Guess the ground

[HibeeJibee]

That's an interesting shout which I hadn't thought of, actually, but no it isn't Annfield House in Stirling (in the grounds of which Stirling Albion's initial ground was built).

This is Annfield House:


 

[cowdenbeath]

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

 

5 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Is that Annfield House?

Nah that's HJ's pad.

[cowdenbeath]

6 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

That's an interesting shout which I hadn't thought of, actually, but no it isn't Annfield House in Stirling (in the grounds of which Stirling Albion's initial ground was built).

This is Annfield House:


 

Now an old folks home I believe.

[cowdenbeath]

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Duncrab House, Dunning.

[Herman Hessian]

Forgotten home of Bradford Park Avenue, abandoned when club folded in 1974, hailed as ‘Angkor Wat of football’ (clicky link thing)

[7-2]

On 10/21/2017 at 19:09, cowdenbeath said:

Duncrab House, Dunning.

Duncrub apparently.  Whats the connection with a football ground?

[cowdenbeath]

4 minutes ago, 7-2 said:

Duncrub apparently.  Whats the connection with a football ground?

No idea just found HJ's pic on the 'net!

[7-2]

8 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

No idea just found HJ's pic on the 'net!

Ah right. I did some searching but couldn't find any football connection. Cheers.

[HibeeJibee]

It's actually called Duncrub Park, a mansion house in Perthshire, now demolished sadly.

Qualified for the Scottish Cup once, in 1896-97... lost 10-1 at home v Hibs.

[smpar]

On 20/10/2017 at 03:53, Mon Dieu said:

I have no idea.

I'm just going to have a stab in the dark with this one and say:

East End Park - Dundee Stobswell (1996)

 

 

 

Feel three two try and guess m9...

The opening scene in Saving Private Ryan?*

 

 

*according to the ****

[7-2]

18 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

It's actually called Duncrub Park, a mansion house in Perthshire, now demolished sadly.

Qualified for the Scottish Cup once, in 1896-97... lost 10-1 at home v Hibs.

Never heard of it or them before. Thanks.

[Herman Hessian]

On 15/11/2017 at 22:31, HibeeJibee said:

It's actually called Duncrub Park, a mansion house in Perthshire, now demolished sadly.

Qualified for the Scottish Cup once, in 1896-97... lost 10-1 at home v Hibs.

been annoying the f**k out of me all day has this - finally got home and had a chance to take a look at some contemporary OS maps (1894/96/99) and there's nothing near Dunning that is anything like a football pitch, or a pavilion - certainly no grandstands; the park grounds are all wooded or shown as gardens, and there's a playing field near the school - but that has a flagpole in the middle of it and a footpath running right across the middle - then there's this:

9 January 1897 Duncrub Park 1 Hibernians 10 Scottish Cup 1st Round

At Perth, in wintry weather, and before a small crowd, Pryce for the strangers scored five minutes after the start. The Hibernians who were favoured with a strong wind pressed and added a second goal fifteen minutes later. The game became more open and Duncrub had an occasional look in. The Hibernians however showed their superiority, their forward rank being conspicuous by their fine combination. Howie notched a third goal and a few minutes later Breslin, after a nice dribble contributed a fourth. The game was in favour of the Hibernians who played their opponents with the greatest of ease and by half time it was Hibernians seven goals; Duncrub one goal. The game had no sooner been resumed than the Edinburgh men once more had the ball in the net Duncrub were sorely pressed but after a time they infused still greater energy into their play and once or twice carried the ball to the Hibernians’ uprights. They were however immediately repulsed and again the Hibernians players gave the Duncrub players plenty of work to do. A ninth goal was in course of time registered and followed by a tenth.

so - maybe they just took the name of Duncrub Park and played in Perth ? I'd check the local newspaper archives, but really can't be arsed right now

couple of things did come to light; near the park there's a standing stone said to commemorate the site of the Battle of Duncrub - This stone is said to be where Doncha, the Abbot of Dunkeld was slain during the battle of Duncrub, fought in AD 965 between rival factions of the royal line after the death of Kenneth Macalpin in 859. then, just to the south west, there's a monument: It appears out of the low lying mists of the Perthshire countryside, an eerie monument said to mark the spot where witch Maggie Wall was burnt alive in 1657.The monument, a simple cairn with a cross on top, on the outskirts of Dunning, is sometimes adorned with offerings of pennies, feathers and other trinkets, with a wreath said to be laid for Maggie on occasion. But a mystery has always surrounded the identity of Maggie - with experts of witchcraft in Scotland doubting if she ever existed at all.

so - no sign of a football ground, but a couple of bits of local history with which i fully expect you all to be absolutely fucking enthralled !

inevitably, i won't be able to leave it there, so no doubt more to come....

 

and - predictably, at twenty past fucking midnight now - ok - so they difinitely played in Dunning itself as a general rule, but have a track record of giving up home advantage in certain games (cup game against St Johnstone in October 1899, for instance); for the actual cup game in question, they met the Hibernians on Balhousie Park, Perth, on Saturday very stormy weather - it had previously been written that The Hibernians, on finding out that they had been drawn against Duncrub Park, made a rush for a (railway) time-table, but the exact location of the place they have not quite been able to fix as yet.

might be able to turn up some more stuff about the exact location of the pitch in Dunning, but that really is it for now....

Edited November 17, 2017 by Herman Hessian
predictable....

[Herman Hessian]

nothing definitive about the ground yet (other than the fact that Duncrub "had their own private playing area") but some of the notes on matches played in the Perthshire Cup are just fucking brilliant (these are all from the 1880/90's and 1900's)

 

21 Sep Coupar Angus v Fair City Athletic 5-3 - abandoned due to crowd encroachment

8 Oct Blairgowrie Our Boys v Tulloch 6-1 - abandoned due to darkness, awarded to Our Boys

24 Oct Strathearn (Crieff) v Duncrub Park 5-0 - stopped 80 mins due to a snowstorm, result stood

21 Oct Morrisonians v Black Watch 6-0 - originally due on 14 Oct, this was postponed due to some Black Watch players being sent to the Boer War in Africa

4 Mar St Johnstone v Dunblane 2-1 (at Crieff) - (protest that goals were not the correct height)

25 Mar St Johnstone v Dunblane 1-0 (at Stanley 1000) - abd c 50 mins invasion after Arnott of St Johnstone ordered off

7 Dec Dunblane v Vale of Teith 1-2 (unfinished) -  (protest by Dunblane on the grounds of referee’s incompetence and that he tried to strike one of their players) 

 

the other thing that comes out of these records is that Duncrub Park were shite - they got hammered year in and year out, by half a dozen goals or more quite regularly

 

and then there's this - courtesy of the Dunning Local History Society, which i've just found...

 

SHEEP'S BLADDERS, BA' MONEY AND THIRTY ASIDE

A fascinating look at the history of football played in Dunning taken from "Football in Perthshire: Past and Present", written by Peter Baxter in 1898.

It is a peculiarity of Dunning people that when they journey to the county town they usually join the train at Forteviot Station. Such shows a want of proper respect for their own name, some may say; perhaps that may be so, but in the days when there were no railways and when Perth was the central mart for the handloom manufacturers of Dunning, the villagers always went and came by Forteviot, and although the inhabitants of the present day have a station all to themselves, yet it is in such a contrary direction that use and wont, even among the young, carried the day, and Dunningers cheerfully walk three miles instead of two for the pleasure of a good road, and the saving of three pence. The visitor to Dunning who prefers to follow the example of the ordinary villager, walks along, captivated by the nearness of the green Ochils, till suddenly, after a short climb, he sees before him an ivy-covered Norman tower surrounded by a sweet village. But Dunning has also seen stormy times. "The Thorn Tree", in the centre of the village square, was planted to commemorate the burning of the town by the Highlanders in their retreat from Sheriffmuir. The times of peace have, however, predominated, and football has been played in the district from a very early period. In fact, the first playing of the game is lost in the traditions of the village. With certainty the game can be traced back for at least 150 years, which gives us 1747-8, when the inhabitants disported themselves at the "ba'," apart from any club or organisation. The Green, or Common, then existing and situated at the Back Wynd, and extending to the Burn to the north-east of the Parish Churchyard, seems to have been the resort, the front portion of the graveyard being sufficient in olden times for the needs of the parish as regards sepulture. Tradition tells of the great feats in kicking done on the spare ground. It is said that one David Cunningham, who resided in "The Dragon", could kick the ball over the kirk. "Eh, me, he wis a graund hand! Nane could beat Dauvid at kicking o' the ba'." David must have been a modern Samson. It is supposed that in David's day the north aisle of the church was not built. It would be an astounding feat to do such a thing in the present day. An ancient custom that held sway in Dunning was "Ba' Money" for the scholars. This existed long before the advent of the parochial system of education, or the more modern School Board system. Some of the older inhabitants still remembered the custom. When a couple got married and were leaving or coming into the village, the "Ba' Money" (eighteen pence) was demanded, and paid. Each couple were "mulet" in the 1s 6d, and no remission was made on account of being a widow or widower. The practice in Dunning coincides with that of the Guildry Incorporation of Perth about the same time. The earliest information leads to the opinion that the game was played among the parishioners, rather than parish against parish. In these days there were no goalposts, nor any specially prepared apparatus of any kind, other than a line drawn to define the distance of the contending parties. This line was further marked by some big stones or small pins placed in the ground. It was quite common for a field to be selected with a wall at the end, and, if possible, two trees some 9 feet to 12 feet apart, and to have only one goal - a sort of single wicket football. But where the park permitted, even although the extent might be a large one, there were "goaling trees" at both ends. The game was decided, as now, by time. Players were allowed to kick or run with the ball as in present Rugby. Matches were generally played on Han'sel Monday on Gallet-Knowe (Gallows-Hill). The first attempt at using goal-posts was in 1832, at the passing of the first Reform Bill. At that time a company of the 78th Highlanders was stationed at Dunning. They had a regular guard-house, leading off from the Tron Square. The Highlanders used to indulge in the game, and at the time to which we refer, great preparations were made for a match between two sides in the company, which duly came off on the Crofts Farm. A resident of Dunning yet alive remembers seeing the white poles at each end of the field. The result of the game cannot be given, as in those days the soldiers were thought not to be "canny", and the inhabitants kept well back from the play. Some 55 or 56 years ago a great game took place among the villagers on Han'sel Monday in a park almost directly opposite that where the Highlanders played. The players were all heavy weights, and the game was long remembered on account of the number of kicks, falls, and tumbles received. Some years later a stubborn contest took place on Kelty Castle estate, then owned by the Drummonds (now Lord Rollo's) in a field on the "Dookit Lane", between teams from "The Dragon" and "Dunning". The game was one of extraordinary keenness as well as stubbornness, and so well matched were the players in eagerness for the honour of their respective sides that after "five hours" duration neither party had scored a goal. The players again and again responded in the most spirited manner to the calls of their captains, and the game gave promise of being carried into the darkness of the night, when some of the older inhabitants of the town interfered and induced the suspension of hostilities. The last of the old contests in Dunning was played about 45 years ago at the North Crofts, where a fierce contest took place between ploughmen and the weavers. To begin with, every man was clean and tidy, dressed in white moleskin trousers, each side wearing a distinguishing scarf round the waist. The struggle was something terrific, and, at the close, clay and blood adorned nearly all the contestants, and the game ended another battle of Sheriffmuir. In the Dunning games, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five, and even thirty aside were played, and where grievances existed the football match was the place to wipe them out. The style of play and the rules then in existence lent themselves to this abuse. No fouls nor corners existed, and we fancy a referee was never once thought of. Might was right, and go as you please the "modus operandi". The modern Association game was introduced into Dunning some fourteen or fifteen years ago, largely through the instrumentality of the Honourables Eric and Herbert Rollo, Percy Parminter, son of Lord Rollo's private chaplain, Peter Jones, & c. The youths of the village at once formed themselves into a club to revive the glories of the "ba'". Of the first matches of the new Club one was with Pullars', the then leading Club of Perth, and the game ended in a win for Pullars. On the following Saturday, the Perth Abercorn visited Dunning, and got defeated 14-0. Such a performance gave the club a great start. For the past four or five years they have competed for the Perthshire Cup and also for the Scottish Cup. They have never as yet won either, but it is not a little remarkable that "Duncrub Park" have done better in national competition than in the county one. In 1895-6 they only succumbed after a hard struggle to the Dundee Wanderers at Dundee, and last year to the famous Edinburgh Hiberians at Perth. Messrs. T. and J. Wilson, M'Cathie, Callum, Crow, Mailer, Jas. Marshall, Wm. Cunningham (now a member of the Heart of Midlothian Committee), & c., have all at one time or another done good service for the club, and at the present moment their representative, Mr. Harry Christie, is President of the Perthshire Association, and Hon. President of the Perthshire League. Duncrub Park had an invitation to the League, but after considering the matter, decided not to join. This year, Duncrub fell early in the national and county competitions, with the result that the game has gone back as regards enthusiasm, but it is hoped that such a state of matters may soon pass away.

 

 

[Herman Hessian]

right you fuckers - i'm going to bore you in to submission one way or the other, but at least this is a bit more on-topic:

published in around 1900 - use the pictorial clues to guess the Scottish and English grounds (i've not got the definitive answers - only a list that was published of "principal football grounds, to some of which our pictures refer" - amazingly, Duncrub Park was included in this list (hence me finding it) - but I'm not posting this for a while, yet); bear in mind the grounds that would have been current when this was first printed, and there's a third part with another twelve pictures that i've not tracked down just yet

on you trot...

[gruppenfuhrer]

On 26/08/2017 at 00:06, senorsoupe said:

scarborough

[gruppenfuhrer]

On 05/09/2017 at 00:55, sjc said:

the valley ?

[HibeeJibee]

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

That's exactly how I'd imagined you.

[Herman Hessian]

well - there was a Scottish junior club called John Elder in the 1890's, but f**k knows where they played - i've no doubt they stuck half a dozen past Duncrub Park, though....

I'm going to go with the relevance being to St Mirren's former ground Thistle Park - JEFC were the first visitors there on 06/09/1879 and fucked up the hosts' opening day festivities by winning 0-2

Edited November 17, 2017 by Herman Hessian

[HibeeJibee]

John Elder played in the Scottish Cup in 1877-78. Drew 0-0 away to Rovers, 2-2 at home - so they both went through to R2 - then lost 1-0 at Govan.

Following season beat Blackfriar 7-0, Stonefield 4-0, lost 2-0 to Alexandria Athletic... next season walkover from Derby, beat Jordanhill 2-1, lost 2-1 to Southwestern...

Next season lost 7-0 to Queen's Park... finally in 1881-82 walkover from Shawlands Athletic, scratched to Clyde.

What a hero.

Edited November 17, 2017 by HibeeJibee