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Junior clubs poaching amateur players with no respect (Lanark Utd)


StuG92

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I'm aware there has been chat on this subject in the past but to be honest not really paid much attention as it's never affected my club.

What is the correct procedure if a junior club wants to contact an amateur player?

I am involved with Wishaw High FP's and have been made aware that Lanark Utd have made contact to 3 of our players to sign for them. On two occasions the players in question remained with us, but unfortunately we have lost the third.

The reason for concern, is that at no stage have Lanark Utd contacted the management of Wishaw and to be honest I feel that is very disrespectful. IS there anything that can be done in the way of compensation or is that down to Lanark themselves?

We, as a club have had this in the past, but the junior clubs have always contacted the management first, in turn giving them their place and offering some sort of compensation.

I know if this was another amatuer club poaching a player they would get slammed by the SAFA.

Please feel free to share your comments as the way Lanark have conducted themselves is beyond a joke.

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I'm surprised by this? On two fronts.

I had players freely approached to leave and approached players, constantly throughout my time coaching in amateur football....be it pubs, clubs or even after games. I thought the amateur status lend itself to this.

As for players invited to go Junior, i didn't think there would be much problems....always wanted my players to better themselves,

However, as i knew it was the norm...doesn't make that necessarily correct.

Can i ask what are you expecting compensation wise? You dont pay the player do you?

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12 minutes ago, ScottMcCorry said:

I'm surprised by this? On two fronts.

I had players freely approached to leave and approached players, constantly throughout my time coaching in amateur football....be it pubs, clubs or even after games. I thought the amateur status lend itself to this.

As for players invited to go Junior, i didn't think there would be much problems....always wanted my players to better themselves,

However, as i knew it was the norm...doesn't make that necessarily correct.

Can i ask what are you expecting compensation wise? You dont pay the player do you?

Given the fact Wishaw play in the central Scottish, the standard is pretty decent. Having played in the bottom level of junior football it's kick rush football and in my opinion don't feel Lanark is much of a step up in standard other than them having a lovely pitch.

The club feel aggrieved, and have there back up as no contact was made to the club and only directly through the player. Not once or twice but on three occasions for three separate players.

As I mentioned earlier, if it was another amateur club acting in this way it would be actioned, similarly if it was a junior club paching another junior player.

As for the individual in question, he's beenoutstanding for us in most games, and to be honest I would think he could play at a much higher level than the second division of the juniors where good players aren't necessarily able to show their quality. At no stage have Wishaw ever held a player back, and don't intend to either.

We don't pay players no, but in the past we have had dealing with other junior clubs such as the Gow and Livingston and can only compliment them on their actions through their pursuit of a player i.e, contacting Wishaws committee and management team, offering match balls, cash sum, generally so that it's not just as simple as losing a player who would usually feature in the starting eleven.  

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2 of your players where asked if they wanted to come to training and both said no so that was the end of it, if they had accepted and it went further we would've contacted the club but it didn't. The 3rd player came simply as a family member that we'd signed asked if scott could come to our training and we where totally unaware that he played for wishaw until he turned up to training.

Then the family member said he would speak to wishaw and advise that scott wanted to join us, we as a club where happy to contact the club but left it to scott to speak to his club.

Your manager has since spoken to our coach about the matter and since then your club has went on a social media rant but that is completely up to yourselves.

If you feel it wasn't handled correctly then I apologise on behalf of the club, we live and learn

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6 minutes ago, Yowesfc said:

2 of your players where asked if they wanted to come to training and both said no so that was the end of it, if they had accepted and it went further we would've contacted the club but it didn't. The 3rd player came simply as a family member that we'd signed asked if scott could come to our training and we where totally unaware that he played for wishaw until he turned up to training.

Then the family member said he would speak to wishaw and advise that scott wanted to join us, we as a club where happy to contact the club but left it to scott to speak to his club.

Your manager has since spoken to our coach about the matter and since then your club has went on a social media rant but that is completely up to yourselves.

If you feel it wasn't handled correctly then I apologise on behalf of the club, we live and learn

So why did you not contact the club in the first instance to ask if it was ok for the players to attend training? Bit of a contradiction considering you never went down the correct avenues when you had already more or less agreed to sign a player.

Whether you were aware or not at the time Scott attended traning, you did know he was signed with ourselves. Surely at that point the decent thing to do would be contact the wishaw manager?

Regardless of Scott being happy or not, as a junior supposedly 'superior' club you would have the courtesy to contact wishaw?

It's easy to sit behind a laptop and apologise but actions speak louder than words and to be fair its a joke how you have dealt with it.

Take a leaf out of other junior clubs book and have a bit of common decency when approaching other players.

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So why did you not contact the club in the first instance to ask if it was ok for the players to attend training? Bit of a contradiction considering you never went down the correct avenues when you had already more or less agreed to sign a player.
Whether you were aware or not at the time Scott attended traning, you did know he was signed with ourselves. Surely at that point the decent thing to do would be contact the wishaw manager?
Regardless of Scott being happy or not, as a junior supposedly 'superior' club you would have the courtesy to contact wishaw?
It's easy to sit behind a laptop and apologise but actions speak louder than words and to be fair its a joke how you have dealt with it.
Take a leaf out of other junior clubs book and have a bit of common decency when approaching other players.


I've gave you our response to your post, it's up to you whether you like it or not.

We have signed another player from an amateur, spoke to the club and provided them with match balls in order for the player to be able to play with us.

If wishaw fp's have never spoken to another player about joining them while he was at another club, whether it be joining them the following season or not, then carry on slinging mud but if you have then your just hypocrites and I know the answer [emoji1303]
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1 minute ago, Yowesfc said:

 


I've gave you our response to your post, it's up to you whether you like it or not.

We have signed another player from an amateur, spoke to the club and provided them with match balls in order for the player to be able to play with us.

If wishaw fp's have never spoken to another player about joining them while he was at another club, whether it be joining them the following season or not, then carry on slinging mud but if you have then your just hypocrites and I know the answer emoji1303.png

 

Are you sitting there saying the manner you conducted yourself in as a club was appropriate?

If that was the case regarding another player, then why did we not receive the same like for like treatment?

Quite happy for you to call your bluff here and ask who these players we have supposedly asked to join are?? Fell free to shed some light 

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End of the day there amateur players so no club has an obligation to inform the club. The same goes for amateur clubs approaching other amateur players. Do you at Wishaw HSFP contact all clubs you've ever taken a player from, probably not. End of the day you're amateurs so you need to deal with this scenario.

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Again if your club is whiter than white carry on, if not then hypocrites.

People being contacted while at other clubs happens every season whether it be junior or amateur whether it's appropriate probably not but it is the norm now.

You said you been about playing wise has a club never approached you when your at another club?

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The problem with this type of poaching is Lanark are a poaching club with no ability to coach, nurture or develope players. They are a club living in the past and not the present. We will continue to develope young players only for clubs like this with no vision to ruin them. 

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6 minutes ago, ekfootball said:

End of the day there amateur players so no club has an obligation to inform the club. The same goes for amateur clubs approaching other amateur players. Do you at Wishaw HSFP contact all clubs you've ever taken a player from, probably not. End of the day you're amateurs so you need to deal with this scenario.

Not once the league has already started and we have a settled group. If a player is unattached in the close season then that's a different story altogether.

I'm talking about doing the decent thing here. If the player doesn't want to stay then we are under no obligation to keep him, therefore released no problem. 

But not even a call to ask permission to speak when he's already signed is a piss poor performance in my book and I'm sure each and every one of you would have the exact same gripe if it concerned one of your teammates or players, correct?

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Got to say I agree with ek on this subject. It's at the junior clubs discretion wether or not they deem it necessary to do so. Would be the courteous thing to do but it is by no means an obligation. How do you attract players to your club might I ask ? For every player who has played for your club have you contacted their teams to ask permission for them to train and sign for your club ?  If so then fair play carry on with your rant but I don't think this will be the case.

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7 minutes ago, Yowesfc said:

Again if your club is whiter than white carry on, if not then hypocrites.

People being contacted while at other clubs happens every season whether it be junior or amateur whether it's appropriate probably not but it is the norm now.

You said you been about playing wise has a club never approached you when your at another club?

Well I'm still waiting on any occasion when we have not went down the correct avenues in player dealings?

It may be the norm, but that doesn't make it right. 

I have yes, but either I myself or the club interested had contacted my current team. I think that's because there was a bit of respect there for other teams and managers, something that has not been shown by Lanark on this occasion.

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I'm new to management but I'm under impression you need amateur teams permission to play the player as a trialist or try sign them I've always approached the club before the player comes in just feels the natural thing to do.

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The problem with this type of poaching is Lanark are a poaching club with no ability to coach, nurture or develope players. They are a club living in the past and not the present. We will continue to develope young players only for clubs like this with no vision to ruin them. 


Did these players come through your youth set up?? Just when you say you develop them

Or did they play for other clubs before they joined wishaw FPs

And trust me our intention isn't to ruin them
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10 minutes ago, jc1 said:

I'm new to management but I'm under impression you need amateur teams permission to play the player as a trialist or try sign them I've always approached the club before the player comes in just feels the natural thing to do.

There's one man speaking a bit of sense, hat off to you mate.

Yes there is a bit of hard feeling on our part, losing a player to a league where the standard does not vary and two, the job we have trying to replace him. 

In all fairness if it was a Colvilles or a super league side then you wish him well and get on with it. But with a team struggling in the bottom end of junior football who didn't have the decency to to pick up the phone.....come on now.

Again the question above, if it was one of your players, would you feel the same right now?? Wake up of course you would

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Thats neither here nor there. The issue is your constant poaching and indecent approaching of players. At least have the decentsey to contact the club as we would never stand in any players way and might I add we wish him all the best for the future as it's not his fault. 

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There's one man speaking a bit of sense, hat off to you mate.
Yes there is a bit of hard feeling on our part, losing a player to a league where the standard does not vary and two, the job we have trying to replace him. 
In all fairness if it was a Colvilles or a super league side then you wish him well and get on with it. But with a team struggling in the bottom end of junior football who didn't have the decency to to pick up the phone.....come on now.
Again the question above, if it was one of your players, would you feel the same right now?? Wake up of course you would


Happens to lower end junior clubs all the time, the only difference being is the type of contract that the players are on.
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1 hour ago, PC39MSO said:

The problem with this type of poaching is Lanark are a poaching club with no ability to coach, nurture or develope players. They are a club living in the past and not the present. We will continue to develope young players only for clubs like this with no vision to ruin them. 

 

35 minutes ago, PC39MSO said:

Thats neither here nor there. The issue is your constant poaching and indecent approaching of players. At least have the decentsey to contact the club as we would never stand in any players way and might I add we wish him all the best for the future as it's not his fault. 

 

I believe the vocabulary of the youngsters in a situation like this is "heads gone" and "verge of tears"

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3 hours ago, StuG92 said:

I'm aware there has been chat on this subject in the past but to be honest not really paid much attention as it's never affected my club.

What is the correct procedure if a junior club wants to contact an amateur player?

I am involved with Wishaw High FP's and have been made aware that Lanark Utd have made contact to 3 of our players to sign for them. On two occasions the players in question remained with us, but unfortunately we have lost the third.

The reason for concern, is that at no stage have Lanark Utd contacted the management of Wishaw and to be honest I feel that is very disrespectful. IS there anything that can be done in the way of compensation or is that down to Lanark themselves?

We, as a club have had this in the past, but the junior clubs have always contacted the management first, in turn giving them their place and offering some sort of compensation.

I know if this was another amatuer club poaching a player they would get slammed by the SAFA.

Please feel free to share your comments as the way Lanark have conducted themselves is beyond a joke.

It's in the SJFA rule book on Page 43, they are supposed to contact the club a player plays for before speaking to the player.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SJFAFiles/DocumentsandDownloads/SFARegistrationProcedures/Scottish FA Registration Procedures 2015-16.pdf

 

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