lanky_ffc Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 19 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Agree with this almost completely. I think there's a difference in the two cases, beyond merely whether these men are "good guys" or not. Seems to me that Mackay is representative of the entire nation in a sense. If he's holding grudges against elements of that nation, it really ought to count against him holding that position where he needs to be selecting players from all backgrounds, or at least open to it. Equally, it's all very well for me to say forgive and forget from my position of middle-class, white male privilege. Having a guy who has made statements (private or otherwise, but in a work position) like Mackay has makes a very negative statement about social inclusion, representation and responsibility. I was going to raise this as well. Whilst we don't know if he'd ever have acted on those comments, the MacKay texts may have given people the impression that he was basing his recruitment decisions on the grounds of race (I'm thinking the 'not many white faces, but worth a look' comment). I can see why people may view this as worse than anything Griffiths has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, lanky_ffc said: I was going to raise this as well. Whilst we don't know if he'd ever have acted on those comments, the MacKay texts may have given people the impression that he was basing his recruitment decisions on the grounds of race (I'm thinking the 'not many white faces, but worth a look' comment). I can see why people may view this as worse than anything Griffiths has done. It's definitely worse, but it's an odd disconnect that what Griffiths did is fine, no problem there, just a laddie, and what Mackay did is so bad. I'm not convinced the difference in how bad each "crime" was is the same quantity as the difference between how they're treated, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtbahfm Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Sidestepping the controversy / Malky stuff, I think that currently Griffiths is nailed on as our first choice striker for the entire Nations League / Euro 20 qualifying campaign (and hopefully finals). I genuinely didn't think he had what it took to be an international striker after watching (on TV) just about all his caps prior to the England game. He consistently played poorly, snatched at chances and looked like he didn't have the bottle for that level of football. Those two free kicks and his subsequent performances (allied to some very decent games for Celtic in Europe) have completely changed it around to the point where I would be really worried if he's ever injured/unavailable. Martin has proved he's a decent sub to throw on and cause some problems with his height, and the likes of Stevie May might fall under the same category, but there really is a lack of other options available. Given his physical attributes, Burke could be pushed up front if we wanted pace and power, but he's not a natural target man. Looking at the under 21s, I saw McBurnie at Swansea score a cracking hat-trick against the Chelsea U23s a week ago: http://www.talkingbaws.com/2017/10/video-scotland-21-striker-oli-mcburnie-scores-ridiculous-first-half-hat-trick-swansea/ But whether he'll ever break into their first team and make the grade is debatable. Other than that, we're pretty much hoping a 16-18yo suddenly matures, gets first team games at a decent level and bursts into the team, but can't see it happening before 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, gtbahfm said: Sidestepping the controversy / Malky stuff, I think that currently Griffiths is nailed on as our first choice striker for the entire Nations League / Euro 20 qualifying campaign (and hopefully finals). I genuinely didn't think he had what it took to be an international striker after watching (on TV) just about all his caps prior to the England game. He consistently played poorly, snatched at chances and looked like he didn't have the bottle for that level of football. Those two free kicks and his subsequent performances (allied to some very decent games for Celtic in Europe) have completely changed it around to the point where I would be really worried if he's ever injured/unavailable. Martin has proved he's a decent sub to throw on and cause some problems with his height, and the likes of Stevie May might fall under the same category, but there really is a lack of other options available. Given his physical attributes, Burke could be pushed up front if we wanted pace and power, but he's not a natural target man. Looking at the under 21s, I saw McBurnie at Swansea score a cracking hat-trick against the Chelsea U23s a week ago: http://www.talkingbaws.com/2017/10/video-scotland-21-striker-oli-mcburnie-scores-ridiculous-first-half-hat-trick-swansea/ But whether he'll ever break into their first team and make the grade is debatable. Other than that, we're pretty much hoping a 16-18yo suddenly matures, gets first team games at a decent level and bursts into the team, but can't see it happening before 2020. This. Assuming that Burke doesn't end up growing a massive amount of football intelligence, I'd treat him as a forward and have him as a third alongside Griffiths and Martin. We don't have any other options really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtbahfm Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 minute ago, forameus said: This. Assuming that Burke doesn't end up growing a massive amount of football intelligence, I'd treat him as a forward and have him as a third alongside Griffiths and Martin. We don't have any other options really. I actually think the move down to U21s for him has been clever – he's shone at that level, scored goals and taken some of the pressure / hype off him. He now desperately needs a run of injury-free first team games at West Brom (ideally starting) where he establishes himself as a Premier League player. What we don't want to see is it being announced he's off to [insert mid-level Championship team here] on loan in January. If he does establish himself at WBA, he could well be a fall back option for striker, or simply just a better winger than James Forrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Also, I'm curious. A couple of people mention Leigh Griffiths well-publicised problems in his past, and people jump down their throat and say how we all make mistakes, we've all said racist things (cheers Kenny) and that he deserves a second chance. Fair enough, and I agree on the last one given he was probably being stupid rather than maliciously racist. Then we have Malky Mackay...now he's the antichrist currently. Said some incredibly stupid things, far more harmful than anything Leigh's ever said, but apparently that's grounds for boycotting the national team. I'm not disputing that one is worse than the other, but why does one get blanket dismissal and the other a lynch mob? Just curious. Griffiths reacted very stupidly to somebody having a go at him and he joined in with a pub full of Hibs fans (surely we can all agree that not every single Hibs fan is a c**t because they might've joined in singing that Skacel song after a few) singing a song. He was in his early twenties and a wee immature fud who was always in bother. Thick and immature. Not nearly as bad as the stuff McKay did for me. The stuff McKay said was horrendous, it wasn't even things that would enter any normal persons mind, it was well thought out racist and bigoted jokes he was coming away with. Can't even begin to understand the thought process behind the stuff he said. Add that to the fact he was in his 40s and he seemed and acted like a well rounded mature individual, those texts just showed him up to be a total arsehole. Think that's why they're treated differently for a start without even getting into the different roles that they have. Griffiths seems to have finally grown up and screwed the nut, he doesn't react to things online anymore, he's a top professional and he always seems to be doing stuff with the community and kids teams etc. I really like him personally and at the same time really dislike MacKay.Back on topic too I can't currently see any other striker or ours coming close to him within the next few years. So even if some people do see him as an arsehole he'll be playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 minute ago, 1320Lichtie said: Griffiths reacted very stupidly to somebody having a go at him and he joined in with a pub full of Hibs fans (surely we can all agree that not every single Hibs fan is a c**t because they might've joined in singing that Skacel song after a few) singing a song. He was in his early twenties and a wee immature fud who was always in bother. Thick and immature. Not nearly as bad as the stuff McKay did for me. The stuff McKay said was horrendous, it wasn't even things that would enter any normal persons mind, it was well thought out racist and bigoted jokes he was coming away with. Can't even begin to understand the thought process behind the stuff he said. Add that to the fact he was in his 40s and he seemed and acted like a well rounded mature individual, those texts just showed him up to be a total arsehole. Think that's why they're treated differently for a start without even getting into the different roles that they have. Griffiths seems to have finally grown up and screwed the nut, he doesn't react to things online anymore, he's a top professional and he always seems to be doing stuff with the community and kids teams etc. I really like him personally and at the same time really dislike MacKay. Back on topic too I can't currently see any other striker or ours coming close to him within the next few years. So even if some people do see him as an arsehole he'll be playing. But then you can argue that telling someone to f**k off home, and singing a naughty song wouldn't come into most normal people's minds either. Certainly wouldn't be high on my list of things I'd plan to do. If the same stuff had come out about Mackay but it was from his playing days when he was Griffiths age, would he get the same treatment? Anyway, this has blown way up and got off the only point that matters. I don't really care what he did in the past, and what Mackay did doesn't really come into it. I just thought the disconnect between the two cases was interesting. As you all were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 23/10/2017 at 10:04, Savage Henry said: Celtic with Dembele are so much more creative and threatening than Celtic with Griffiths. Like Obi-Wan Kanobi, he's our only hope though. Griffiths, Martin and, if he can get regular club time, Naismith are their only strikers capable of playing international football. If Scotland could field a team made up of left backs, wingers and attacking central midfielders, they'd be fine. Some sort of 460 formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Some sort of 460 formation Craig Levein likes this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Also, I'm curious. A couple of people mention Leigh Griffiths well-publicised problems in his past, and people jump down their throat and say how we all make mistakes, we've all said racist things (cheers Kenny) and that he deserves a second chance. Fair enough, and I agree on the last one given he was probably being stupid rather than maliciously racist. Then we have Malky Mackay...now he's the antichrist currently. Said some incredibly stupid things, far more harmful than anything Leigh's ever said, but apparently that's grounds for boycotting the national team. I'm not disputing that one is worse than the other, but why does one get blanket dismissal and the other a lynch mob? Just curious. Griffiths scores goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Johnny Russel scoring there for Kansas last night. Been on fire since moving to the states and always liked him as a player. Surely worth a look at in Peru/Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 10/24/2017 at 14:15, forameus said: Exactly what I just posted a few seconds ago actually. It's an interesting parallel to draw. Personally I don't want Mackay because he's a shit manager, and I'd put the text he's sent under the incredibly, ludicrously stupid banner, rather than any deep-seated racism/sexism/homophobia (although only one party knows exactly whether that's true). If he was a good manager, I'd be willing to give him another chance on a shorter leash, but that's academic given he is, as already stated, a shit manager. Leigh did stupid things in his past, and he's probably still a bit of an arsehole. That's undeniable. I don't really care if he is or he isn't though. Still find the revisionism funny though. People were more than happy for O'Neil to be our next manager also despite his drink driving past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof! Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Enigma said: Johnny Russel scoring there for Kansas last night. Been on fire since moving to the states and always liked him as a player. Surely worth a look at in Peru/Mexico. i’ve always liked him. He’s very strong, very quick, good in the air, and has a great left foot. I’d like to see him tested as our central striker rather than being stuck out wide. Definitely an option for our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 A call for Steven Naismith to get a recall was in the papers yesterday morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, paul-r-cfc said: A call for Steven Naismith to get a recall was in the papers yesterday morning He's been utter gash for Hearts, has he not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 He's been utter gash for Hearts, has he not? That was my thinking. Whoever it was being interviewed said he's rediscovering his form but I'm pretty sure his goal on Saturday was one of few since he moved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Don't know if someone else has been at it too, but Rob Maclean is on the Naismith bandwagon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43702150 The argument seems to amount to 'he played well and scored on Saturday.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky_ffc Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Aye, let's call up a striker who's averaging a goal every 250 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Johnny Russell is a good shout although we have plenty players who play off a main striker, Griffiths is that type of player as well imo. Could they play off McBurnie? Worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Naismith hasn't even been playing up front for most of his time at Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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