Present Korea Crisis

[Tight minge]

For much of my working life I worked, travelled and lived in the Far East so I have some understanding of what lies beneath the present tension.
What most people in the west are not aware of is that Japan is despised in most of the countries throughout the far east, especially in China, most of the angst is quietly suppressed owing largely to the amount of business that has emanated from Japan since the end of World War 2

Out with China and Korea no one particularly despises the Japanese, quite the opposite. Japanese culture holds a pretty high esteem in many Asian countries. Most countries despise the Chinese.

On another comment:

Chengdu and X'ian are currently benefiting from the government drive to push manufacturing into the interior, purely to remain competitive as the coastal regions labour costs are now higher than neighbouring countries. Travel outside of the coastal cities and the likes of Chengdu, X'ian and Nanjing and you see a totally different China which hasn't changed much in the last 50 years. China has its own troubles to seek without needing outside influence. Something the government are aware of and have been investing heavily overseas to off set (could be there own 'Marshsll Plan'). China have heavily invested in rare earth minerals and the countries that have them by building ports, rail links and airports throughout mostly Africa and have huge investments throughout the world.

There wouldn't be much of a revolt in China if there were a down turn, the government have been 'propping up' a recession the last few years without much out cry. All the empty cities and failed building projects hardly make headline news.

None of this really has much of a bearing on North Korea.

Japan is the nearest (historic) enemy to North Korea (excluding the South) so firing missiles over the country gets the best reaction.

I don't believe North Korea have any intention of starting a war with anyone, it's a game of 'face' going out of control in an attempt to get to the negotiating table.

[Enigma]

 

People thought the fall of Saddam or Gaddafi would ultimately be good for their respective countries but we're still waiting to see whether that's the case. There's no white knighting here merely providing a context that goes beyond "the leader is fucking mental and the sole threat to world stability". The part about international law is a laugh as well surely? There's dozens of countries whose sovereignty, regimes and citizens are or have been at the mercy of the US military and the CIA.

 

You'd imagine reunification wouldn't come long after regime change, I may be off the mark here but surely a modern functioning democracy stepping in would very much be a stabilising factor for a post-Kim North. There's no Libyan power vacuum as there is somebody there to step in and take the country by the scruff of its neck.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

I wonder how much South Korea actually wants unification with the North, even in the event that the Kim regime falls.

I remember seeing in a documentary that North Koreans who make it to the South are heavily discriminated against.

7 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

People thought the fall of Saddam or Gaddafi would ultimately be good for their respective countries but we're still waiting to see whether that's the case. There's no white knighting here merely providing a context that goes beyond "the leader is fucking mental and the sole threat to world stability". The part about international law is a laugh as well surely? There's dozens of countries whose sovereignty, regimes and citizens are or have been at the mercy of the US military and the CIA.

Haha. Comparing multiethnic Arab countries to Koreans when debating their future. 

[Paco]

 
People thought the fall of Saddam or Gaddafi would ultimately be good for their respective countries but we're still waiting to see whether that's the case. There's no white knighting here merely providing a context that goes beyond "the leader is fucking mental and the sole threat to world stability". The part about international law is a laugh as well surely? There's dozens of countries whose sovereignty, regimes and citizens are or have been at the mercy of the US military and the CIA.

North Korea isn't really comparable to either Iraq or Libya, and to be honest I'd be very surprised if the Kims fall due to American intervention, they have no path to it. It'll be internal revolt or Chinese driven when it eventually happens.

The US/CIA are scum, yes, not sure I said anything to the contrary.

[SandyCromarty]

20 hours ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

 

Out with China and Korea no one particularly despises the Japanese, quite the opposite. Japanese culture holds a pretty high esteem in many Asian countries. Most countries despise the Chinese.

On another comment:

Chengdu and X'ian are currently benefiting from the government drive to push manufacturing into the interior, purely to remain competitive as the coastal regions labour costs are now higher than neighbouring countries. Travel outside of the coastal cities and the likes of Chengdu, X'ian and Nanjing and you see a totally different China which hasn't changed much in the last 50 years. China has its own troubles to seek without needing outside influence. Something the government are aware of and have been investing heavily overseas to off set (could be there own 'Marshsll Plan'). China have heavily invested in rare earth minerals and the countries that have them by building ports, rail links and airports throughout mostly Africa and have huge investments throughout the world.

There wouldn't be much of a revolt in China if there were a down turn, the government have been 'propping up' a recession the last few years without much out cry. All the empty cities and failed building projects hardly make headline news.

None of this really has much of a bearing on North Korea.

Japan is the nearest (historic) enemy to North Korea (excluding the South) so firing missiles over the country gets the best reaction.

I don't believe North Korea have any intention of starting a war with anyone, it's a game of 'face' going out of control in an attempt to get to the negotiating table.


 

 

The Phillipines, Taiwan and Malayasia, Myanmar I'm not sure about as I have not been there and only a few brief times in Indonesia, Brunei, Sarawak and KK were virtually untouched and the interior of what was then Borneo was only of any importance for the export of Lignum Vitae to Europe so not seen as a possible acquisition.  

As I mentioned in my earlier discourse the anti Japanese feelings are suppressed due to the economic benefits reaped from Japanese investment.

As a little aside, during south African apartheid Japanese were classed as white the rest of the Asian population were classed as coloured, this did not go unnoticed in those 'coloured countries'.

The move to the interior by major heavy industrial plants was of some benefit to rural areas and that is China's official standpoint, however having lived and worked in Chengdu and Xian it was explained to many times by senior management that the real reason for the major undertaking was that coastal plants in cities such as Shanghai were deemed vulnerable to air attacks in the event of war, primarily by the Americans from their eastern bases, by moving them inland gave them even a few minutes to defend a missile attack. The cost of moving completed major projects, completed land rigs for export for instance, either by rail or river is a costly exercise.

Labour costs are way lower than in countries like Korea, major shipyards in that country are hiring and housing thousands of Chinese workers, I have also worked in those yards.

In may be of some interest to some readers that Mitsibushi was partly founded by scots, Thomas Glover a Fraserburgh man working for the Scottish firm Jardine Mathieson convinced the local Nagasaki Shogun that they needed a modern shipbuilding industry so to that end Halls of Aberdeen went out to Nagasaki and trained the Japanese in the modern form of shipbuilding, part of the reason Nagasaki was nuked was due to the large Mitsibushi shipyard there. Glovers house still stand there I've visited twice but my on my last visit I noticed it was in real need of refurbishment.

[Tight minge]

The Phillipines, Taiwan and Malayasia, Myanmar I'm not sure about as I have not been there and only a few brief times in Indonesia, Brunei, Sarawak and KK were virtually untouched and the interior of what was then Borneo was only of any importance for the export of Lignum Vitae to Europe so not seen as a possible acquisition.  
As I mentioned in my earlier discourse the anti Japanese feelings are suppressed due to the economic benefits reaped from Japanese investment.
As a little aside, during south African apartheid Japanese were classed as white the rest of the Asian population were classed as coloured, this did not go unnoticed in those 'coloured countries'.
The move to the interior by major heavy industrial plants was of some benefit to rural areas and that is China's official standpoint, however having lived and worked in Chengdu and Xian it was explained to many times by senior management that the real reason for the major undertaking was that coastal plants in cities such as Shanghai were deemed vulnerable to air attacks in the event of war, primarily by the Americans from their eastern bases, by moving them inland gave them even a few minutes to defend a missile attack. The cost of moving completed major projects, completed land rigs for export for instance, either by rail or river is a costly exercise.
Labour costs are way lower than in countries like Korea, major shipyards in that country are hiring and housing thousands of Chinese workers, I have also worked in those yards.
In may be of some interest to some readers that Mitsibushi was partly founded by scots, Thomas Glover a Fraserburgh man working for the Scottish firm Jardine Mathieson convinced the local Nagasaki Shogun that they needed a modern shipbuilding industry so to that end Halls of Aberdeen went out to Nagasaki and trained the Japanese in the modern form of shipbuilding, part of the reason Nagasaki was nuked was due to the large Mitsibushi shipyard there. Glovers house still stand there I've visited twice but my on my last visit I noticed it was in real need of refurbishment.

Are you just quoting old history books there peppered with self indulgent pap or just listing all the places you have been in Asia?

Your such a fountain of knowledge and experience I must be completely wrong then on Japan. The only instance of any semblance of anti Japanese sentiment I have ever experienced was in China a number of years ago over the islands where the Chinese were damaging japanese cars. The anti Japanese sentiment in China is rife, but elsewhere it just does not exist, in my inferior experience. You can list the countries Japan invaded but doesn't mean a thing.

Moving heavy industrial plants to Chengdu to give a few minutes extra on a missile attack. You didn't even snigger when your senior management pals told you that? The fact that
Coastal China has been propelling ahead while the interior has been emptying of a (migrant) workforce descending on the coast. Something unsubstainsble and needing drastically addressed which they are trying to do.

Of course Chinese labour costs are lower than South Korea, but outwith Japan, what are the other 'like' countries. Guangdong labour is now more expensive than Taiwan and even countries like Thailand can compete against China.

Then again none of this has any relevance to the topic. It would be better just to post a list of countries that you have lived and worked in in the 'countries I've visited' thread.

[steve55]

2000: director of a company which wins $200m contract to sell nuclear reactors to North Korea 
2002: declares North Korea a terrorist state, part of the axis of evil and a target for regime change

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.

Mr Rumsfeld was a non-executive director of ABB, a European engineering giant based in Zurich, when it won a $200m (£125m) contract to provide the design and key components for the reactors. The current defence secretary sat on the board from 1990 to 2001, earning $190,000 a year. He left to join the Bush administration.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/may/09/nuclear.northkorea

Can people see what is going on now?  Think about it...

 

[Lurkst]

On Wednesday, September 06, 2017 at 05:04, Enigma said:

 

You'd imagine reunification wouldn't come long after regime change, I may be off the mark here but surely a modern functioning democracy stepping in would very much be a stabilising factor for a post-Kim North. There's no Libyan power vacuum as there is somebody there to step in and take the country by the scruff of its neck.

Yes I'd compare it more with East Germany after the Wall came down. They've done ok since 1990...

 

[Fullerene]

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 00:51, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

The anti Japanese sentiment in China is rife, but elsewhere it just does not exist, in my inferior experience.

 

 

I remember reading that in South Korea, if you wanted to replace your Japanese-style squat toilet with a western-style toilet, the government would pay for it.

Does that count as anti-Japanese?

[Tight minge]

:-) I don't believe the Japanese have a monoply or claim to 'owning' the squat toilet. Pretty much part and parcel of everyday life in Asia.
Japan are way ahead of everyone when it comes to toilets, Japan is anything but bog-standard.

[resk]

The only instance of any semblance of anti Japanese sentiment I have ever experienced was in China a number of years ago over the islands where the Chinese were damaging japanese cars. The anti Japanese sentiment in China is rife, but elsewhere it just does not exist, in my inferior experience. You can list the countries Japan invaded but doesn't mean a thing.

There is anti-Japanese sentiment in South Korea, in my experience. It's getting more common for younger Korean people to travel there now but some still won't go. I remember drinking soju with a Korean colleague my own age (35 at the time, two years ago) and I was telling him about my recent trip across to Japan. He said quietly he'd never been there because "they are the enemy".

Another time during the 2014 World Cup I was playing Sunday football against a Korean team, just before kick off the news came through that Japan had been beaten by a late goal (or eliminated from their group, can't quite remember) and the Koreans all cheered.

There's some small islands that are still disputed between the two nations, plus the comfort women movement and the demand for an official apology / restitution from Japan is quite high profile.

It's quite complex but there is certainly anti-Japanese feeling there - it is often expressed as "I don't dislike Japanese people, I dislike the Japanese government".

(Lived/worked in South Korea for three years, 2013-16.)

[Tight minge]

There is anti-Japanese sentiment in South Korea, in my experience. It's getting more common for younger Korean people to travel there now but some still won't go. I remember drinking soju with a Korean colleague my own age (35 at the time, two years ago) and I was telling him about my recent trip across to Japan. He said quietly he'd never been there because "they are the enemy".

Another time during the 2014 World Cup I was playing Sunday football against a Korean team, just before kick off the news came through that Japan had been beaten by a late goal (or eliminated from their group, can't quite remember) and the Koreans all cheered.

There's some small islands that are still disputed between the two nations, plus the comfort women movement and the demand for an official apology / restitution from Japan is quite high profile.

It's quite complex but there is certainly anti-Japanese feeling there - it is often expressed as "I don't dislike Japanese people, I dislike the Japanese government".

(Lived/worked in South Korea for three years, 2013-16.)

In fairness when I read back my quote I did mean to include South Korea. The comfort women thing is still an on going issue. Out with that it really doesn't exist though. In some of the south East Asian countries having Japanese ancestory is a source of pride.

More just having a dig at the OP and his all knowing knowledge and travel log. Your now another of many P&B'ers who has lived and worked in Asia and have a knowledge of the place. It was just a condescending way about his posts, thats and the lack of substance.

I once interviewed a guy in China for a job. His CV had a run of quick job changes which I was checking. At one point he listed (iirc) working for Canon for 1 month. I asked about that and he replied, 'oh Canon bought the company I worked for'. I said, okay but you only worked for Canon a month what happened, expecting to be told of redundancy. He looked at me as if I was mad and said, 'there Japanese'. I said and? And he launched into a wave of abuse about Japan for the next 10 minutes. Fascinating but he wasn't getting the job.

[resk]

In fairness when I read back my quote I did mean to include South Korea. The comfort women thing is still an on going issue. Out with that it really doesn't exist though. In some of the south East Asian countries having Japanese ancestory is a source of pride.

More just having a dig at the OP and his all knowing knowledge and travel log. Your now another of many P&B'ers who has lived and worked in Asia and have a knowledge of the place. It was just a condescending way about his posts, thats and the lack of substance.

Aye fair enough and I agree with your general gist. It's an interesting point about the apparent lack of anti-Japanese feeling in the other countries they occupied - Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore (not sure about Indonesia?). Maybe if there is a difference it's just a reflection of national characteristics? TBH I've spent a wee bit of time in all those countries but I was mostly just focused on scuba diving and ladyboys.

[Tight minge]

Lived in Philippines, Singapore and Indonesia (and married to an Indonesian) and never came across one cross word about the Japanese but a lot of positive. Indonesians generally have more of a hang up with the Dutch, which even then isn't at all much.
Only really in China that I could say there was much clear hatred of the Japanese, but generally everywhere else hates the Chinese, for more recent transgressions. Filipinos have the love/hate mostly with the Spanish. Thailand and Philippines is real ladyboy territory, need to keep your words about you or you'll end with more than a handful.

Lived out in Asia for a long time now and love nearly everything about it and its a fascinating region and they are a fair few P&B'rs perminantly living, have lived or passing through with, I'm sure, many stories to tell ;-)

[Lofarl]

I for one welcome our large breasted Juche overlords.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

In my limited experience of watching Japanese and Chinese / Koreans interact, it seems like the Japanese behave in a polite manner in the face of extreme rudeness from the other side. It's almost as if they are going out of their way to ignore what's obviously happening, because I find it hard to believe they can be as oblivious as they seem. Is this correct? Or am I off base?

[Savage Henry]

I for one welcome our large breasted Juche overlords.

 

Well more fool you, because careful analysis of that lovely lady reveals she is a he. His name's Simon.

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, Lofarl said:

I for one welcome our large breasted Juche overlords.

North Korea was quite happy to use an attractive female spy to carry out a deadly attack such as when Kim Hyon-hui blew up Korean Air flight 858 in 1987 killing 115 people.

Bizarrely she got numerous marriage proposals from people who did not seem to mind that she was a mass-murderer.

[Crùbag]

Limmy's trolling has elicited some superb replies.

 

[welshbairn]

24 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

Limmy's trolling has elicited some superb replies.