Striker for next campaign

[1320Lichtie]

Telling people of Asian heritage, born and raised in Edinburgh to “get back to your own country” is not normal, or a simple mistake, or the sign of a “really good guy”.

Oh ffs.

He deserves hanging, what a despicable human being.

Get a grip.

[1320Lichtie]

Of course it’s not, it’s the sign of a poor upbringing and a questionable circle of friends.

He’s made of his career what Riordan could have if he’d knuckled down and ditched the persecution complex.

 

Exactly this.

 

IMO you can tell he's not horrible, he's just a bit thick.

 

Which the vast majority of us are up until some point. All take different lengths of time to grow up, mature and then realise the mistakes we've made in the past.

 

Can't hold that against him.

[Savage Henry]

26 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Oh ffs.

He deserves hanging, what a despicable human being.

Get a grip.

 

Yes, because the reaction to blatant racial abuse is either "hanging" or "get a grip".    Nothing in between.  Nothing nuanced.

[forameus]

What exactly was so wrong with what SH said?  He did seem like a bit of a dick when he was younger, for many reasons other than saying questionable and stupid things on twitter.  Hasn't he even admitted as much himself since he's tried to rein it in a bit?

In fact, that's exactly what he's said.

Quote

“I know that one bad situation and I will be out the door. There are not many chances of getting to play for Celtic and I don’t want to lose it. That is why I spoke to the gaffer, Scott Brown and a few of the lads. They said once you leave here it’s a downward spiral.”

“I knew I only had one chance here. I have knuckled down and left all that off-the-field stuff behind me.

“I’m getting talked about for the right reasons, in the back pages now rather than the front.

I'd forgotten about his little bout of singing in an Edinburgh pub too

EDIT: And it's just another sign of deifying our new great white hope.  I'm in the same camp as Ritchie Edwards said - I don't care if he's an arsehole as long as he scores goals.  But I'm not going to suddenly make excuses for him just because he's now number 1.  Now that he is, it's apparently a case of "just a mistake", "can't hold it against him" when I doubt it would've been the same story a little while back, or even in future when he's not the flavour of the month.  Just like when Steven Fletcher was refusing to play for us in his cream puff, it was totally all Craig Levein's fault, and not two stubborn arseholes contributing to the same shitty situation.

[Tenkay]

4 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Telling people of Asian heritage, born and raised in Edinburgh to “get back to your own country” is not normal, or a simple mistake, or the sign of a “really good guy”.
 

He's still a young guy,  who's no doubt made mistakes like everyone does.

We're debating here though the best striking options for Scotland, and at the moment Griffiths is the guy  most likely to score for us!

[Savage Henry]

27 minutes ago, Tenkay said:

He's still a young guy,  who's no doubt made mistakes like everyone does.

We're debating here though the best striking options for Scotland, and at the moment Griffiths is the guy  most likely to score for us!

Right.

[kenny131]

1 hour ago, Savage Henry said:

Yes, because the reaction to blatant racial abuse is either "hanging" or "get a grip".    Nothing in between.  Nothing nuanced.

No room for tree hugging liberals on football forum in my opinion, I also would bet everything i have you've made a similar comment at some point in your existence living in scotland where it was part of a joke etc: they all count apparently 

[Gordopolis]

6 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

 

Telling people of Asian heritage, born and raised in Edinburgh to “get back to your own country” is not normal, or a simple mistake, or the sign of a “really good guy”.
 

 

Not that it makes much of a difference but wasn't it Rudi Skacel he was caught singing about?

[forameus]

2 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Not that it makes much of a difference but wasn't it Rudi Skacel he was caught singing about?

He was caught singing about Rudi Skacel, but he also told an Asian guy on twitter to get back to his own country, or words to that effect.

[Savage Henry]

23 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Not that it makes much of a difference but wasn't it Rudi Skacel he was caught singing about?

There was that, but there was also

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-21328997

I don't think it's a huge leap to suggest these kinds of incidents were one of the main reasons why he was completely overlooked at international level for so long.

[dogmc]

There was that, but there was also
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-21328997
I don't think it's a huge leap to suggest these kinds of incidents were one of the main reasons why he was completely overlooked at international level for so long.

Doubt it entered the thinking of any at the sfa.....they hired malky McKay ffs

[forameus]

Probably that, allied with the fact that he's never been amongst the best 4 options in that position until now.  Now he is, and luckily he's knuckled down and, by his own admission (oh noes, liberal snowflake alert!) realised that he needs to behave given the privileged position he's in.  He's going to be our best option until he either fucks it up himself or we get a better option.  Probably the latter.

[Savage Henry]

31 minutes ago, dogmc said:

Doubt it entered the thinking of any at the sfa.....they hired malky McKay ffs

It's a concerning trend, certainly.

[dogmc]

It's a concerning trend, certainly.

Its not an organisation that tends to take a moral stance

[forameus]

Also, I'm curious.  A couple of people mention Leigh Griffiths well-publicised problems in his past, and people jump down their throat and say how we all make mistakes, we've all said racist things (cheers Kenny) and that he deserves a second chance.  Fair enough, and I agree on the last one given he was probably being stupid rather than maliciously racist.  

Then we have Malky Mackay...now he's the antichrist currently.  Said some incredibly stupid things, far more harmful than anything Leigh's ever said, but apparently that's grounds for boycotting the national team.  I'm not disputing that one is worse than the other, but why does one get blanket dismissal and the other a lynch mob?  Just curious.

[Gordopolis]

11 minutes ago, forameus said:

Probably that, allied with the fact that he's never been amongst the best 4 options in that position until now.  Now he is, and luckily he's knuckled down and, by his own admission (oh noes, liberal snowflake alert!) realised that he needs to behave given the privileged position he's in.  He's going to be our best option until he either fucks it up himself or we get a better option.  Probably the latter.

Those words could describe Malky McKay since his scandal too. Despite this, a sizeable number of fans seem disgusted by the idea of him becoming our next manager. Not many people calling for Griffiths' cap career to be ended for his past actions though.

I'm not in favour of McKay becoming our manager tbh, but I'm basing that on his managerial ability and track record more than anything else. I don't agree with the things he said/texted either, but there has to be a point where you accept that the guy has been publicly disgraced and has been at least as contrite as Griffiths has.

 

ETA: I see @forameus has just posted something similar, above!

[forameus]

Just now, Gordopolis said:

Those words could describe Malky McKay since his scandal too. Despite this, a sizeable number of fans seem disgusted by the idea of him becoming our next manager. Not many people calling for Griffiths' cap career to be ended for his past actions though.

I'm not in favour of McKay becoming our manager tbh, but I'm basing that on his managerial ability and track record more than anything else. I don't agree with the things he said/texted either, but there has to be a point where you accept that the guy has been publicly disgraced and has been at least as contrite as Griffiths has.

Exactly what I just posted a few seconds ago actually.  It's an interesting parallel to draw.  

Personally I don't want Mackay because he's a shit manager, and I'd put the text he's sent under the incredibly, ludicrously stupid banner, rather than any deep-seated racism/sexism/homophobia (although only one party knows exactly whether that's true).  If he was a good manager, I'd be willing to give him another chance on a shorter leash, but that's academic given he is, as already stated, a shit manager.  Leigh did stupid things in his past, and he's probably still a bit of an arsehole.  That's undeniable.  I don't really care if he is or he isn't though.  Still find the revisionism funny though.

[dogmc]

Also, I'm curious.  A couple of people mention Leigh Griffiths well-publicised problems in his past, and people jump down their throat and say how we all make mistakes, we've all said racist things (cheers Kenny) and that he deserves a second chance.  Fair enough, and I agree on the last one given he was probably being stupid rather than maliciously racist.  
Then we have Malky Mackay...now he's the antichrist currently.  Said some incredibly stupid things, far more harmful than anything Leigh's ever said, but apparently that's grounds for boycotting the national team.  I'm not disputing that one is worse than the other, but why does one get blanket dismissal and the other a lynch mob?  Just curious.

Tbf McKay can't use the daft laddie excuse. He's a middle aged guy and was in a senior position. There also seems to be at least a recognition from Griffiths that his behaviour was unacceptable. McKay seems to only regret getting caught. Griffiths has shown signs of growing up and trying to better himself...not sure McKay has. There is also am element as you allude to that Scotland without Griffiths are dead in the water whilst McKay seems unlikely to bring anything as a coach.

[forameus]

4 minutes ago, dogmc said:

Tbf McKay can't use the daft laddie excuse. He's a middle aged guy and was in a senior position. There also seems to be at least a recognition from Griffiths that his behaviour was unacceptable. McKay seems to only regret getting caught. Griffiths has shown signs of growing up and trying to better himself...not sure McKay has. There is also am element as you allude to that Scotland without Griffiths are dead in the water whilst McKay seems unlikely to bring anything as a coach.

That's a bit of revisionism though.  You can't just say "och he was young" to excuse things any more than you can damn someone because they're older.  I work with graduates who will be far more mature than some of their older colleagues just like there can be the opposite.  Saying Mackay only regrets being caught is probably a bit disingenuous too.  A prominent anti-racism group saw fit to back him to get the new role, so if they believe he deserves another chance, why is there such a disconnect between how Griffiths is treated and Mackay?

And there you've hit the nail on the head with the last point.  Griffiths is apparently irreplacable, so people will quite happily excuse him while damning others.  Wee bit hypocritical from them.

[Savage Henry]

35 minutes ago, dogmc said:

Tbf McKay can't use the daft laddie excuse. He's a middle aged guy and was in a senior position. There also seems to be at least a recognition from Griffiths that his behaviour was unacceptable. McKay seems to only regret getting caught. Griffiths has shown signs of growing up and trying to better himself...not sure McKay has. There is also am element as you allude to that Scotland without Griffiths are dead in the water whilst McKay seems unlikely to bring anything as a coach.

Agree with this almost completely. I think there's a difference in the two cases, beyond merely whether these men are "good guys" or not.  Seems to me that Mackay is representative of the entire nation in a sense.  If he's holding grudges against elements of that nation, it really ought to count against him holding that position where he needs to be selecting players from all backgrounds, or at least open to it.  Equally, it's all very well for me to say forgive and forget from my position of middle-class, white male privilege.   Having a guy who has made statements (private or otherwise, but in a work position) like Mackay has makes a very negative statement about social inclusion, representation and responsibility.  

Mackay, as far as I know, has done nothing to demonstrate any apology for his words - and surely we can't use the Donald Trump "locker room" defence here?

ETA: this is just conjecture on my part.  It's not really for me to say there's a difference in the two cases, and certainly not to dismiss one case while wiping away the other.  That really is white privilege.    I do think there's an undercurrent which I'm uncomfortable with, though, and I'm not at all convinced this is an undercurrent of youthful naivete or laddish banter.