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St Mirren vs Queen of the South


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13 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I couldn't see where the ball went for his body but he looked quickly behind himself as if it had squirmed through him and for about 1/10th of a second my arse collapsed a bit. 

In the first half there was a low shot that normally a keeper would dive forward and put their body behind but with the wet weather it looked like it was about to squirm between his legs. 

 

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Looking back at them from our point of view they really are all preventable and at more than one stage of the build up.

1st goal. Kerr has to be stronger than his opponent in there. Brownlie is completely ball watching as well. Watch him before the ball is even crossed: he is waiting for the cross but doesn't have any look for the man coming in or where he's going. It then drops to the man he should be on tight and he slots it away. Even with the CBs not doing well there Martin has to keep that effort out, poor conditions or not. He takes the heat for that one.

2nd goal is a bit trickier to assign blame tbh. Dykes was the ballwatcher this time and by the time he had a look for his opponent the boy was past him and had delivered. Morgan was completely unmarked (their most dangerous player. Come on ffs.) and in all fairness slotted it home better than I recalled at the time. Jacobs failing to pick him up?

The 3rd is just a ridiculous goal to lose. I've watched it 3 or 4 times now. If Rankin is at the front of the goal alone then his role is surely to prevent a short corner? His doesn't pick up the runner and it starts from there (I couldn't see who was initially marking the runner so they take some of the responsibility there as well). The ball is then loose for Brownlie to win. I'm still in utter disbelief how he failed to clear that ball. The strike was well taken again but Martin has to do better once more.

I can't recall the last time we lost 3 such preventable goals in a game. No surprise they came from a corner and crosses though. Spend the whole week learning to defend crosses ffs.

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Morgan's goals were things of beauty. The ball comes near him  outside  the box and he just passes it straight into the net like he has done 8 times this season. Your keeper is not the only one to have lost similar goals. St Mirren never got out of 2nd gear yesterday and McGinn completely bossed the midfield. Yes we never played at our best but beating a team just below us before the match started and going 3-0 up was ok for a team not firing on all cylinders. We did strangely sit back when you scored which is not like us but given the number of fringe players we had on the park Jack obviously decided 3-1 would do. We cannot play like Barcelona in every game.
And before the match started many Buddies were very worried about Dobbie and Lyle playing against a back four where only 1 player was over 21 but to be honest your lethal strike force were not up to much. Overall I was pretty disappointed in Queens. I expected a lot more from them.


You are not the only one who was expecting a lot more from us. As soon as I heard earlier in the week that you would have a makeshift defence and that it would be a massive opportunity for us ......... I could virtually have written the script. We have a scrapbook full of these episodes I'm afraid.

Knowing that your defence would take a while to settle was surely a cue for our manager to set us up as positively as possible and really go all out for goals. Apparently not - the better tactic was to set up to try and stifle and frustrate you. If there is an obvious tactical plan to execute you can be sure that we will
do the opposite.
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4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Fair enough. I watched the first half when I got home last night but haven't seen the second half yet. There was plenty of complaint at the time and I saw some of our fans from behind the goal say it was never a corner.

Meant to add that from the tv coverage I did see I thought Stelios was a bit lucky to ONLY see yellow on that tackle on Rankin. He takes him out with studs up high on the shin, though he was being pulled back by Rooney just before it to be fair. It was a stupid challenge though.

What did you think of the studs up challenge that Rooney did a few minutes earlier (no foul), or the bad tackle and follow through on Morgan a few minutes later.  And of course the clear shirt pull on Stelios that you mention.

Don't think Rooney picked up a yellow at any point through the 90 minutes?

Did you manage to watch to the end? What did you think of Rankin's 'tackle' on McGinn in the final few minutes?

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10 minutes ago, Bobby_F said:

What did you think of the studs up challenge that Rooney did a few minutes earlier (no foul), or the bad tackle and follow through on Morgan a few minutes later.  And of course the clear shirt pull on Stelios that you mention.

Don't think Rooney picked up a yellow at any point through the 90 minutes?

Did you manage to watch to the end? What did you think of Rankin's 'tackle' on McGinn in the final few minutes?

I don't recall any studs up challenge by Rooney. Want to give me a time for it and I'll have a look?

I did see the one on Morgan. It's a poor challenge and he's lucky he wasn't booked for it. Said so at the time. The shirt pull was just a shirt pull. He's not going to get booked for it unless it's for persistent offending but presumably the referee didn't see it since we got the free kick.

Not sure what your point is anyway? No idea what relevance any of that has to whether or not Stelios was lucky not to see red? I don't recall nominating Rooney for a humanitarian award. It's not ok for Stelios to rake his studs on an opponents' shin because someone else committed a foul or two and wasn't booked. I'm making an observation that he was a wee bit fortunate not to get red for it and it was very early on whilst still 0-0 and you are already short of defenders. A silly challenge.

And no, I haven't watched the second half yet being as I'm at work and have been since I posted the previous comment. I'll try to watch it tonight.

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2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I don't recall any studs up challenge by Rooney. Want to give me a time for it and I'll have a look?

I did see the one on Morgan. It's a poor challenge and he's lucky he wasn't booked for it. Said so at the time. The shirt pull was just a shirt pull. He's not going to get booked for it unless it's for persistent offending but presumably the referee didn't see it since we got the free kick.

Not sure what your point is anyway? No idea what relevance any of that has to whether or not Stelios was lucky not to see red? I don't recall nominating Rooney for a humanitarian award. It's not ok for Stelios to rake his studs on an opponents' shin because someone else committed a foul or two and wasn't booked. I'm making an observation that he was a wee bit fortunate not to get red for it and it was very early on whilst still 0-0 and you are already short of defenders. A silly challenge.

And no, I haven't watched the second half yet being as I'm at work and have been since I posted the previous comment. I'll try to watch it tonight.

The first Rooney challenge is about 22-23 mins in, which is when I got iPlayer going.

He seemed to do 2-3 debatable challenges over a short period of time, but got away with them, whereas Stelios got booked.

The reason I mentioned it was that you said Stelios was lucky not to get a red card for his foul; so I was pointing out that the ref was being as lenient if not more so, with Rooney.

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33 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Looking back at them from our point of view they really are all preventable and at more than one stage of the build up.

1st goal. Kerr has to be stronger than his opponent in there. Brownlie is completely ball watching as well. Watch him before the ball is even crossed: he is waiting for the cross but doesn't have any look for the man coming in or where he's going. It then drops to the man he should be on tight and he slots it away. Even with the CBs not doing well there Martin has to keep that effort out, poor conditions or not. He takes the heat for that one.

2nd goal is a bit trickier to assign blame tbh. Dykes was the ballwatcher this time and by the time he had a look for his opponent the boy was past him and had delivered. Morgan was completely unmarked (their most dangerous player. Come on ffs.) and in all fairness slotted it home better than I recalled at the time. Jacobs failing to pick him up?

The 3rd is just a ridiculous goal to lose. I've watched it 3 or 4 times now. If Rankin is at the front of the goal alone then his role is surely to prevent a short corner? His doesn't pick up the runner and it starts from there (I couldn't see who was initially marking the runner so they take some of the responsibility there as well). The ball is then loose for Brownlie to win. I'm still in utter disbelief how he failed to clear that ball. The strike was well taken again but Martin has to do better once more.

I can't recall the last time we lost 3 such preventable goals in a game. No surprise they came from a corner and crosses though. Spend the whole week learning to defend crosses ffs.

Not sure I'd blame Kerr for much on the first. He stands strong and actually prevents Reilly getting a clean header. He's fortunate it kind of runs down him and deflects off to Smith. Brownlie should react quicker to stop the shot coming in and Martin obviously has a nightmare.

2nd one I blamed Kerr for the backheel earlier but it's Brownlie actually. Still no idea why he doesn't play it the way he's facing out for a corner or back out where it came from for a throw. Dykes also gives the wide man a yard he never gets back. Wouldn't blame Martin for it at all.

3rd one Brownlie really has to clear that ball. It's a sweet strike and Martin is full stretch. I'm not convinced it's one I'd hold against him. People are looking to blame him after the first one but it's not one I'd expect him to save. If he saves that he's done very well.

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3 minutes ago, Bobby_F said:

The first Rooney challenge is about 22-23 mins in, which is when I got iPlayer going.

He seemed to do 2-3 debatable challenges over a short period of time, but got away with them, whereas Stelios got booked.

The reason I mentioned it was that you said Stelios was lucky not to get a red card for his foul; so I was pointing out that the ref was being as lenient if not more so, with Rooney.

I'll look for the Rooney one again and I've already said he was pretty lucky not to get booked for the foul on Morgan (which you scored from).

Like I say though none of that changes the fact that for me Stelios is pretty lucky. His booking is not remotely debatable. I think a lot of refs would have red carded him for that. I'm not moaning about it. Just making an observation that considering it was in the middle of the park, not a desperate late challenge, it's very early on and you are already very short of defenders it's a criminally stupid challenge to have made. He could have had no complaint if he had gotten a red card for it. He gave the referee a question to answer.

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9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'll look for the Rooney one again and I've already said he was pretty lucky not to get booked for the foul on Morgan (which you scored from).

Like I say though none of that changes the fact that for me Stelios is pretty lucky. His booking is not remotely debatable. I think a lot of refs would have red carded him for that. I'm not moaning about it. Just making an observation that considering it was in the middle of the park, not a desperate late challenge, it's very early on and you are already very short of defenders it's a criminally stupid challenge to have made. He could have had no complaint if he had gotten a red card for it. He gave the referee a question to answer.

I agree. Especially given some of the red cards we've had this season, he should be taking no chances.

Looking at it closely it looks like he goes to try to block the ball, realises he's not getting it, tries to pull out and catches Rankine on the foot.  If he'd hit high up on Rankine's shin as you suggested I doubt Rankine would have got up a few seconds later without treatment. Have a look again; pretty sure he doesn't catch him high up on the shin.

I think a red would have been incredibly harsh.

The Rankine one is at 92:11 - so game almost over, and was also a very silly thing to do - especially as it was right in front of the ref.

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3 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 


You are not the only one who was expecting a lot more from us. As soon as I heard earlier in the week that you would have a makeshift defence and that it would be a massive opportunity for us ......... I could virtually have written the script. We have a scrapbook full of these episodes I'm afraid.

Knowing that your defence would take a while to settle was surely a cue for our manager to set us up as positively as possible and really go all out for goals. Apparently not - the better tactic was to set up to try and stifle and frustrate you. If there is an obvious tactical plan to execute you can be sure that we will
do the opposite.

I really rate Lyle and Dobbie and thought it would be a cavalry charge from the kick-off against our young and inexperienced defence. Surprised it wasn't but that was probably down to lack of service as McGinn bossed the midfield and cut out a lot of through balls.  I thought Rankin was pretty poor - he usually has a good game against us.

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I really rate Lyle and Dobbie and thought it would be a cavalry charge from the kick-off against our young and inexperienced defence. Surprised it wasn't but that was probably down to lack of service as McGinn bossed the midfield and cut out a lot of through balls.  I thought Rankin was pretty poor - he usually has a good game against us.


You are spot on - that is the way Manager should have signified our intentions. Clearly that approach does not guarantee an away win but when you go all out for a win and you still lose at least the supporters have the consolation of knowing that the plan was good and that the Manager had genuine faith in his players to deliver a positive result.

No surprise that we have our best spell in latter stages when we adopt a very positive approach but by that time Saints were trying to manage the game and get over the line. No doubt in my mind that we missed a glaring opportunity but to be honest an approach like that from our Manager got the result he deserved.

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27 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

I really rate Lyle and Dobbie and thought it would be a cavalry charge from the kick-off against our young and inexperienced defence. Surprised it wasn't but that was probably down to lack of service as McGinn bossed the midfield and cut out a lot of through balls.  I thought Rankin was pretty poor - he usually has a good game against us.

In terms of creativity our midfield is poor. We really need a player who can control a game.

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In terms of creativity our midfield is poor. We really need a player who can control a game.



It was painful seeing an ex-QoS player cruise through that game at CM last night. How I'd have loved McShane to have came back to us :(
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6 hours ago, Bobby_F said:

The first Rooney challenge is about 22-23 mins in, which is when I got iPlayer going.

He seemed to do 2-3 debatable challenges over a short period of time, but got away with them, whereas Stelios got booked.

The reason I mentioned it was that you said Stelios was lucky not to get a red card for his foul; so I was pointing out that the ref was being as lenient if not more so, with Rooney.

 

6 hours ago, Bobby_F said:

I agree. Especially given some of the red cards we've had this season, he should be taking no chances.

Looking at it closely it looks like he goes to try to block the ball, realises he's not getting it, tries to pull out and catches Rankine on the foot.  If he'd hit high up on Rankine's shin as you suggested I doubt Rankine would have got up a few seconds later without treatment. Have a look again; pretty sure he doesn't catch him high up on the shin.

I think a red would have been incredibly harsh.

The Rankine one is at 92:11 - so game almost over, and was also a very silly thing to do - especially as it was right in front of the ref.

I think he does catch Rankin high on the shin, albeit its more of a brush of studs than full blooded contact. He is trying very late to pull out of it I think. On reflection yellow is about right but it was still a silly challenge and a fraction off being red. 

I still dont know what this studs up challenge by Rooney is. The only foul he commits around the time spell you reference is the one at 23 and a half minutes on Morgan that leads to the goal. There are no studs up in that challenge but the fact he brought his trailing leg into the challenge too could have seen him booked certainly.

I dont see anything much of note in the Rankin one at the end. Not a single St Mirren player reacts unusually to it and McGinn gets straight up and accepts his hand. Its a nothing foul.

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Rankin wasn't happy when McGinn elbowed him in the face and you can see Rankin asking "who was it" when he gets back up. I think he waited until the last minute to get his payback on McGinn then quickly offered a handshake to get out of trouble (like Norman Hunter used to do!)

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3 hours ago, JessieField said:

Rankin wasn't happy when McGinn elbowed him in the face and you can see Rankin asking "who was it" when he gets back up. I think he waited until the last minute to get his payback on McGinn then quickly offered a handshake to get out of trouble (like Norman Hunter used to do!)

Yeah, this was very clear. Of course, as I said at the time, his arm was every bit as high as McGinn's, it's just that he got caught.

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13 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

 

 


It was painful seeing an ex-QoS player cruise through that game at CM last night. How I'd have loved McShane to have came back to us :(

 

 

Yeah I thought that too. Was wondering how two of our former top p[layers ended up at St Mirren. I'm in two minds about Reilly - always preferred Nicky Clark as a striker, but I'd have Lovejoy back in a heartbeat.

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Yeah I thought that too. Was wondering how two of our former top p[layers ended up at St Mirren. I'm in two minds about Reilly - always preferred Nicky Clark as a striker, but I'd have Lovejoy back in a heartbeat.



Even without Dobbie I'd take McShane back ahead of Reilly. Holt has probably gone on to do the best of the 4 but of the 4 we've missed McShane the most imo.
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