SDL/ANTI FACIST MARCH IN PERTH

[Suspect Device]

I wonder if the SDL will come up to protest against the Kingsford development. There's apparently not enough parking there either.

 

 

[ICTChris]

1 minute ago, Suspect Device said:

I wonder if the SDL will come up to protest against the Kingsford development. There's apparently not enough parking there either.

Clearly the protest was all about parking, that's why one of them had a 'White Pride' sign.  Nothing makes me feel prouder of being white than having plenty of parking.

[Suspect Device]

I could see them using a Beastie boys style chant

You've got to fight

For your right

To park here.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, Suspect Device said:

I wonder if the SDL will come up to protest against the Kingsford development. There's apparently not enough parking there either.

 

 

Is it the parking that's the main concern? You can see their point. The last thing we need is more frustrated Muslims charging about in cars looking for somewhere to park.

[mizfit]

One advantage of the SDL in Perth is letting me know what morons I went to school with to avoid in the future.

[Fifes Elite Force]

I went into the centre of Edinburgh a number of years ago to see one of these marches and it's counter-march. The SDL guys were at end the of princess street towards Carlton Hill. There was about 100 maybe behind police and seemed like they just wanted to sing stupid football songs and about German bombers in the air. They looked like they revelled more in the attention and confrontational aspect of the whole thing rather than anything else

The anti-facist counter march seemed peaceful enough but I hear these days many of the protesters on that side are getting much more  militant.

I have noticed with the rise in social media many people in favour of not allowing marches by groups they themselves don't like or have a particular viewpoint on, it also seemed to coincide with this safe space sort of culture that's crept in. SDL marches are one as an example and the orange/republican marches are probably other high profile ones kicking about that some people want outright banned. I don't support any of those 3 groups but I respect the right that a group no matter much I disagree with them they have the right to campaign/demonstrate on a subject providing they do it within the law (as in no violence), even if it offends someone.

 

Although I disagree with the SDL folk and see them as morons the folk that physically stopped them campaigning are just as intolerant and are dangerous to a democratic society too IMO. Fair enough have a counter demonstration but stopping people expressing a view because you don't like it is wrong. That's the price you have to pay if you want to have a free society I am afraid.

 

 

[scoobles]

I went into the centre of Edinburgh a number of years ago to see one of these marches and it's counter-march. The SDL guys were at end the of princess street towards Carlton Hill. There was about 100 maybe behind police and seemed like they just wanted to sing stupid football songs and about German bombers in the air. They looked like they revelled more in the attention and confrontational aspect of the whole thing rather than anything else
The anti-facist counter march seemed peaceful enough but I hear these days many of the protesters on that side are getting much more  militant.
I have noticed with the rise in social media many people in favour of not allowing marches by groups they themselves don't like or have a particular viewpoint on, it also seemed to coincide with this safe space sort of culture that's crept in. SDL marches are one as an example and the orange/republican marches are probably other high profile ones kicking about that some people want outright banned. I don't support any of those 3 groups but I respect the right that a group no matter much I disagree with them they have the right to campaign/demonstrate on a subject providing they do it within the law (as in no violence), even if it offends someone.
 
Although I disagree with the SDL folk and see them as morons the folk that physically stopped them campaigning are just as intolerant and are dangerous to a democratic society too IMO. Fair enough have a counter demonstration but stopping people expressing a view because you don't like it is wrong. That's the price you have to pay if you want to have a free society I am afraid.
 
 

Aberdeen citizens protested the bussed-in Orange Order March years ago.
They haven't been back.
Why should any place allow the introduction of hatred?

[DA Baracus]

Orange Order marches should be banned and all the hideous cretins who take part in them should have their kneecaps removed with an angle grinder.

[Newbornbairn]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Orange Order marches should be banned and all the hideous cretins who take part in them should have their kneecaps removed with a blunt angle grinder.

Agree, but feel you were being unduly lenient.

 

I'd also add in the other lot in Weegieland that march to celebrate whateverthefuck they celebrate.

[Fifes Elite Force]

1 hour ago, scoobles said:

Aberdeen citizens protested the bussed-in Orange Order March years ago.
They haven't been back.
Why should any place allow the introduction of hatred?

Because I don't believe in fighting intolerance with intolerance when it comes to this subject. If you read my post I am fine with people protesting things and I don't believe we should live in a world where silence is golden or anyone shouldn't be able to express an opinion. I would prefer it if we encouraged more safety for people to state their opinion and then the moronic ones can be dismantled logically in discussion, In the same way Nick Griffin was after the massive uproar about him going on question time. In the same way we had the far right marches previously in this country, they never get serious political power because we allow it to be open and allow them to express their actual views for the public to decide and critically debate. By not allowing them to do so it makes martyrs out of them and gives them an excuse to play the the victim card. In the same way Farage did when he was run out of Aberdeen by violent protestors.

 

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Orange Order marches should be banned and all the hideous cretins who take part in them should have their kneecaps removed with an angle grinder.

Aye they are cretins, but some people will call me a cretin for some of my views, possibly the one I have already expressed on the thread. There is also a political basis at the back of orange walks in particular (that many of the people marching won't know but some will) of it which people can agree or disagree with if they wish. Who decides who is a cretin and who isn't? Does the government regulate that which to me sounds far more dangerous, I disagree with religion and government on many things, I'm sure people would call me a cretin if they disagreed. 

 Let them march if they want' nothing happens to me when they do and lets have sensible discussions about the whole thing on political programmes and talk shows etc. Lets also highlight their views and debate them.

On a side note one thing that hasn't cropped up in discussion about marches are the ones for independence that  seem to take place these days with songs about battles from long ago.  Maybe some English people would think some of them are cretins? All very subjective IMO and that's why I would rather keep freedom of speech and right to demonstrate as open as possible. I think before these marches can take place they need to fit certain criteria laid down by the police for safety.too.

 

[Finch road]

^^^^

Cretin

[Fifes Elite Force]

Just now, Finch road said:

^^^^

Cretin

[Newbornbairn]

5 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Because I don't believe in fighting intolerance with intolerance when it comes to this subject. If you read my post I am fine with people protesting things and I don't believe we should live in a world where silence is golden or anyone shouldn't be able to express an opinion. I would prefer it if we encouraged more safety for people to state their opinion and then the moronic ones can be dismantled logically in discussion, In the same way Nick Griffin was after the massive uproar about him going on question time. In the same way we had the far right marches previously in this country, they never get serious political power because we allow it to be open and allow them to express their actual views for the public to decide and critically debate. By not allowing them to do so it makes martyrs out of them and gives them an excuse to play the the victim card. In the same way Farage did when he was run out of Aberdeen by violent protestors.

 

Aye they are cretins, but some people will call me a cretin for some of my views, possibly the one I have already expressed on the thread. There is also a political basis at the back of orange walks in particular (that many of the people marching won't know but some will) of it which people can agree or disagree with if they wish. Who decides who is a cretin and who isn't? Does the government regulate that which to me sounds far more dangerous, I disagree with religion and government on many things, I'm sure people would call me a cretin if they disagreed. 

 Let them march if they want' nothing happens to me when they do and lets have sensible discussions about the whole thing on political programmes and talk shows etc. Lets also highlight their views and debate them.

On a side note one thing that hasn't cropped up in discussion about marches are the ones for independence that  seem to take place these days with songs about battles from long ago.  Maybe some English people would think some of them are cretins? All very subjective IMO and that's why I would rather keep freedom of speech and right to demonstrate as open as possible. I think before these marches can take place they need to fit certain criteria laid down by the police for safety.too.

 

 

What I would say about Orange order marches and other political marches is they should be self financing. If they want roads closed and Police directing traffic and pedestrians, they should pay for it. Why should Council Tax payers have to fund these people?

[EdgarusQPFC]

5 hours ago, LondonHMFC said:

Reads like a David Sullivan transfer offer. 

The "Mega Mosque" sounds like the lair of a really cheesy 80's villain.

Honestly didn't know the SDL was still a thing, all i can picture in my head is Sevco supporters

[Fifes Elite Force]

1 minute ago, NewBornBairn said:

 

What I would say about Orange order marches and other political marches is they should be self financing. If they want roads closed and Police directing traffic and pedestrians, they should pay for it. Why should Council Tax payers have to fund these people?

I don't disagree with that tbh, although I assume there might be reasons why they don't. Maybe to allow smaller group with less money to still be able to have a voice? Albeit I don't know if they would then need as much policing so the costs are less.

I think for football matches Dunfermline only pay for the police in the stadium but the ones outside the ground are not paid for and I assume there is traffic management for some of the bigger games which we don't too.

 

 

 

[Newbornbairn]

Just reading up, Falkirk Council actually gave the Orange Order money to help pay for their parade in 2016 despite them being a group that actively disbars Catholics from membership. 

 

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8416/labour-party-council-leader-votes-give-orange-order-community-funding

[Menzel]

I'm pretty happy to be intolerant if it stops people inciting murder of minorities tbh.

[Fifes Elite Force]

53 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Just reading up, Falkirk Council actually gave the Orange Order money to help pay for their parade in 2016 despite them being a group that actively disbars Catholics from membership. 

 

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8416/labour-party-council-leader-votes-give-orange-order-community-funding

Heard about that at the time. It was bizarre. I assume they badge themselves up as a Christian group of some sort.

 

7 minutes ago, Menzel said:

I'm pretty happy to be intolerant if it stops people inciting murder of minorities tbh.

Or be tolerant and  support laws against murder as an alternative?

 

Additionally just because you are an outspoken critic of something doesn't mean you want to murder folk with a different view. I mean I am pretty outspoken against the church by I don't want to murder church goers. I would want my opinion to allowed though and not violently stopped through force.

[Menzel]

18 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

 

Or be tolerant and support laws against murder as an alternative?

Nope. You wouldn't support a person's freedom of speech to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre and I won't support someone's 'freedom' to advocate the murder of people based on their ethnicity, sexuality or gender. 

20 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

 

Additionally just because you are an outspoken critic of something doesn't mean you want to murder folk with a different view. I mean I am pretty outspoken against the church by I don't want to murder church goers. I would want my opinion to allowed though and not violently stopped through force.

Except the SDL have clear associations with C18, NA, the NF and are comprised of people who, as a point of political principle, incite racial hatred. Having a protest against the Church, as bizarre as that would maybe be or not, would likely not be about openly advocating violence and a loss of civil rights for churchgoers. 

[Fifes Elite Force]

9 minutes ago, Menzel said:

Nope. You wouldn't support a person's freedom of speech to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre and I won't support someone's 'freedom' to advocate the murder of people based on their ethnicity, sexuality or gender. 

Except the SDL have clear associations with C18, NA, the NF and are comprised of people who, as a point of political principle, incite racial hatred. Having a protest against the Church, as bizarre as that would maybe be or not, would likely not be about openly advocating violence and a loss of civil rights for churchgoers. 

The example of the fire is not really a good comparison. Onei causes panic and alarm and deaths. Stating opinions does not. What's the law on stating you are going to murder someone? Out of interest do all SDL members advocate murder? I thought they supported "British values and law" whatever that is.

 

In terms of your second point the march was a protest against a mosque so it's a pretty clear comparison on my point