RandomGuy. Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 No we need players who progress to the national team. For the the sake of the national game there should’ve been academies in Tayside, Fife and the Highlands. Giving Hamilton any sort of status isntgoing to improve our national sport. That’s still only 1 player they’ve provided then. They play young Scots, from their own youth system, regularly in the top flight. Whether they make it or not, they deserve to be recognised as a team trying to develop Scottish youngsters. Of the eight teams in the "elite", you could argue they're the only ones who actually comply with the "give young players you've developed game time" philosophy of "Project Brave" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 I can see why we are included, but feel for the Dundee teams, St Johnstone and Ross County & ICT. I think they should have cut one of Motherwell and Hamilton. Also think Partick could have had a better shout than Sevco for inclusion in the top tier as a second Glasgow academy. Murray Park has produced very little for its cost. Must try harder. Rangers pulled their youngsters out the development league, that's how committed they are to youth development.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 21 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: They play young Scots, from their own youth system, regularly in the top flight. Whether they make it or not, they deserve to be recognised as a team trying to develop Scottish youngsters. Of the eight teams in the "elite", you could argue they're the only ones who actually comply with the "give young players you've developed game time" philosophy of "Project Brave" What club doesn’t do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Cerberus said: No one. Also if their youth team is so good why do they have numerous foreigners and Dougie Imrie in their team. Fair play to Accies for still dining out of McArthur and McCarthy 7 years later. We have over the last decade produced 2 players who have become regular full internationalists with there countries of choice, namely the 2 mentioned in your post, we have also had regular representation at all age levels in the Scottish set up over the last decade. Outwith supplying players at this level, we have introduced in the region of 30 youngster to first team football a few of them making over or close to 100 appearances for the club. Two of our development set-up have FA cup winners medals in their possession, both these guys are regulars , fitness permitting in the EPL. These are stats that are no doubt unmatched by any other club in Scotland including the ugly sisters, Accies continue to invest substantial funds into their development programme in the hope of finding more young talent to service our clubs needs, and hopefully provide them with a stepping stone to progress their careers.These are stats that club like Partick should be striving to match if not exceed.They may well in time but that will be achieved mainly by the investment of your benefactors rather than the actions of the club.Hamilton deserve all the plaudits and accolades received for their excellent development programme and not be belittled by a fan of a club with substantial more budgets but whose YDP is well behind Hamiltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 What club doesn’t do this? They do it more than most. Their last game featured six Scots who came through their youth system. How many did Dundee have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I've not really been following the Project Brave thing. Would I be right in saying that the SFA is basically fucking the youth system and possibly a generation of players in order to be seen to be doing something in the light of poor National team performances and to appease the bigger clubs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: They do it more than most. Their last game featured six Scots who came through their youth system. How many did Dundee have? Out of interest who are these 6 who came through their youth system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 Out of interest who are these 6 who came through their youth system? McMann, Lyon, Redmond, Docherty, Boyd and Bingham, although I've realised as I'm typing this Bingham is English.No doubt I'll get the "all of them are shite" rhetoric, but that's not the point of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: McMann, Lyon, Redmond, Docherty, Boyd and Bingham, although I've realised as I'm typing this Bingham is English. No doubt I'll get the "all of them are shite" rhetoric, but that's not the point of this. You won't get it from me, it was a genuine question. Redmond is English too though so it's 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: McMann, Lyon, Redmond, Docherty, Boyd and Bingham, although I've realised as I'm typing this Bingham is English. No doubt I'll get the "all of them are shite" rhetoric, but that's not the point of this. Bingham who joined Hamilton as a 23 year old. Redmond who joined Hamilton as a 23 year old. So that's us down to 4 - Unless we are using your logic, if we are, then Dundee fielded 8 of our own 'developed' players, 5 of which were Scottish. Dundee, for example, in their last game played more young Scottish talent and have had Cammy Kerr, Jesse Curran, Kerr Waddell and Craig Wighton appear this season after coming through our youth development. Curran is slightly cheating as he admittedly hasn't been with us since he was 13 or under, but then neither had Lyon at Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Redmond came from Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: McMann, Lyon, Redmond, Docherty, Boyd and Bingham, although I've realised as I'm typing this Bingham is English. No doubt I'll get the "all of them are shite" rhetoric, but that's not the point of this. Not 1 of them will get anywhere near the national side. You are aware this is meant to be for the benefit of the nation run by the ‘national’ football association. There’s a fifth of the nation’s population in Tayside, Fife and The Highlands yet not an academy between them. Is it really that difficult to have had 2 academies in the Glasgow area, 2 in Edinburgh, 1 in Aberdeen, 1 in Tayside, 1 in the Highlands and 1 around the Dunfermline/Falkirk area? After all it’s for the benefit of the game up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, Cerberus said: Redmond came from Everton. Redmond came from Everton lmfao, if your going to post at less do a little research he came from Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWolfe Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Redmond came from Everton lmfao, if your going to post at less do a little research he came from Wigan. Literally took me 2 seconds to find out he came through Evertons academy before being released for being too small. The guys point was that he wasn't Scottish so whether the club was correct or not is irrelevant. Stop ruining threads with your confrontational attitude. Is it really that difficult to have had 2 academies in the Glasgow area, 2 in Edinburgh, 1 in Aberdeen, 1 in Tayside, 1 in the Highlands and 1 around the Dunfermline/Falkirk area? After all it’s for the benefit of the game up here. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 50 minutes ago, Yenitit said: Not 1 of them will get anywhere near the national side. You are aware this is meant to be for the benefit of the nation run by the ‘national’ football association. There’s a fifth of the nation’s population in Tayside, Fife and The Highlands yet not an academy between them. Is it really that difficult to have had 2 academies in the Glasgow area, 2 in Edinburgh, 1 in Aberdeen, 1 in Tayside, 1 in the Highlands and 1 around the Dunfermline/Falkirk area? After all it’s for the benefit of the game up here. Well it clearly is difficult since the SFA's own Forth Valley Academy hasn't made the Top 8 of Project Brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Probably a stupid idea but what about having four or five centralised academies with state of the art facilities, great coaching and education (all subsidised by the government and SFA) but at a certain age, just like in American sports, there is a draft like system so that these young players get spread evenly amongst the clubs in Scotland on an initial, lets say two year contract, just to give them first team exposure and experience. Total pie in the sky but I still think the worst part of this whole process is the funnelling of talent through a narrow pathway to benefit the bigger clubs whilst putting additional financial burden on those trying to chase elite status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: I've not really been following the Project Brave thing. Would I be right in saying that the SFA is basically fucking the youth system and possibly a generation of players in order to be seen to be doing something in the light of poor National team performances and to appease the bigger clubs ? Possibly. Maybe. Who knows? This is the brief the SFA announced: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=16742&newsCategoryID=1 Gordon Waddell has been good at covering it since the story broke that there was this radical re-shape happening and there's been a lot of conjecture about what's actually going on with it. The first article he did outlined some of the key points (below) however since then the focus has really just been on the whole 8 team elite and the self interest at play. The issue being that teams will be locked out the elite grouping if they don't meet the criteria. Upshot there is if a talented kid has the choice between an "elite" club and a "performance progressive" club then he'll naturally go to one of the "elite" which means the other teams will limited in their player pool. For all Regan and the SFA have undoubtedly fucked it in so much as they seem to have railroaded this through the self-interest on the part of the clubs is an issue as well. In the first article I could find from Waddell on the whole thing there was a list of fairly reasonable points and it covers the whole whole thing in a pretty broad sense: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-spark-civil-war-stewart-9291119 For me the SPFL Trophy thing is really just semantics, they'll call it a RESERVE league and ex-players will get all misty eyed thinking about the good old days but the reality is that the Development League as it is allows for up to 5 overage players to play, so y'know...absolutely f**k all difference. Quote Now their proposals are aimed at improving the entire product with some major changes. Amongst them are: *Slashing the numbers of academies and players while increasing the quality of coaching, and paying more of their £2.2m funding on outcomes rather than box-ticking *A new SPFL Trophy to replace the Development League. This will require a MINIMUM of three overage players in each team, as well as a maximum of five, to give young players better experience of a competitive environment. *Academy football from Under-11 to Under-16 will move to a summer season, with winter Futsal programmes. Match days will also be split to allow full-time coaches to take more teams. *The creation of a new dual age band for 17 and 18-year-olds on pro apprenticeships, which will include coach education and refereeing qualifications. *Increased use of development loans to lower-league clubs for players aged 17-21. Most clubs who have been part of the process feel the document is full of solid ideas. But there are serious fears from some over being excluded from the top group and losing their best talent to rival clubs. *The working group consisted of Gray as its chair, Chris McCart (Celtic), Craig Mulholland (Rangers), Steven Dunn (Aberdeen), Craig Levein (Hearts), Roy MacGregor (Ross County), George Craig (Hibernian), Les Gray (Hamilton), Iain Blair (SPFL), Jim Chapman (Annan), Creag Robertson (Falkirk, now Rangers), Derek Hunter (SFA), Campbell Money (SFA). Really, there's not a huge amount in there that is really contentious IMO. The only real issue seems to be sides having to spend shitloads to meet the necessary criteria for 'elite' status. Being a dick about it most clubs want "elite" status but only a handful have the resources to easily meet the criteria. There have been a few articles on the whole shitshow along the way over the past year they're in the spoiler below if you can be arsed reading them. Spoiler 20/11/16 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/project-brave-innovative-good-game-9296181 18/12/16 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-plan-introduce-rangers-celtic-9474428 08/01/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfas-project-brave-smash-through-9582736 08/01/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-draft-top-euro-performance-9582531 02/04/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/sfas-project-brave-faces-backlash-10143231 07/05/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfas-project-brave-faces-full-10372547 24/09/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/clubs-fail-last-ditch-bid-11226982 24/09/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-stewart-regan-enraged-top-11225188 08/10/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roy-macgregor-slams-sfa-amid-11304165 12/11/17 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eight-premiership-clubs-spearhead-project-11508002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 48 minutes ago, Tartantony said: Literally took me 2 seconds to find out he came through Evertons academy before being released for being too small. The guys point was that he wasn't Scottish so whether the club was correct or not is irrelevant. Stop ruining threads with your confrontational attitude. Spot on! He came to us from Wigan,I was also making the point he was from England and not a product of Hamiltons YDP. If you deem that confrontational that's your perogative, it's also my perogative to say I wasn't being confrontational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, capt_oats said: A really informative post with lots of links Cheers, appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie_Murray7 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I haven’t been following this all that closely. Have the selected clubs not been cosen based on track record of progressing players through their system to the first team and beyond? Ranger have an abysmal record of developing young players, St Mirren have one of three elite academies - according to the SFA - yet haven’t been selected. Sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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