Junior clubs poaching amateur players with no respect (Lanark Utd)

[ekfootball]

2 hours ago, StuG92 said:

Not once the league has already started and we have a settled group. If a player is unattached in the close season then that's a different story altogether.

I'm talking about doing the decent thing here. If the player doesn't want to stay then we are under no obligation to keep him, therefore released no problem. 

But not even a call to ask permission to speak when he's already signed is a piss poor performance in my book and I'm sure each and every one of you would have the exact same gripe if it concerned one of your teammates or players, correct?

You sound like a complete roaster tbh and I certainly would be avoiding making a phone call to you as well.

[ekfootball]

2 minutes ago, munro76 said:

It's in the SJFA rule book on Page 43, they are supposed to contact the club a player plays for before speaking to the player.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SJFAFiles/DocumentsandDownloads/SFARegistrationProcedures/Scottish FA Registration Procedures 2015-16.pdf

 

These rules do not apply to amateur signed players with amateur clubs. They apply to players who are signed on amateur forms with other juniors teams. There is no obligation or rule stating a junior club must contact an amateur club regarding there player.

[WhaleOilBeefHucked]

3 minutes ago, ekfootball said:

These rules do not apply to amateur signed players with amateur clubs. They apply to players who are signed on amateur forms with other juniors teams. There is no obligation or rule stating a junior club must contact an amateur club regarding there player.

It doesn't matter what type of registration the player is signed to, the player is signed to a club you are not allowed to approach that player until you have spoken to their club as they are technically allowed to request a transfer fee.  We all know that in the real world people have chats with players, but at the very least out of respect you speak to the club who are unlikely to stand in a players way.

I have been involved in reviewing and updating Welfare and Amateur rulebooks in the past, if it is not specifically mentioned in the rules they should be covered under general SFA registration rules where you are not allowed to approach a player without first speaking to their club. 

 

[ekfootball]

13 minutes ago, munro76 said:

It doesn't matter what type of registration the player is signed to, the player is signed to a club you are not allowed to approach that player until you have spoken to their club as they are technically allowed to request a transfer fee.  We all know that in the real world people have chats with players, but at the very least out of respect you speak to the club who are unlikely to stand in a players way.

I have been involved in reviewing and updating Welfare and Amateur rulebooks in the past, if it is not specifically mentioned in the rules they should be covered under general SFA registration rules where you are not allowed to approach a player without first speaking to their club. 

 

You're wrong mate. The SAFA and SJFA registration is completely different. Those rules apply to junior clubs only with players signed on pro or amateur contracts. They have no bearing on players signed on amateur contracts under the SAFA. Its a completely different type of amateur registration. You can approach any amateur clubs players at any times and there is not a thing you can do about it.

[sctv]

Does it really matter if it's in the rules
Common decency comes first surely, I know for a fact Lanark approached another amateur team and compensation was there, in fact the club in question highlighted how professional Lanark had acted and no doubt that will stand Lanark in good stead with this club going forward.
Lanark have also said they asked the two boys to training and I'd imagine if it was going further they would have spoke to wishaw, slightly disappointing they never spoke to them before the training but hey ho
The other boy it seems to have been a mistake which the guy already has said

[winston_ingram]

10 minutes ago, sctv said:

Does it really matter if it's in the rules
Common decency comes first surely, I know for a fact Lanark approached another amateur team and compensation was there, in fact the club in question highlighted how professional Lanark had acted and no doubt that will stand Lanark in good stead with this club going forward.
Lanark have also said they asked the two boys to training and I'd imagine if it was going further they would have spoke to wishaw, slightly disappointing they never spoke to them before the training but hey ho
The other boy it seems to have been a mistake which the guy already has said

Yes, is the answer you are looking for. 

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, ekfootball said:

You're wrong mate. The SAFA and SJFA registration is completely different. Those rules apply to junior clubs only with players signed on pro or amateur contracts. They have no bearing on players signed on amateur contracts under the SAFA. Its a completely different type of amateur registration. You can approach any amateur clubs players at any times and there is not a thing you can do about it.

DId you rclick the link that was given?

Annex 11

–

Signing of Recreational Form Players, Compensation Payable and Training Fund Contributions

1

General

1.1 A Club in full membership of the Scottish FA or in membership of an Affiliated Association or in membership of the Scottish Junior FA may sign and register a Player who, at the time of signing with such Club, is registered upon a recreational form, by intimating by recorded delivery 7 days’ notice of such proposed registration to: (a) the Secretary; (b), as appropriate for the specific Player, the Secretary of the Scottish Amateur FA or Scottish Welfare FA and; (c) a Recognised Official of the Player’s current Club.

1.2

Upon receipt of a notice in terms of Paragraph 1.1 of this Annex 11, an Affiliated National Association Club must immediately advise its relevant registration authority of the cancellation thus rendering the Player free to sign and be registered with his new Club thereafter.

1.3

It shall be deemed to be a breach of the Registration Procedures and a Club may be liable to sanctions should a Club approach a Player who is, at the time of signing with such Club, registered upon a recreational form prior to carrying out the above procedure. Furthermore, where the Player is under 16 years of age, Clubs must also approach and obtain the consent of a Player’s parent(s)/guardian(s)/carer(s) prior to speaking to the Player.

The recreational form only exists in youth and amateur football.

[cmontheloknow]

Would also add that an  offence is only committed (going by the letter of the law) if a Junior club attempts to register the player of an 'Affiliated National Association club (i.e. an SAFA / SYFA or SWFA one) while still on a recreational form. I'm not sure where inviting a player to training is covered...  is that an offence under 1.3? Regulations like to leave wriggle room!

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 hours ago, PC39MSO said:

indecent approaching of players. 

Are we still talking about the same thing?

[Hillonearth]

42 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Are we still talking about the same thing?

Yowes-za!

[geomac100]

The problem with this type of poaching is Lanark are a poaching club with no ability to coach, nurture or develope players. They are a club living in the past and not the present. We will continue to develope young players only for clubs like this with no vision to ruin them. 

The whole club is a complete shambles and sadly have not moved forward with the times .
Sorry to hear about the poaching of players without gaining prior permission and this would not have happened in the past

The current committee should step down and allow football minded men to come on board and resuscitate the club, hear the club are in a poor way financially and recently cancelled their weekly sweep which provided much needed cash and with a committee void of ideas , they are in a poor state .

There are amateur teams being run better and I am sure Wishaw are such, always enjoyed playing Wishaw HSFP In my playing days and guys like Gus Boyle at the helm proper fitba men who know the score and could learn lanark how to do things the proper way

Hang your heads all at Moor Park

[TheDaftGoalie]

Would like to clarify a few things on this topic first of all Lanark at no point contacted the so call player to invite him to training so for wishaw to complain that one of there players left because Lanark approached the player is a utter LIE the player was asked to go and train with Lanark with a view to see if he liked the training and also playing junior by his step-dad who is a player with them so if anyone is to blame it's me because he's too good to play at the level he's playing and after a phone call with the manager on Sunday he understood the situation so to come on here wen he cud have said wat he wanted to me sounds of sour grapes I don't regret taking him to Lanark as will grow into the junior game and progress to the level he shud b at

[sctv]

Yes, is the answer you are looking for. 

What I'm trying to say is courtesy costs nothing

[PC39MSO]

It's the manner in which it happened. To call and say you have a sore "toe" and then turn out for a poor junior side later is very lame. Also the club has no issue with players bettering themselves but feel that Lanark are not the club to do so. We thought that we treated him fairly and should have had the same common decency back and just say he was going to play for Lanark. If you think Scott is too good for us you should have steered him in the correct direction then. 

[StuG92]

You sound like a complete roaster tbh and I certainly would be avoiding making a phone call to you as well.

You can take your personal opinion of me and ram it as far as I'm concerned.

We're talking football and it's clearly had split opinions as you will see.

If the situation was dealt with properly we wouldn't be in this situation dum dum

[TheDaftGoalie]

I told the boy to contact the club but as a young boy he didn't want to let anyone down so he can b excused for that error cause if I had known that I wud have personally phoned as I've been involved in the game a long time and it's only courtesy to phone but he's only a young lad  also I've let him make his way in the game he's always played above his age group wen he went to youse I felt it wud help him grow up more but having watched him with youse it because apparent he wud b better off away that's why I've stepped in and ur opinion that Lanark is not the club to better himself is utter nonsense that's exactly where he will learn because I've been at the highest level in junior football and he's not quite ready for that yet it's great u think he shud b playing higher cause he eventually will with the right guidance 

[boulderdomb]

Out of curiosity what does FP mean?

[Disco30]

2 minutes ago, boulderdomb said:

Out of curiosity what does FP mean?

Former pupils I think ?

[Brig O'Lea]

On 9/18/2017 at 18:05, cmontheloknow said:

Would also add that an  offence is only committed (going by the letter of the law) if a Junior club attempts to register the player of an 'Affiliated National Association club (i.e. an SAFA / SYFA or SWFA one) while still on a recreational form. I'm not sure where inviting a player to training is covered...  is that an offence under 1.3? Regulations like to leave wriggle room!

You wouldn't be able to register a player while still on a recreational form because the online system only allows you to submit a registration if the player is now a free agent.  You can however select an option 'Notice to sign a recreational player'  so in effect the system forces you to do the right thing when signing someone from the SAFA.

[cmontheloknow]

8 hours ago, Brig O'Lea said:

You wouldn't be able to register a player while still on a recreational form because the online system only allows you to submit a registration if the player is now a free agent.  You can however select an option 'Notice to sign a recreational player'  so in effect the system forces you to do the right thing when signing someone from the SAFA.

Cheers for the clarification Bo'L, the regulations need updating to work in the digital world! Does that option basically inform the other club and tell them to release him?