Who should retire?

[DrewDon]

14 minutes ago, Acastus said:

And the sitter he missed.

He should have buried that. His distribution and reading of the game, however, was good throughout - he was arguably the most impressive player on the pitch in the first half. He also played well enough on Thursday. My argument isn't that Fletcher is without shortcomings, but that some of the criticism he receives - including from some posters on here - is far too strong (and often inaccurate). 

[Distant Doonhamer]

3 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

He should have buried that. His distribution and reading of the game, however, was good throughout - he was arguably the most impressive player on the pitch in the first half. He also played well enough on Thursday. My argument isn't that Fletcher is without shortcomings, but that some of the criticism he receives - including from some posters on here - is far too strong (and often inaccurate). 

This. Fletcher is well past his career best but he`s still a  very decent player. He did well in 2 really big games this week.

 

[tamthebam]

having listened to off the ball over the past few nights Archie McPherson and Chick Young should retire permanently. 

[PB 4.2]

9 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

This. Fletcher is well past his career best but he`s still a  very decent player. He did well in 2 really big games this week.

 

Fletcher was excellent on Thurs, and played very well in the first half tonight.    He was knackered in the 2nd half tonight, lost his player and missed a sitter, before a very good ball for Snodgrass's equaliser.   

[G-MAN]

Burke, Fraser, Christie, McGregor, Armstrong, Tierney, Robertson got to be potential core of next generation squad

SHINNIE

SHINNIE

SHINNIE

[dogmc]

Seriously though what was up with Phillips? I thought his game was all about skinning past people on the wing and ripping defences apart. He looked like a lumbering moron tonight.

Yeah was brutal both games. Can't believe that either Burke or Fraser wouldnt have been better options.

[forameus]

I would quietly forget about Phillips to be honest.  He had one good game, but since has looked like the lumbering moron Gordopolis described him as.  Two moments in particular from last night stand out - Fletcher played an absolute peach of a long-ball to him, which he proceeded to take down awkwardly then bunt out of the park, and then his criminal "cut-back" just after we scored.  Summed him up really, a lazy, lazy stroke of the foot that could have got us a winner had he hit it properly.

[PrestersKTID]

Get rid of Fletcher and Morrison, i'd have kept Brown but will probably be too old for next campaign.

A midfield of Mcginn, Mcgregor and Armstrong is decent enough technically. Forrest and Fraser are fine for the wings and Griffiths up top. Phillips was minging last 2 games but was good against Lithuania. Burke i thought did nothing against england in U21s but is a unit and should give us a bit more physicality. Keep Snodgrass as well as he can still offer something. 

New defenders needed pronto tho, Cooper playing at a good level just now. Hopefully Souttar and his brother can kick on and likes of boy Mccrorie and likes of Ralston will step up. Think in any future friendlies we need to get some of these new guys in. Don't need to go mental like Berti did but try them out.  

[oneteaminglasgow]

4 minutes ago, PrestersKTID said:

Get rid of Fletcher and Morrison, i'd have kept Brown but will probably be too old for next campaign.

A midfield of Mcginn, Mcgregor and Armstrong is decent enough technically. Forrest and Fraser are fine for the wings and Griffiths up top. Phillips was minging last 2 games but was good against Lithuania. Burke i thought did nothing against england in U21s but is a unit and should give us a bit more physicality. Keep Snodgrass as well as he can still offer something. 

New defenders needed pronto tho, Cooper playing at a good level just now. Hopefully Souttar and his brother can kick on and likes of boy Mccrorie and likes of Ralston will step up. Think in any future friendlies we need to get some of these new guys in. Don't need to go mental like Berti did but try them out.  

Cooper and Lindsay are both playing regularly in the Championship, I'd try to get them in the squad and have a couple of friendlies together at least to see how they do, as Berra and Mulgrew will be 35 and 34 by the next Euros, Russell Martin will be 34 as well. None of them are particularly good either. Get Lindsay and Cooper playing and used to playing for Scotland, as they'll be what we have for the next wee while at least. Hanley can help ease them in as well, as he's at least got a bit of experience rather than throwing in two totally untested players in together. 

I wouldn't think a midfield of Armstrong, McGregor and McGinn would work, I don't think it has nearly enough defensive discipline. McGregor is an attacking midfielder, and both Armstrong and McGinn are full of energy and like to get involved in everything but there needs to be someone to play the Brown role of winning the ball back and playing a simple pass. I've no idea who this could be, as all the guys we have to do that are getting on a bit, but there has to be someone or our already fairly shoddy defence will be left outrageously exposed. 

Robertson is great at left back, and hopefully Tierney can get a bit more comfortable at right back. Defensively he looks fine there, but he doesn't look at ease going forward. If Ralston can break through then that'd be ideal, and would allow a degree of flexibility at left back as well. 

Phillips looks fine for a squad place but based upon his last few showings he shouldn't be near the first team. James Forrest looked far, far better than him against Slovakia. Hopefully Burke can start getting games for West Brom, and working on his obvious flaws but if he can then he'll be a very decent player for us. Griffiths up front should continue, and maybe see what Cummings is like in a friendly. He seems to be doing alright for Forest.

[ilostmyself]

I think that phasing players out is the answer rather than players retiring. 

There are younger players in most positions knocking at the door but we can't be giving people their debuts in the most important games of the group. Need to balance the squad with youth and experience and mix it up depending on the opponent. Last night was screaming out for energy which looking at the bench would come from McGinn or McGregor. Strachan doesn't trust these guys enough to make the difference as he's too trusting of the group he already has, he was basically forced into bringing Armstrong and Griffiths into the team. 

We don't need wholesale changes but we need to have the right mix in the squad, with younger players in problem positions not being left out until we are desperate for them.

[54_and_counting]

11 hours ago, DrewDon said:

He should have buried that. His distribution and reading of the game, however, was good throughout - he was arguably the most impressive player on the pitch in the first half. He also played well enough on Thursday. My argument isn't that Fletcher is without shortcomings, but that some of the criticism he receives - including from some posters on here - is far too strong (and often inaccurate). 

In my case its not really criticisms of him it's more of the era he's part if, by the next euros if we dont get there that will be 8 major finals he's missed out on and he'll be late 30's in age, but if he's been one of scotlands better midfielders next qualifiers do we keep him for the 2022 qualifiers

There comes a time where we have to say "sorry but we're gonna try something different" someone joked previous page about waiting till burke becomes the next bale, we'll never know in Scotland as he'll probably be late 20's before making regular appearances for the national side the way scotland cling onto the past 

 

[Aladdin]

Rather than focus on players retiring we should just be looking at who the core of the team should consist of - we dont have a big enough pool of talent to enjoy selections being made easier due to players ruling themselves out.

 

[Gordopolis]

21 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

In my case its not really criticisms of him it's more of the era he's part if, by the next euros if we dont get there that will be 8 major finals he's missed out on and he'll be late 30's in age, but if he's been one of scotlands better midfielders next qualifiers do we keep him for the 2022 qualifiers

There comes a time where we have to say "sorry but we're gonna try something different" someone joked previous page about waiting till burke becomes the next bale, we'll never know in Scotland as he'll probably be late 20's before making regular appearances for the national side the way scotland cling onto the past 

 

The Burke thing annoys me. He might be 'raw' and not ready to be a starter for us, but he's already one of the fastest players in world football, he's tall, built like an ox and he's clearly technically very good (a quick google for his highlights at Forest etc show his skills). We should never have pushed him back down the age groups - seems it's messed around with his head if reports from the England U21 game the other night are anything to go by. Wales' approach with Woodburn and Ampadu is to be commended. They have the hallmarks of potentially great players, so get them involved early and persevere, even if they're not playing regularly or are still developing. 

[Gordopolis]

1 minute ago, Aladdin said:

Rather than focus on players retiring we should just be looking at who the core of the team should consist of - we dont have a big enough pool of talent to enjoy selections being made easier due to players ruling themselves out.

 

Core for me is:

 

Gordon

Tierney, Robertson

Armstrong

Griffiths

 

...with Burke, Fraser tantalising prospects.

We really need to identify a younger CB pairing and a midfielder with dig and discipline to complement Armstrong's forward forays. McGinn, perhaps, but I'm yet to be convinced he can anchor our MF.

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

We really need to identify a younger CB pairing and a midfielder with dig and discipline to complement Armstrong's forward forays. McGinn, perhaps, but I'm yet to be convinced he can anchor our MF.

I think we're going to have to use Lindsay and Cooper, with Hanley and a few others to complement them.  I really can't think of anyone we have for the centre midfield role. It could be a case of keeping one of the older players in, as having someone with a bit of experience in the middle of the park will be helpful. Hopefully Brown will stay on, as he knows Armstrong's game and will allow him to play to his strengths, and will also allow us a bit more time to identify someone good enough to actually play there. 

[Aladdin]

10 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Core for me is:

 

Gordon

Tierney, Robertson

Armstrong

Griffiths

 

...with Burke, Fraser tantalising prospects.

We really need to identify a younger CB pairing and a midfielder with dig and discipline to complement Armstrong's forward forays. McGinn, perhaps, but I'm yet to be convinced he can anchor our MF.

If McGinn/McGregor and Armstrong can provide the energy and attacking play then Brown and Fletcher could last another 2/3 years in the anchoring role if all they are doing is protecting the defence.

[dogmc]

The Burke thing annoys me. He might be 'raw' and not ready to be a starter for us, but he's already one of the fastest players in world football, he's tall, built like an ox and he's clearly technically very good (a quick google for his highlights at Forest etc show his skills). We should never have pushed him back down the age groups - seems it's messed around with his head if reports from the England U21 game the other night are anything to go by. Wales' approach with Woodburn and Ampadu is to be commended. They have the hallmarks of potentially great players, so get them involved early and persevere, even if they're not playing regularly or are still developing. 

He would have learnt nothing at Toulon watching his team mates blooter ball into orbit. Not sure if he would have gained much from u21 either given their coaches. He could have been a decent option as an impact sub out wide or behind Griffiths. Couldn't have been worse than Phillips or Steven fletcher. Its similar to way Robertson was messed about for ages (with the replacements all being worse at defending than Robertson!).

[Aladdin]

It will be interesting to see how Tierney develops - he's clearly good enough to move further forward but its also been suggested he's capable of becoming a centre half.  Personally I would prefer the former.

[boulderdomb]

I think we should be trying to arrange more friendlies during the year and starting to wean the older players out of the squad and the potential younger players in - even if this includes playing the 21s multiple times a year or increasing the number of closed door games we have. Ideally, we need to train the Celtic players to play without Brown - even at club level, when Brown isn't in the squad they don't play to their full potential.

 

I'll be honest and admit I have never watched Scotland as regularly as I have done this campaign and from what I've seen, I don't believe we don't have different players for a select few who are on par with or even better than quality wise than the likes of Bannan and Philips.

[boulderdomb]

1 minute ago, Aladdin said:

It will be interesting to see how Tierney develops - he's clearly good enough to move further forward but its also been suggested he's capable of becoming a centre half.  Personally I would prefer the former.

The EPL want to sign him as a LB (specifically Man U); we should be playing him in his natural, most capable position.