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bluedragon

Junior Internationals – questions, help, clarification, etc.

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3 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

Eric went to Hearts from Salvesens BC in 1969 and was a regular in the reserves and made his first team debut in Feb 1970.

So sorry cannot help to confirm, just eliminate him from your enquiries.

 

44 minutes ago, Ronson said:

Pretty sure it's Jimmy Carruthers, LRFC

 

36 minutes ago, Ronson said:

Doubt the pair were related.

Thanks for your help and I will make it Jimmy Carruthers.

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The next question is on managers.

Davie McLaggan (Cambuslang Rangers) was the first manager and was appointed for the Junior International played on 8 April 1973 v England at Nuneaton. The month before Scotland has lost to Wales and so his appointment may have been as a result of that.

Paddy Winton (Jeanfield Swifts) was in charge for the next three matches all in the 1974 calendar year.

John Binnie (Linlithgow Rose) took over for the game against England on 18 April 1975 at Walsall. I believe he was in charge for at least the next 8 games until September 1977.

When did John “Yogi” Hughes take over?

As ever, any help will be much appreciated.

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A few questions from the Post-War period up to and including 1959.

Kilsyth Rangers

Does anyone have first names for:

Clinton  1 cap  in1955

Lowe     3 caps  in 1958

I have Ian Gordon signing for Hearts on 20 September 1950. Was he farmed out to Kilsyth for the rest of the 1950/51 season and then capped at Junior level or is this another Gordon?

Gordon             2 caps in 1951

Pryde

There were three players named Prydes capped at around the same time and so far I can seare different players

Willie Pryde (Newtongrange Star) played at the club from 1945/46 to 1950/51 and was capped three times in 1951 at right back

Willie Pryde (Bo’ness United) capped once in 1947 as outside left

[no forename] Pryde (Newburgh) capped three times in 1950 at left half

Does anyone know any different?

McKeenan

McKeenan (Tranent) was capped twice at left back in 1946. McKeenan (Blantyre Victoria) was capped once at left back in 1947. I have seen the Blantyre Vics player’s name spelt McKeeman. Is it the same player or not?

Any help will be very much appreciated.

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22 hours ago, bluedragon said:

A few questions from the Post-War period up to and including 1959.

Kilsyth Rangers

Does anyone have first names for:

Clinton  1 cap  in1955

Lowe     3 caps  in 1958

I have Ian Gordon signing for Hearts on 20 September 1950. Was he farmed out to Kilsyth for the rest of the 1950/51 season and then capped at Junior level or is this another Gordon?

Gordon             2 caps in 1951

 

Micheal Clinton  He was a Kilsyth player during season 1951-52, scoring 13 goals. He moved on to Clyde and Alloa Athletic and was apparently reinstated to Ashfield in 1955 or thereabouts, so if he was capped it was not with us.

I have a photograph of Roy Lowe, together with Jimmy Seivewright and Denis Mochan in their Scotland jerseys taken at a ground with a very large crowd in the background (Hampden)? It was certainly earlier than 1958 as both Jimmy and Denis had moved on from Kilsyth by then. Probably 1955 but could have been 1956, not '57 as Seivewright was near the end of his career by then. He is still with us and living in Lennoxtown, I had some news of him during the last few days,, a group from East Dunbartonshire Leisure are collecting reminiscences from older people in their area to be published as a booklet and Jimmy is one of those selected.

Roy Lowe, as I posted here recently died in Australia jus a few weeks ago. Denis is still a fairly regular attender at Duncansfield.

Ian Gordon. Ian was a regular Kilsyth player during season 1950-51 and certainly played in both sixth round Scottish cup games against Broxburn. Other than that he scored 3 goals during the latter part of the season I have no further record of hiis time at Kilsyth. He moved to Hearts but apparently only made 3 first team appearances (according to Neil Browns A-Z) before moving to Airdrie and then Third Lanark.

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1 hour ago, garrellburn said:

Micheal Clinton  He was a Kilsyth player during season 1951-52, scoring 13 goals. He moved on to Clyde and Alloa Athletic and was apparently reinstated to Ashfield in 1955 or thereabouts, so if he was capped it was not with us.

I have a photograph of Roy Lowe, together with Jimmy Seivewright and Denis Mochan in their Scotland jerseys taken at a ground with a very large crowd in the background (Hampden)? It was certainly earlier than 1958 as both Jimmy and Denis had moved on from Kilsyth by then. Probably 1955 but could have been 1956, not '57 as Seivewright was near the end of his career by then. He is still with us and living in Lennoxtown, I had some news of him during the last few days,, a group from East Dunbartonshire Leisure are collecting reminiscences from older people in their area to be published as a booklet and Jimmy is one of those selected.

Roy Lowe, as I posted here recently died in Australia jus a few weeks ago. Denis is still a fairly regular attender at Duncansfield.

Ian Gordon. Ian was a regular Kilsyth player during season 1950-51 and certainly played in both sixth round Scottish cup games against Broxburn. Other than that he scored 3 goals during the latter part of the season I have no further record of hiis time at Kilsyth. He moved to Hearts but apparently only made 3 first team appearances (according to Neil Browns A-Z) before moving to Airdrie and then Third Lanark.

Thanks Garrelburn,

Michael Clinton – thanks for spotting that. His club affiliation was given as “Kilsyth Rangers” in the original source but when I went back a few minutes ago and checked out the Evening Times it is given as “Ashfield”. I have changed the record.

Jimmy Sievewright/Denis Mochan/Roy Lowe - Just to clarify you say: “I have a photograph of Roy Lowe, together with Jimmy Seivewright and Denis Mochan in their Scotland jerseys”. Is that just Jimmy and Denis in Scotland jerseys? If that is correct then I think the photograph might have been taken at Tynecastle on 16 March 1957 when Jimmy and Denis played against Wales.

Ian Gordon – thanks for the detail that confirms I am not confusing two players with the same name.

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22 hours ago, bluedragon said:

Jimmy Sievewright/Denis Mochan/Roy Lowe - Just to clarify you say: “I have a photograph of Roy Lowe, together with Jimmy Seivewright and Denis Mochan in their Scotland jerseys”. Is that just Jimmy and Denis in Scotland jerseys? If that is correct then I think the photograph might have been taken at Tynecastle on 16 March 1957 when Jimmy and Denis played against Wales.

 

Well, Jimmy and Denis have Scotland badges on their shirts, goalkeeper Roy's does not but I'm pretty certain he would have been playing.

I didn't know where Junior internationals were usually played, didn't really think it would have been Hampden. There is part of a seated stand behind them which looked a bit like the old main stand at Hampden which is why i thought it might be there. There is also another photo of Jimmy taken in action at the same game which has the terracing in the background showing it absolutely full.

Incidentally all these pictures were taken by George Cassidy, a Kilsyth based photographer who was the official photographer to the SJFA in those days. We have quite a few others of the Kilsyth team taken by him, all of a very high standard but some were lost when the old Social club was destroyed by fire back in the late 1990's.

I have no idea what would have happened to his archive of negatives, etc when he died but if they still exist then they would be a real treasure trove of football photos from that era.

Edited by garrellburn

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Just as an afterthought I tried google to see if anything came up for George Cassidy, photographer. Did find one but he is from USA and his work does include many sports photographs, but no junior football I'm afraid. I'll  continue my investigations locally and see if I can turn up anything.

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50 minutes ago, garrellburn said:

Well, Jimmy and Denis have Scotland badges on their shirts, goalkeeper Roy's does not but I'm pretty certain he would have been playing.

I didn't know where Junior internationals were usually played, didn't really think it would have been Hampden. There is part of a seated stand behind them which looked a bit like the old main stand at Hampden which is why i thought it might be there. There is also another photo of Jimmy taken in action at the same game which has the terracing in the background showing it absolutely full.

Incidentally all these pictures were taken by George Cassidy, a Kilsyth based photographer who was the official photographer to the SJFA in those days. We have quite a few others of the Kilsyth team taken by him, all of a very high standard but some were lost when the old Social club was destroyed by fire back in the late 1990's.

I have no idea what would have happened to his archive of negatives, etc when he died but if they still exist then they would be a real treasure trove of football photos from that era.

Thanks Garellburn. What a treasure trove indeed!

Turning to your photograph. Junior Internationals were played at Senior club grounds. I still think Tynecastle might be the best bet. I am wondering if the selected goalkeeper, John Thomson (Glasgow Perthshire), for the match versus Wales was a fitness doubt and Roy Lowe was asked to standby, along with the normal outfield travelling reserve, giving George Cassidy the chance of the photograph of the three Kilsyth players together?  Roy did not make his Junior Scotland debut until 1958 but was probably on the selectors’ radar in 1957. From what I can pick up from the newspapers Jimmy Sievewright was injured after the Tynecastle game and was not therefore selected for the last international of the season in Dublin in which Denis Mochan played.

I will continue to dig away!

Roy Lowe                         3 caps    (1958 I v S; 1958 W v S; 1958 S v RoI)        

Denis Mochan                  2 caps    (1957 S v W; 1957 RoI v S)      

Jimmy Sievewright           9 caps    (1954 W v S; 1954 S v RoI; 1955 S v I; 1955 S v W; 1955 RoI v S; 1956 I v S;1956 W v S; 1957 S v I; 1957 S v W)        

 

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23 hours ago, garrellburn said:

I didn't know where Junior internationals were usually played, didn't really think it would have been Hampden. There is part of a seated stand behind them which looked a bit like the old main stand at Hampden which is why i thought it might be there. There is also another photo of Jimmy taken in action at the same game which has the terracing in the background showing it absolutely full.

The 1957 Scotland versus Wales match at Tynecastle had a crowd on around 6,000. The earlier match in 1957 against Ireland at Firhill had an attendance of 11,000 but only Jimmy Sievewright played in that game.

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36 minutes ago, bluedragon said:

The 1957 Scotland versus Wales match at Tynecastle had a crowd on around 6,000. The earlier match in 1957 against Ireland at Firhill had an attendance of 11,000 but only Jimmy Sievewright played in that game.

I can't actually be sure that both photos were taken at the same match, nothing on them to indicate venue or date taken.No luck in finding out if Mr Cassidys archive still exists. A local historian did try to find out some years ago without success, so looks like they might be lost, a real shame but unfortunately its only in comparitively recent years that we have begun to value that siort of stuff.

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Can I get some more help please?

Forenames for the following players:

Kilsyth Rangers

McGinn - 1 game in 1971

W Lees  - 3 games as captain in 1968

I Morrison - 1 game in 1963

Pearson - 1 game in 1968

Wilson  -  1 game in 1988

Dunipace

McAra   - 2 games in 1950

Paisley  -1 game in 1990

Question

Is “Mulhall (Kilsyth Rangers)” capped once in 1953 George Mulhall later of Aberdeen, Sunderland & Scotland?

                                                                          

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5 hours ago, bluedragon said:

Can I get some more help please?

Forenames for the following players:

Kilsyth Rangers

McGinn - 1 game in 1971 

W Lees  - 3 games as captain in 1968  Walter, went to Watford at end of that season

I Morrison - 1 game in 1963  Tommy, went to Aberdeen, also captained Cambuslang the last time they won Scottish cup

Pearson - 1 game in 1968

Wilson  -  1 game in 1988, Danny, reinstated from Cowdenbeath at start of season

Working on the others

Dunipace

McAra   - 2 games in 1950

Paisley  -1 game in 1990

Question

Is “Mulhall (Kilsyth Rangers)” capped once in 1953 George Mulhall later of Aberdeen, Sunderland & Scotland?

 Yes, brother of Martin who had spell with Falkirk and several other Division "B" clubs                                                                         

 

Edited by garrellburn

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Can I get some more help please?

I am now looking at matches where SJFA XI’s played Junior club sides. So far we have ten such games but there must be more.

The ones we have are:

1939      v Petershill (Benefit)

1952      v Banks o'Dee (Golden Jubilee)

1968      v Bo'ness United (Tercentenary of the town)

1996      v Troon (?)          

1997      v Bathgate Thistle (?)                     

1997      v Irvine Meadow XI (Centenary)

1998      v Arniston Rangers (?)                    

1998      v Maryhill (?)                     

2007      v Petershill (Trial)

2017      v Linlithgow Rose (Trial)

Can anyone add to the list and/or give the purpose of any  of the four matches with a "?" These four matches look like trial matches but I would appreciate confirmation.

Edited by bluedragon

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2 hours ago, bluedragon said:

Can I get some more help please?

I am now looking at matches where SJFA XI’s played Junior club sides. So far we have ten such games but there must be more.

The ones we have are:

1939      v Petershill (Benefit)

1952      v Banks o'Dee (Golden Jubilee)

1968      v Bo'ness United (Tercentenary of the town)

1996      v Troon (?)          

1997      v Bathgate Thistle (?)                     

1997      v Irvine Meadow XI (Centenary)

1998      v Arniston Rangers (?)                    

1998      v Maryhill (?)                     

2007      v Petershill (Trial)

2017      v Linlithgow Rose (Trial)

Can anyone add to the list and/or give the purpose of any  of the four matches with a "?" These four matches look like trial matches but I would appreciate confirmation.

The Maryhill and Arniston ones were in March 98, the month before the Quadrangular tournament - safe to say they were trial games similar to the recent one that took place v Linlithgow. 

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