers All in last few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell1 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Really good thread this, personally and this is my view not the view of the club. Change needs to happen and I am all for an integrated pyramid. How we get there is the million dollar answer. Kelty have made there decision and have been pro active by obtaining licence and have to be congratulated on the excellent ground improvements where financial assistance was sought and obtained. They have been open about there business model and it seems sound to me. They know as with most Fife teams we aren’t greatly supported in terms of numbers through the gate and income streams need to be sought through hospitality, sponsors and bar/social club income. We operate the same model on a smaller scale. Irrespective of success in years to come from any top fife side, Kelty, Hill of Beath or Dundonald Bluebell the reality is the support of these clubs won’t grow enough to make any significant improvement financially from gate receipts. The cost of facility upgrade to obtain the licence is for me the only draw back I see. If assistance was to be made open to clubs financially then that would swing the pendulum for me from whatever source. The potential income on offer moving from the juniors is a major incentive in times where it is becoming ever increasingly hard to keep clubs afloat and pay bills. As far as my own club are located the eos route logistically has minimal impact. However, in terms of an integrated pyramid from the juniors where it will fail is due to say Old tayside Region teams needing to go north and as stated on here no real route for west teams. This will result in the junior clubs rejecting proposals unless there is some kind of radical overhaul and financial licence assistance sourced. For now central based East Region clubs will be the only potential clubs who could realistically look at moving within the current set up. Again it’s all about opinions but this is where we are and the issues that need addressed before we can move forward in any meaningful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo'ness Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, bluebell1 said: For now central based East Region clubs will be the only potential clubs who could realistically look at moving within the current set up. Again it’s all about opinions but this is where we are and the issues that need addressed before we can move forward in any meaningful way. You are quite right and that is why the whole set-up should be actively revised by the SFA. Everybody knows the SOSL is a low standard but as things stand they kind of know they are protected as nobody wants to venture such distances every other week. The East can be more flexible but too many clubs are in the dark about the benefits of switching or are scared to become small fish in a big pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 SoSFL is almost at capacity right now with 15 teams. Just needs a couple of clubs from the West to try and join up to instigate a change in what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The East is where the catalyst for change can and probably will happen. Kelty have already made the jump, but it would be the easiest area of the country for the Juniors to merge with the Seniors and create an all-encompassing set-up, that is probably the best way to approach this rather than a slow defection to the East of Scotland League. You could also use it to bring more local football at the lower levels which would please some Fife Junior clubs, the Tayside/Perthshire clubs could have their own District League until such times as the question of where these clubs go in a pyramid is fully resolved. Fife could join in with West Lothian, and Edinburgh, East Lothian and Borders could also have their own District League. Then above that have a couple of region wide leagues with the East of Scotland League at the top feeding into the Lowland League. Something like that anyway, a wee bit of out the box thinking, although to be honest I can’t see anyone driving this so it is most likely that more clubs will move over ad hoc before the penny finally drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Enjoyable read from the outside looking in. As much as I have a soft spot for Cowden, a league with them Kelty, Shire and EK sounds like an appealing non-league. My hottest of 'yer da' takes is that it definitely feels like a lack of 'proactive-ness' from both the SJFA and SFA where nobody wants to make the first move. It's like they both think they're both holding the better hand. Personally, I think there needs to be a bit of give and take if you can get them both talking, and regularly. Example, something like SFA relaxing rules and opt-outs with promotion and the SJFA allowing everyone non-league in for a free for all in the Junior Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Journeyman Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Really interesting reading the views of a lot of people. There will be a pyramid structure in the next 2-3 years im sure of it and it needs someone in the SFA to take this by the scruff of the neck and send out proposals to all senior/junior/amateur clubs in the country . All the nonsense about clubs in the west dont want to join SOS league so reluctant to join, its not rocket science to have feeder leagues below the Lowland League and if done properly after 2-3 seasons everyone will find a league and will be comfortable with it . in 80-90% of the cases there wont be a lot of change for clubs in terms who they play and logistically there wont be much change in travelling. This will only possibly effect the teams witha bit of ambition who want to move further up the leagues. The rest will be in a league similar to which they are currently in playing sides of a similar standard and financial clout. attached is a basic mock up which surely isnt difficult once decided how many teams in each league and you filter down as far as you need to go to inclue amateur sides. Pyramid.xlsx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Well the rumour that seems to be building momentum at the moment is the West of Scotland League at Tier 6 with Old Firm Colt Sides which could look something like this. Beith Kilwinning Rangers Kilbirnie Ladeside Auchinleck Talbot Kirkintilloch Rob Roy Pollok Girvan - Licensed Glenafton Hurlford united Arthurlie Clydebank Cumnock Glasgow Univ - Licensed Rangers B Celtic B Petershill or another to make 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Have any clubs in the West surveyed their fans to find their opinion on potentially joining the pyramid at some point in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo'ness Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, energyzone said: Have any clubs in the West surveyed their fans to find their opinion on potentially joining the pyramid at some point in the future? Have clubs anywhere? Apart from Kelty, who its been quoted on here were fully in favour, there's been little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, Fife Journeyman said: Really interesting reading the views of a lot of people. There will be a pyramid structure in the next 2-3 years im sure of it and it needs someone in the SFA to take this by the scruff of the neck and send out proposals to all senior/junior/amateur clubs in the country . All the nonsense about clubs in the west dont want to join SOS league so reluctant to join, its not rocket science to have feeder leagues below the Lowland League and if done properly after 2-3 seasons everyone will find a league and will be comfortable with it . in 80-90% of the cases there wont be a lot of change for clubs in terms who they play and logistically there wont be much change in travelling. This will only possibly effect the teams witha bit of ambition who want to move further up the leagues. The rest will be in a league similar to which they are currently in playing sides of a similar standard and financial clout. attached is a basic mock up which surely isnt difficult once decided how many teams in each league and you filter down as far as you need to go to inclue amateur sides. Pyramid.xlsx It's been done to death already, but how is the reluctance of West clubs to join the SoS "nonsense"? With a few exceptions, it's of a lower standard than even the bottom tier of the West Juniors. When they recently expanded they took in teams - who have subsequently done okay there - from the Dumfries AFA which wasn't exactly one of the leading lights of the amateur game before it folded, maybe giving an idea of the actual strength of the SoS, and who play - again with a few exceptions - on caged 3Gs and school playing fields with attendances generally in the low double digits. Oh, and just to make things even more enticing, it also covers a completely different geographical area of the country... It's the equivalent of a future reorganisation of the leagues which stuck Raith Rovers into the Highland League - if you showed a bit of ambition you'd defo do it....I'm sure after a few seasons everyone will find their level...etc., etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Have clubs anywhere? Apart from Kelty, who its been quoted on here were fully in favour, there's been little. It seems that for all the endless discussion on this forum and the numerous posters saying that change is needed or is coming, the clubs themselves don't seem that bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: It's been done to death already, but how is the reluctance of West clubs to join the SoS "nonsense"? With a few exceptions, it's of a lower standard than even the bottom tier of the West Juniors. When they recently expanded they took in teams - who have subsequently done okay there - from the Dumfries AFA which wasn't exactly one of the leading lights of the amateur game before it folded, maybe giving an idea of the actual strength of the SoS, and who play - again with a few exceptions - on caged 3Gs and school playing fields with attendances generally in the low double digits. Oh, and just to make things even more enticing, it also covers a completely different geographical area of the country... It's the equivalent of a future reorganisation of the leagues which stuck Raith Rovers into the Highland League - if you showed a bit of ambition you'd defo do it....I'm sure after a few seasons everyone will find their level...etc., etc... You do seem to be exceptionally negative towards the concept of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 24 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: Oh, and just to make things even more enticing, it also covers a completely different geographical area of the country... Without doubt Dumfries and Galloway is part of south west Scotland. West region juniors can't isolate themselves from it and be part of the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, drs said: You do seem to be exceptionally negative towards the concept of change. In the great scheme of things I'm actually not, but on this particular point for sure I am. A well thought out and nuanced approach to a pyramid would be an asset to Scottish football...unfortunately what we've got is neither. Rather being resistant to change, I'm resistant to an approach of "Oh well, it is what is...better get on with it...." Effectively you're trying to sell Talbot, Pollok and Beith the lie that moving to a league containing Dumfries YMCA, Upper Annandale and Creetown is progress, and then wondering why nobody's swallowing it. 23 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Without doubt Dumfries and Galloway is part of south west Scotland. West region juniors can't isolate themselves from it and be part of the pyramid. Semantically it is, but the reality is that the SoS is a league largely strung out along the Galloway coast with virtually no geographical congruence with the West Region as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 21 hours ago, kefc said: More, exposure, fixture list, u20 league, national cup competitions, financial help, rewards for success, part of the national body, no glass ceiling, all this far out weighed the setup in the SJFA for us. Aye, but apart from that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, the jambo-rocker said: Enjoyable read from the outside looking in. As much as I have a soft spot for Cowden, a league with them Kelty, Shire and EK sounds like an appealing non-league. My hottest of 'yer da' takes is that it definitely feels like a lack of 'proactive-ness' from both the SJFA and SFA where nobody wants to make the first move. It's like they both think they're both holding the better hand. Personally, I think there needs to be a bit of give and take if you can get them both talking, and regularly. Example, something like SFA relaxing rules and opt-outs with promotion and the SJFA allowing everyone non-league in for a free for all in the Junior Cup. Pretty much sums things up - neither the SFA or SJFA are taking a very active lead to promote or take forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.