Lootboxes, pay to win etc

[EdgarusQPFC]

This is a worrying trend that has been slowly creeping up over the past couple of years, they are pretty rife in mobile games and most F2P games, but since the majority(but not all) of them don't require being purchased to actually play the game i'm happy to let that slide. But slowly these kinda practices and other questionable ones have been creeping into mainstream and AAA titles, the FIFA games have had a card system in them for years and you can absolutely just buy your way to an advantage over other players. I don't have a problem with cosmetic options like skins etc, those don't impact the core game, but when you have a games like Battlefield and Battlefront 2 which are meant for competitive play, you shouldn't be able to buy advantages over other players. We had Battlefront 1 where pre-orders got access to Han Solo's blaster which was more powerful than any other weapon, even end game/high level weaponry. So basically if you wanted a massive advantage and basically the ability to one shot people from level 1 you simply had to pre-order it. 

Now with Battlefield they are pretty direct with it, you can simply spend extra money to unlock all the equipment rather than actually play the game. So again you could have a huge advantage over other players. With Battlefront 2 out shortly we are seeing that there is going to be buyable card packs that let you unlock skills, equipment etc admittedly at complete random but you can still give yourself a huge advantage from the get go if you are willing to outspend people who just wanna buy a game at face value and play it. 

I really don't want to see this become the norm with gaming, companies are finding more and more questionable ways to get money out of people for things that previously you simply got with the game. like day 1 DLC which is ripped directly from the disc and you are basically just paying a extra fee to unlock access to the full intended game. Or Fortnite where they are convincing people to buy the game at full price then hiding in the fine print or at the bottom of a description that the game will actually be F2P in 6 months to a year and all you are doing is paying full price for early access to a free game. Or pre-order bonuses like being able to play the game a few days before release etc. 

 

[NotThePars]

Quite impressive to see how much DICE can keep destroying any further goodwill they had going with the Battlefront licence. 

[EdgarusQPFC]

 

[EdgarusQPFC]

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/10/07/opinion-star-wars-battlefront-2-beta-raises-pay-to-win-fears

Even tho this IGN lad is trying his hard not to upset his EA masters, even he has to basically admit its pay to win.

"Well, it’s a plain and simple fact that spending money in this game can give you an immediate advantage in actual matches, especially in the early days before people who aren’t spending have had time to earn in-game currency. It’s true that you might luck into good items in your first earned crates, but buying more chances means your odds of striking gold go up."

"So if I spend $200 on crates, open or craft all the best cards I can, then face an equally skilled opponent at the same level as me who didn’t spend money, I will likely win because I have better tools available. That’s indisputable, which means Battlefront 2 at least has pay-to-win elements. Frankly, that sucks, and would potentially be the kiss of death for any competitive shooter that wasn’t wielding the Star Wars license."

"To be fair, you can’t buy your way to maximum capacity, at least: Leveling up a class through playing matches will unlock more card slots for it, so investing time can also give you a leg up. But those level ups seem to be coming much faster than the crates, at least in the beta. [Update: It's been pointed out to me that leveling classes is actually tied to how many cards you have for that class, not matches played, which makes this even worse. This means that buying large amounts of cards right off the bat will allow you to immediately equip more cards per class than those who don't, so you actually can buy your way to maximum capacity.]"

"And you can spend a crafting resource (also found in crates) to upgrade weaker versions of those cards, the crafting cost going up as the quality does. This means that players who purchase crates not only have more chances to find the rarer (and objectively stronger) cards, they also get more resources to upgrade the weaker cards they find into the powerful versions."

[EdgarusQPFC]

And regarding Shadow of War..

http://screenrant.com/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-microstransactions/

 

Through the Market, players can purchase these things via two different types of currency: Mirian (in-game currency) and Gold (acquired through community events and by purchasing with real-world money).

• Loot Chests contain Gear (weapons and armor) of varying rarity. Equipping and upgrading these weapons and armor enhance Talion’s character abilities. Loot Chests can also contain XP Boosts that help level up Talion faster.
• War Chests provide Orc followers of varying rarity to help forge a strong army. They can also contain Training Orders to level up and customize Orc followers.
• XP Boosts are consumables that help level up Talion faster.
• Bundles package up Loot Chests, War Chests and Boosts together at a great value.

The post included the disclaimer “No content in the game is gated by Gold. All content can be acquired naturally through normal gameplay,” and later explains that Gold does not give players an advantage in the game, only that it “saves time.” We can’t seem to reconcile these two things since their intention with gold is to let players buy more loot, to be better geared up, and to grant them more Orcs for their army. How is that not an advantage? Why would players need to “save time” playing a game they paid for by… paying more? Is it designed to be slow?

 

[Gaz]

Yes, it's crap. But absolutely nothing will change until people stop buying these types of games and start buying from smaller publishers. Which won't happen, because there are an insane amount of people whose experience with gaming rests with buying the new FIFA / GTA / COD etc..

[DA Baracus]

Aye it's w**k, but the folk who make the games don't care. Wanks need to stop buying such shit, but they never will. They'll continue to spunk their money away on stupid crap, utterly mugging themselves off, just so they can win at a computer game. 

[NotThePars]

I thought It was just weans but nearly everybody I work with that plays FIFA say they've spent hundreds, if not thousands, over the years on Ultimate Team. Fucking baffling behaviour.

[forameus]

I've spent a bit of money on packs in previous FIFA titles, and it's easy to see why they make so much money on it.  It's very much playing up to the weak.  You can play upwards of 50 games of FIFA, probably raging through several games where you fall victim to FIFA's questionable scripting, or you could drop a fiver on a pack.  Then the pack ends up being shit, and you're tempted to get more.  No wonder people end up spending 1000s.

EDIT: Just to add, when I say no wonder, I'm not excusing it.  It's a fucking horrible wee mode completely built for the weak whales to be able to spend to win.  From EA's perspective, it's a wonderful business though.

[Ramagamma]

I dont mind cosmetic loot crates in the style of dota 2 or overwatch but these fifa ultimate team card packs are nonsense. Fair play to the developers for realising that many consumers are not only gullible enough to pay for the mostly unchanged base game every 12 months but also they are willing to spend throughout the year to unlock things we used to get for free.

[EdgarusQPFC]

I know one of the reason's this bothers me so much is because i have totally fallen victim to it in the past, ive spent easily £100 on Star Trek Online, buying new ships, trying to unlock new ones and its worrying how easily you can become addicted to unlocking lockboxes even though you know the actual chance of you unlocking the ship you are aiming for is as low as 0.5% per box. I've justified my spending in the past as being that because i play it so much ive gotten my money's worth from the game and yeah its totally possible to rationalize it, ive played the game on and off for  around 4-5 years now so absolutely ive gotten plenty of fun for my money.

 

17 minutes ago, forameus said:

I've spent a bit of money on packs in previous FIFA titles, and it's easy to see why they make so much money on it.  It's very much playing up to the weak.  You can play upwards of 50 games of FIFA, probably raging through several games where you fall victim to FIFA's questionable scripting, or you could drop a fiver on a pack.  Then the pack ends up being shit, and you're tempted to get more.  No wonder people end up spending 1000s.

EDIT: Just to add, when I say no wonder, I'm not excusing it.  It's a fucking horrible wee mode completely built for the weak whales to be able to spend to win.  From EA's perspective, it's a wonderful business though.

These are the ones that really worry me though, because to my knowledge you cant import or transfer items or players from packs to future FIFA titles(please correct me if i am wrong, i haven't played one in years) so you can have people like you mention Forameus who will sink 2-300 quid into each FIFA title just to have to start it all again when the next one is out a year later. No wonder people can rack up the numbers you mention. 

I knew a lad who used to occasionally game with me and my mates and at the time we were all hooked on the Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer and one day this lad just had loads of high end gear out of the blue so he was asked about it and he admitted that he had sunk over £200 on spectre packs to get better gear than us because we were always doing much better than him in matches(i might add this lad is a total idiot and didn't realise Gears of War had a active reload system until Gears 3) and he wanted to catch up, the funny/sad thing is that it made no real difference what gear he had because he was still shit at the game. 

But i am totally willing to bet there are countless stories like above for people with all sorts of games. Trying to outspend when you can't keep up or you just aren't that good a player and should just enjoy the game instead of worrying about being as good or better than people

[JamieStevenson]

I've spent quite a lot of money on League of Legends over the years and Fifa to be fair. I hate crates on CoD though. I've been tempted to buy keys to unlock my crates on Rocket League but it's not a game I play enough of to invest more into.

[Ramagamma]

I've been tempted to buy keys to unlock my crates on Rocket League but it's not a game I play enough of to invest more into.

There's your problem mate

[DA Baracus]

FIFA is shite and folk who continually buy it each year are stupid enough, but to buy loads of packs etc for it takes this stupidity to a new level.

[GiGi]

On 11/10/2017 at 13:03, DA Baracus said:

FIFA is shite and folk who continually buy it each year are stupid enough, but to buy loads of packs etc for it takes this stupidity to a new level.

Agreed. People who buy the new FIFA at launch every year are the worst of mugs. I haven't bought once since 2008. 

On PC minor gameplay improvements and updated textures/weapons or in FIFA's case, squads, would be called a patch. And it would be free. It would not cost £50 a year and come not even cleverly packaged as a new game. 

[Broken Algorithms]

I've probably spent a decent wee sum on cosmetics. But at the same time, I could potentially sell these on marketplace type sites and re-coup it back. One of my couriers on dota 2 was values at something like £175 on the steam marketplace or some ridiculous value. The more I'm typing in this response, the more I'm realising I should probably get them punted.

Fifa is a bit of a different story. I'll buy a few packs and draft mode to get a wee start, but generally speaking I'll accumulate players through coins and grinding leagues/tournaments.

[GiGi]

I'd add day 1 DLC to lootboxes in this rant btw. Disgraceful from publishers and won't stop while people are still buying it.

[XIII]

Apparently sw bf 2 has pay to win loot box mechanics.

This is what happens when you focus group games to a bunch of 12-16 year olds

[forameus]

19 hours ago, GiGi said:

Agreed. People who buy the new FIFA at launch every year are the worst of mugs. I haven't bought once since 2008. 

On PC minor gameplay improvements and updated textures/weapons or in FIFA's case, squads, would be called a patch. And it would be free. It would not cost £50 a year and come not even cleverly packaged as a new game. 

I used to, but I used to enjoy FIFA as a game.  Think I got 15 due to it being the first one Thistle were in, but since then they've just not been enjoyable.  I don't have an issue with those that buy it on release day, but the ones that call it "FIFA day" and put up some TOP BANTZ on facebook about what they do with the old disk can get right to f**k.

[djchapsticks]

22 hours ago, GiGi said:

I'd add day 1 DLC to lootboxes in this rant btw. Disgraceful from publishers and won't stop while people are still buying it.

Probably covered a lot by what you say regarding day 1 DLC but on disc DLC is the first thing in gaming that should be completely stamped out.

You literally pay full price for a game on a disc, the full data contained on that disc will only become available if you pay extra. You're essentially being asked to pay for something you already physically own. 

Thankfully this killed EA Sports PGA franchise stone dead as everyone saw it was a fucking disgraceful tactic to release a full game with 5 courses and another 10 on disc locked away that could only be unlocked by paying money. No achievements or career progress is unlocking any of it.