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Junior Internationals – questions, help, clarification, etc.


bluedragon

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On 28/01/2018 at 12:34, bluedragon said:

4 February 1963 SJFA Amateur XI v SFA Amateur XI (Annfield, Stirling)

Hastings (Nithsdale Wanderers) – forename or even just an initial required.

 

I am now following a lead for "Hastings (Nithsdale Wanderers)" and I hope that someone might be able to help.

Sam Hastings joined Hamilton Accies from Nithsdale Wanderers on 11 May 1957 at 17 years of age. He played seven seasons for Accies (139 league matches & 74 goals). He signed for Clyde from Hamilton Accies on 10 August 1964 and played for eight seasons (217 league appearances & 42 goals). He left Clyde at the end of the 1971/72 season and had short spells at Alloa and Queen of the South in the 1972/73 season before hanging up his boots. So far as I can see Sam Hastings played Senior football continuously and seems to have been a first team regular at Hamilton Accies and there is no sign of a break where he could have been re-instated as Junior. The player I am looking for would have been on an amateur form. He must be a brother or a relative of Sam. It looks too much to be a coincidence otherwise.

I have been given the name of John (Ian) Hastings who played for Whitletts Victoria  (1964-70) and later for Auchinleck Talbot as a possibility. Apart from the name there are two other clues.

1) Nithsdale Wanderers went defunct in 1964 and so could tie in with signing for Whitletts Vics in the same year.

2) With Nithsdale Wanderers playing in Sanquhar a move to a South Ayrshire club looks more likely.

It may of course be a red herring but if anyone can either provide a link or discount it then it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

We need some more help please. This time we are looking for a forename(s) or even just a first initial for the following players. By arranging them in club order and with a year(s) that they played I hope it may help people remember where an old club handbook may be kept  or an old team photograph may be hanging that might give a forename/initial to at least some of these players.

Thank you.

Ardrossan Winton Rovers              Lindsay                 1922

Arniston Rangers                                 Mable                   1923

Ashfield                                                       Bain                      1912; Barrowman         1900; Campbell             1917; Dewar                  1905; Dysart                  1901

Banks o' Dee                                            Webster               1926

Bellshill Athletic                                    Lilly                       1905

Benburb                                                      Leslie                    1890; McDonald           1894

Blantyre Victoria                                  Beadle                  1920; Hutchison            1904; Paterson              1894; Robertson           1915

Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic                  Easton                  1898

Cambuslang Rangers                         Chalmers             1918-19; McIntosh             1921

Clydebank Juniors                               Lang                     1922

Darvel                                                          Allan                     1927; Findlay                 1927; Nisbet                  1906

Girvan                                                         Murray                 1920

Glasgow Perthshire                           Bennie                  1927; Houston               1899; Keith                     1926; Knox                     1927; McDonald           1900; McKay                  1921

Larkhall Thistle                                    Creechan             1924

Maryhill                                                    Johnstone           1921

Muirkirk                                                    Grant                    1915

Penicuik                                                    Hornal                  1922

Pollok                                                         Stenton                1922

Renfrew                                                    Brown                  1916-20; Croall                   1914

Shettleston                                             Jamieson             1924

Tranent                                                      Gray                      1912; Pow                      1922

Vale of Clyde                                         Cunningham       1899; Lavity                   1904; Linnen               1899; Livingstone    1894; Ritchie           1900; Smith               1904; Whyte                  1898

Yoker Athletic                                      Hillis                      1925; Kennedy               1927; Prentice               1891

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Just been handed three photographs this afternoon dating from the early 1920's.

One is a team photo with officials of an SJFA select v Ayrshire  at Meadow Park, Irvine, dated 9th Feb 1924. All are named (no forename initial) with their clubs.

The second is of a Scottish Junior League  Football Association team but no date or player names. On the back is a list of 15 games with dates, opposition and venues. The opposition teams are variously, Scottish, English and both Senior clubs and selects.

The third has no details but shows a team photo with officials and a ball boy. Just guessing but it looks very like  the Kilsyth hills in the background.

 They came with a note saying they were found when the sender was clearing a relatives house. If these are of any interest to you, PM me and I will have them copied to send to you.

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2 hours ago, garrellburn said:

Just been handed three photographs this afternoon dating from the early 1920's.

One is a team photo with officials of an SJFA select v Ayrshire  at Meadow Park, Irvine, dated 9th Feb 1924. All are named (no forename initial) with their clubs.

The second is of a Scottish Junior League  Football Association team but no date or player names. On the back is a list of 15 games with dates, opposition and venues. The opposition teams are variously, Scottish, English and both Senior clubs and selects.

The third has no details but shows a team photo with officials and a ball boy. Just guessing but it looks very like  the Kilsyth hills in the background.

 They came with a note saying they were found when the sender was clearing a relatives house. If these are of any interest to you, PM me and I will have them copied to send to you.

Many thanks Garrellburn. I have sent you a PM.

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Thank you for all the help so far from various quarters on providing a forename(s)/ initial(s) for these players. Here is where we stand now with the additions shown in bold and underlined.

Ardrossan Winton Rovers – Lindsay (1922).

Arniston Rangers – Mable (1923).

Ashfield - Bain (1912);  D (possibly David) Barrowman (1900); Neil "Neilly" Campbell (1917); Dewar (1905); Dysart (1901).

I have seen the Ashfield centenary book written by Charlie McCulloch and published in 1986. It has an excellent summary of results, league tables, etc. but not so much on players. I understand another book was published in around 2007. Can anyone help please? 

Banks o' Dee - W Webster (1926).

Bellshill Athletic - Robert Lilly (1905).

Benburb - Leslie (1890); J McDonald (1894).

Blantyre Victoria - Beadle William AC  Beedie (1920); Hutchison (1904); J Paterson (1894); Robertson (1915).

Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic - Easton (1898).

Cambuslang Rangers David Chalmers (1918-19); McIntosh (1921).

Clydebank Juniors - James Laing (1922).

Darvel William Allan (1927); Findlay (1927); Nisbet (1906).

Girvan - Murray (1920).

Glasgow Perthshire – Bennie (1927); Houston (1899); Keith (1926); Knox (1927); McDonald  (1900); McKay (1921).

Larkhall Thistle - "Wee Dykie" Creechan (1924).

He played for New Stevenston United (1921/22), Dykehead (1922/23), Larkhall Thistle (1923/24),  St Roch's (1924/25),  Parkhead (1925/27) and Quarter United (1930/31).

Maryhill - Johnstone (1921).

Muirkirk  - Grant (1915).

Penicuik Charles Hornal (1922).

Pollok - Stenton (1922).

Renfrew - Brown (1916-20); Harry Croall (1914).

Shettleston – Jamieson (1924).

Tranent  - Bobby Gray (1912); William "Willie" Pow (1922).

Vale of Clyde - Cunningham (1899); William Laviety (1904); Linnen 1899; D Livingston(e) (1894); Charles Ritchie  (1900); Smith (1904); Whyte (1898),

Yoker Athletic – Hillis (1925); Kennedy (1927); Prentice (1891).

Edited by bluedragon
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On ‎03‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 20:46, bluedragon said:

A great photograph! Thanks for posting it.

This photograph was taken at Manor Park, Nuneaton on 8 April 1973. The old ground, now long gone, was one of the biggest non-league grounds in England. It is also the first game when a manager was appointed to the team.

The score was:

England 1(1) Scotland 5 (2)

The goalscorers were:

England scorer: Holmes - Scotland scorers: Bell, Pettigrew 2, Steele 2 (1 penalty)

Laurie Swan was originally selected in the starting XI but failed a fitness test immediately before the game and substitute Gibby Kerr took his place leaving just a goalkeeper on the bench. I am not sure if Laurie was fit enough to sit on the bench as a substitute to be used in a real emergency or whether he stripped just for the photograph and then took no further part in proceedings.

Here are the names of the fifteen people in the photograph. Can anyone else add more names to faces?

Starting XI:

John Young (Carluke Rovers)

Jim Scott (Cumbernauld United)

Sandy Calder (Mugiemoss)

John Crooks (Cumnock)

Jackie Mordue (Cambuslang Rangers)

Gibby Kerr (Lanark United)

John Cummings (Cambuslang Rangers)

Brian Bell (Kello Rovers)

Willie Pettigrew (East Kilbride Thistle) – sitting middle of front row with the ball at his feet

Billy Steele (Benburb) – sitting second from the right

Willie McCallum (Cambuslang Rangers)

Substitutes:

Davie Nicholls (Dundee Osborne) – goalkeeper

Laurie Swan (Newburgh) – standing far left

Manager:

Davie McLaggan (Cambuslang Rangers) – standing back row extreme right

Trainer/Physio:

Dunky Black (Irvine Meadow XI) - crouching front row extreme left

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

For those of you following this thread here is a quick update.

We have identified 354 matches that cover internationals, county matches, benefit games and trials played by the SJFA XI. The information on the international matches is largely complete although we are missing some goal scorers from early matches and a few other bits and pieces. The main gaps are in the non-international matches where we know there are many more and of those we know about some line-ups are unknown and other details are sketchy.

In all the matches we have it produces a list of 2,033 players and of those we do not have a forename(s) or even a first initial for 102 .

We have had great help from posters here in the past and so I thought I would try again with the up-to-date list of these 102 players. As ever, any help will be very much appreciated.

I have divided the players into two lists – Present clubs and Defunct clubs. The lists are in alphabetical order of club and the year after each player’s name is the year they played for the SJFA XI.

A quick word on the definition of “Present” and “Defunct”.  I have taken this quite literally. So Girvan [1] is not today’s Girvan club that dates from 1944. Similarly Benburb [1] is an earlier club with the same name as today’s club. Although Mugiemoss was one of the two clubs that amalgamated to form Dyce FC I have treated it as defunct. Any mistakes in the definitions will be mine so do let me know.

PRESENT CLUBS

Arniston Rangers [2] - Mable  (1923)

Ashfield - Bain  (1912); Dewar  (1905); Dysart  (1901)

Blantyre Victoria - Hutchison  (1904); Robertson  (1915)

Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic - Easton  (1898)

Cambuslang Rangers [2] - McIntosh  (1921)

Darvel - Findlay  (1927); Nisbet  (1906)

Glasgow Perthshire - Bennie  (1927); Houston  (1899); Keith  (1926); Knox  (1927); McDonald  (1900); McKay  (1921)

Kilsyth Rangers [2] - Brown  (1922)

Maryhill - Johnstone  (1921)

Muirkirk - Grant  (1915)

Renfrew - Brown  (1916 & 1920)

Saltcoats Victoria (2) - Struthers  (1965)

Shettleston - Jamieson  (1924)

Vale of Clyde - Cunningham  (1899); Linnen  (1899); Smith  (1904); Whyte  (1898); Hillis  (1925)

Yoker Athletic - Kennedy  (1927); Prentice  (1891)

DEFUNCT CLUBS

Airdrieonians 'A' - McKinlay  (1896)

Argyll (Aberdeen) - Cotton  (1926)

Benburb [1] - Leslie  (1890)

Blantyre Celtic - Hannigan  (1924); Stewart  (1920)

Burnbank Athletic [1] - Wallace  (1897)

Burnbank Athletic [2] - Hunter  (1927); Thomson  (1920)

Cadzow Oak - McNair  (1901)

Cadzow St Anne's - McNulty  (1926)

Cambuslang Hibernian - McCue  (1896)

Captain Colt's Rovers - Boag  (1896)

Coalburn - Kerr  (1929)

Corporation Cleansing Department - Wilson  (1928)

Crown Athletic [1] - McCulloch  (1893); Young  (1895)

Dalry Primrose - McDonald  (1898)

Dalziel Rovers - Irvine  (1907); Johnston  (1901)

Denny Athletic - Buist  (1905)

Douglas Water Thistle - Henderson  (1913)

Drongan - Morrison  (1920)

Dumbarton Albion - Cairney  (1898)

Dunaskin Lads - Logan  (1921)

Dundee Arnot - Graham  (1908)

Dundee Harp - Donald  (1922)

Dunrobin Athletic - Taylor  (1890)

Duntocher Hibernian [1] - Grieve  (1904); Smith  (1899)

Earnock Rovers [2]  - Miller  (1909)

Edinburgh Renton [1] - Grant  (1897); Winton  (1899)

Edinburgh Rosebery - Hay  (1922); Short  (1922)

Errol - Scott  (1963)

Girvan (1) - Murray  (1920)

Grange Rovers - McIntosh  (1931); McNair  (1905)

Hamilton West End Rangers - Gray  (1889 & 1890); Rowan  (1889); Sneddon  (1890)

Harthill Athletic [1] - Halliday  (1897)

Kelburne - Murray  (1896)

Lenzie [2] - Grey  (1897)

Maryhill Myrtle - Shearer  (1893)

Milngavie - Kyle  (1890); Ross  (1891)

Moore Park - Hosie  (1897)

Mossend Celtic - McNamee  (1893)

Mugiemoss - Tough  (1911)

Muirkirk Ex-Service Athletic - Welsh  (1920)

Neilston Victoria - Gowans  (1906)

Nithsdale Wanderers - Hastings  (1963)

Old Kilpatrick [3] - Stewart  (1922)

Parkhead - Murray  (1898); Nicol  (1897)

Possilpark - McFarlane  (1889)

Renfrew Victoria - Campbell  (1904); Wylie  (1895)

Shotts United - Timmins  (1917)

St Johnstone YMCA - Paterson  (1926)

St Ninian's Thistle - Clark  (1908)

Stevenston Thistle - McMaster  (1917)

Stirling Emmet [2] - Walls  (1923)

Strathclyde [2] - Brown  (1903); Crum  (1898); Harley  (1900); Leslie  (1900); Martin  (1913); McMurray  (1927); Montgomery  (1897)

Thornliebank Juniors - Steveley  (1898)

Woodburn - Gibson  (1889)

Edited by bluedragon
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  • 2 weeks later...
For those of you following this thread here is a quick update.
We have identified 354 matches that cover internationals, county matches, benefit games and trials played by the SJFA XI. The information on the international matches is largely complete although we are missing some goal scorers from early matches and a few other bits and pieces. The main gaps are in the non-international matches where we know there are many more and of those we know about some line-ups are unknown and other details are sketchy.
In all the matches we have it produces a list of 2,033 players and of those we do not have a forename(s) or even a first initial for 102 .
We have had great help from posters here in the past and so I thought I would try again with the up-to-date list of these 102 players. As ever, any help will be very much appreciated.
I have divided the players into two lists – Present clubs and Defunct clubs. The lists are in alphabetical order of club and the year after each player’s name is the year they played for the SJFA XI.
A quick word on the definition of “Present” and “Defunct”.  I have taken this quite literally. So Girvan [1] is not today’s Girvan club that dates from 1944. Similarly Benburb [1] is an earlier club with the same name as today’s club. Although Mugiemoss was one of the two clubs that amalgamated to form Dyce FC I have treated it as defunct. Any mistakes in the definitions will be mine so do let me know.
PRESENT CLUBS
Arniston Rangers [2] - Mable  (1923)
Ashfield - Bain  (1912); Dewar  (1905); Dysart  (1901)
Blantyre Victoria - Hutchison  (1904); Robertson  (1915)
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic - Easton  (1898)
Cambuslang Rangers [2] - McIntosh  (1921)
Darvel - Findlay  (1927); Nisbet  (1906)
Glasgow Perthshire - Bennie  (1927); Houston  (1899); Keith  (1926); Knox  (1927); McDonald  (1900); McKay  (1921)
Kilsyth Rangers [2] - Brown  (1922)
Maryhill - Johnstone  (1921)
Muirkirk - Grant  (1915)
Renfrew - Brown  (1916 & 1920)
Saltcoats Victoria (2) - Struthers  (1965)
Shettleston - Jamieson  (1924)
Vale of Clyde - Cunningham  (1899); Linnen  (1899); Smith  (1904); Whyte  (1898); Hillis  (1925)
Yoker Athletic - Kennedy  (1927); Prentice  (1891)
DEFUNCT CLUBS
Airdrieonians 'A' - McKinlay  (1896)
Argyll (Aberdeen) - Cotton  (1926)
Benburb [1] - Leslie  (1890)
Blantyre Celtic - Hannigan  (1924); Stewart  (1920)
Burnbank Athletic [1] - Wallace  (1897)
Burnbank Athletic [2] - Hunter  (1927); Thomson  (1920)
Cadzow Oak - McNair  (1901)
Cadzow St Anne's - McNulty  (1926)
Cambuslang Hibernian - McCue  (1896)
Captain Colt's Rovers - Boag  (1896)
Coalburn - Kerr  (1929)
Corporation Cleansing Department - Wilson  (1928)
Crown Athletic [1] - McCulloch  (1893); Young  (1895)
Dalry Primrose - McDonald  (1898)
Dalziel Rovers - Irvine  (1907); Johnston  (1901)
Denny Athletic - Buist  (1905)
Douglas Water Thistle - Henderson  (1913)
Drongan - Morrison  (1920)
Dumbarton Albion - Cairney  (1898)
Dunaskin Lads - Logan  (1921)
Dundee Arnot - Graham  (1908)
Dundee Harp - Donald  (1922)
Dunrobin Athletic - Taylor  (1890)
Duntocher Hibernian [1] - Grieve  (1904); Smith  (1899)
Earnock Rovers [2]  - Miller  (1909)
Edinburgh Renton [1] - Grant  (1897); Winton  (1899)
Edinburgh Rosebery - Hay  (1922); Short  (1922)
Errol - Scott  (1963)
Girvan (1) - Murray  (1920)
Grange Rovers - McIntosh  (1931); McNair  (1905)
Hamilton West End Rangers - Gray  (1889 & 1890); Rowan  (1889); Sneddon  (1890)
Harthill Athletic [1] - Halliday  (1897)
Kelburne - Murray  (1896)
Lenzie [2] - Grey  (1897)
Maryhill Myrtle - Shearer  (1893)
Milngavie - Kyle  (1890); Ross  (1891)
Moore Park - Hosie  (1897)
Mossend Celtic - McNamee  (1893)
Mugiemoss - Tough  (1911)
Muirkirk Ex-Service Athletic - Welsh  (1920)
Neilston Victoria - Gowans  (1906)
Nithsdale Wanderers - Hastings  (1963)
Old Kilpatrick [3] - Stewart  (1922)
Parkhead - Murray  (1898); Nicol  (1897)
Possilpark - McFarlane  (1889)
Renfrew Victoria - Campbell  (1904); Wylie  (1895)
Shotts United - Timmins  (1917)
St Johnstone YMCA - Paterson  (1926)
St Ninian's Thistle - Clark  (1908)
Stevenston Thistle - McMaster  (1917)
Stirling Emmet [2] - Walls  (1923)
Strathclyde [2] - Brown  (1903); Crum  (1898); Harley  (1900); Leslie  (1900); Martin  (1913); McMurray  (1927); Montgomery  (1897)
Thornliebank Juniors - Steveley  (1898)
Woodburn - Gibson  (1889)
Very interesting reading and great to see someone with such a passion for the Junior game. Can anyone tell me if there are any International trials or matches planned for 2018? Something I personally would like to attend
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On 21/03/2018 at 10:31, naetshirt said:

Very interesting reading and great to see someone with such a passion for the Junior game. Can anyone tell me if there are any International trials or matches planned for 2018? Something I personally would like to attend

Thanks. It has been very interesting gathering all the details. We have come across some interesting characters and stories along the way! We currently have 361 matches. We are still trying to find forenames for around 100 players but they are all from 1931 and earlier and when the newspapers just used surnames.

I think you will have a wait to see the Junior Scotland team play again. The Quadrangular tournament, last held in October 2017, is not an annual event.  

Going back to “interesting characters and stories” and Dunipace…….

We have found another Westwater from Dunipace from 1908 to add to the others mentioned earlier on in the thread. The last two are related but what about the first two? Do we have four generations of the same family?

John Westwater (Dunipace) played for SJFA XI against Aberdeenshire JFA in 1908.

George Westwater (Dunipace) capped three times in 1924

Willie Westwater (Dunipace) capped in 1952 and went on to play for Kilsyth Rangers and won the Junior Cup with them.

Alan Westwater, son of Willie, was capped for Australia in the late 1960’s and played in all three matches against Scotland in the 1967 Scotland World Tour.

Edited by bluedragon
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6 hours ago, bluedragon said:

Thanks. It has been very interesting gathering all the details. We have come across some interesting characters and stories along the way! We currently have 361 matches. We are still trying to find forenames for around 100 players but they are all from 1931 and earlier and when the newspapers just used surnames.

I think you will have a wait to see the Junior Scotland team play again. The Quadrangular tournament, last held in October 2017, is not an annual event.  

Going back to “interesting characters and stories” and Dunipace…….

We have found another Westwater from Dunipace from 1908 to add to the others mentioned earlier on in the thread. The last two are related but what about the first two? Do we have four generations of the same family?

John Westwater (Dunipace) played for SJFA XI against Aberdeenshire JFA in 1908.

George Westwater (Dunipace) capped three times in 1924

Willie Westwater (Dunipace) capped in 1952 and went on to play for Kilsyth Rangers and won the Junior Cup with them.

Alan Westwater, son of Willie, was capped for Australia in the late 1960’s and played in all three matches against Scotland in the 1967 Scotland World Tour.

I have just been told of two more Westwaters at Dunipace.

In 1912 John Westwater was joined by his brother William in the first team and another brother, Peter, in the A team.

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As a few more matches emerge we have only one missing forename from 1931 and after. Can anyone help with the forename of a former Glenafton Athletic full back with the surname Jaap?

He was at Glenafton in 1961. I do not think he played Senior football.  There was a Calum Jaap who played in the 1970’s and very early 1980’s. He was a centre half, had a brief spell with Queen’s Park but mostly played in the Juniors (including Kilwinning Rangers, Ardrossan Winton Rangers, Troon & Irvine Victoria). He may be a relation given the uncommon surname.

Thank you.

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3 hours ago, bluedragon said:

As a few more matches emerge we have only one missing forename from 1931 and after. Can anyone help with the forename of a former Glenafton Athletic full back with the surname Jaap?

He was at Glenafton in 1961. I do not think he played Senior football.  There was a Calum Jaap who played in the 1970’s and very early 1980’s. He was a centre half, had a brief spell with Queen’s Park but mostly played in the Juniors (including Kilwinning Rangers, Ardrossan Winton Rangers, Troon & Irvine Victoria). He may be a relation given the uncommon surname.

Thank you.

Problem solved! 

A friend has found that “Jaap” is actually the John L Japp who also played against Northern Ireland in 1961 before going on to have a season at Third Lanark (1961/62) and Hamilton Academical (1962/63).

For those interested we hope to make another, updated version of the database available soon. We are doing some last checks at present. For those who have helped so far there are still gaps that need to be filled! As always, we would also be very interested if anyone spots any errors or has additional information.

We have 2,070 players named but are still looking for some line-ups and goalscorers in the 363 matches we have listed. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

First of all thank you for all the help in filling in gaps in the records of Scottish Junior Football Association XI matches and players.  As a result of this help and our further work here is a link to the second and updated version of the records. The first version was issued on 7 January 2018.

http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.nf/scotlandjuniorinternationals.xlsx

We have been able to add a further 16 matches to make a total of 368. We believe we have found all the international matches played against the other countries in the British Isles but there are probably other games, e.g. friendlies, benefits, etc. still to be found. We have 2,088 players listed and we are only missing 116 forenames. However, we have some missing line-ups with 408 players’ names missing.

In this update, alongside the additional matches, we have also included more forenames of players, details of captains, trainers and managers and, where we can find it, notes of substitutes who were used.

We would appreciate any more help that you can give. Some of the gaps are from fairly recent matches and so someone might have an old programme or teamsheet hidden away somewhere that might help. On the other hand, someone might have played in one of the matches!

If anyone spots any errors or has contradictory information on a match or a player do please let us know so that we can investigate it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Our next stage is to try and find as many team photographs as we can. Our plan is simply to include a note or a link in the record of where to find a photograph. So, for example, in the line-ups included in the Centenary book we will add a note to say “The Juniors 100 Years. A Centenary History of Scottish Junior Football”.

I have been looking through the gallery of photographs on the SJFA website.

http://www.scottishjuniorfa.com/sjfa/football_image_libraries.cfm?page=1830

Most of them have details of the year/match in the title but two don’t. Can anyone help please?

1st Row Left-hand column – This has the title “SJFAInternational”. Can anyone help with identifying a few players and/or the background as I should be able to find the match details with that help.

10th Row Right-hand column – This has the title “Isle of Man_320”.  With one of the players wearing a SFA top with a Morrison logo and the high rise flats  in the background my guess is that this is the match versus the Isle of Man at Petershill Park on 30 April 2005. Again, can anyone confirm or provide some players’ names.

Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Sandgrownun said:

Bryan Dingwall's in both of them. Maybe the guy Swift in the first (fifth from left, standing)?

Stadium in the first could be the old Tinto Park? Or possibly old Petershill Park?

Thanks Sandgrownun.

The positive ID of Bryan Dingwall is a great help.

First photograph - 1st Row Left-hand column

After your suggestion I agree the background looks very much like the covered enclosure at the old Petershill Park. Bryan played at Petershill Park for Junior Scotland on three occasions (twice in 2005 and once in 2007). As I understand it the old Petershill Park closed in 2005. Taking those great clues together I now believe the photograph is of the squad for the 2005 Quadrangular Tournament. There are 19 people in the photograph. 18 of those look to be wearing match shirts and I have 18 players listed in the squad.

Stevie Agnew (Glenafton Athletic)

Joe Carruth (Glenafton Athletic)

Bryan Dingwall (Maryhill)

Robert Downs (Arthurlie)

Andy Essler (Maryhill)

Gavin Friels (Pollok)

Raymond Logan (Pollok)

Martin McGarvey (Arthurlie)

Martin McLaughlan (Pollok)

Stevie Miller (Maryhill)

Roberto Morris (Tayport)

Scott Peters (Tayport)

Iain Ross (Lochee United)

Zander Ryan (Arthurlie)

Danny Smith (Linlithgow Rose)

John Ward (Tayport)

Gary Wilson (Arthurlie)

Ian Wilson (Pollok)

Second photograph - 10th Row Right-hand column

Bryan Dingwall played three times against the Isle of Man. If I am correct with the first photograph this one is not from 2005. The other games were 2008 in the Isle of Man and 2010 in Northern Ireland.  I am wondering if the player third from the left who is partly obscured is Joe Mbu (Whitburn) who only played once against the Isle of Man in 2008.  However, there are two issues. First, the background looks like a very built-up area with flats while these two games were played at more rural settings. Secondly, the Morrison SFA sponsorship deal ended in 2006 so are the two players wearing SFA “hand-me-downs” ? Here is squad for that game.

Richie Barr (Cumnock)

Tom Courts (Kelty Hearts)

Bryan Dingwall (Pollok)

Stephen Docherty (Bathgate Thistle)

Kris Doolan (Auchinleck Talbot)

Robert Downs (Pollok)

Roger Duffin (Hill of Beath Hawthorn)

Marc Graham (Hill of Beath Hawthorn)

Callum Hardie (Lochee United)

Gordon Herd (Linlithgow Rose)

Paul Hilland (Irvine Meadow XI)

Stuart MacDonald (Cumnock)

Joe Mbu (Whitburn)

Brian McKeown (Pollok)

Gary Middleton (Lochee United)

Iain Ross (Lochee United)

Mark Tyrell (Linlithgow Rose)

Gary Wilson (Pollok)

Can anyone make any more positive IDs ?

Thank you.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sandgrownun said:

Downs is far right standing in first one and far left in second one.

Joe Mbu can just be seen behind whoever is second left in the second one, and Danny Smith is in fact the one I thought might have been Swift in the first one.

Thanks Sandgrownun that confirms the team in both photographs.

First photograph – squad for 2005 Quadrangular Tournament

Second photograph – team that played the Isle of Man in the 2008 Quadrangular Tournament.

Thank you.

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Here is what we currently believe to be the full list of players who have won Junior and Full caps for Scotland. The following list shows next to the players' name the Junior and Senior clubs where they were playing at the time and is in alphabetical order of Junior club. The Junior caps are those won playing against teams representing England, Wales, Ireland, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. At the bottom of the list is a second list of full caps who only represented the SJFA against non-international opposition.

As ever, if anyone spots an error, has different information or has a question do please just let me know.

John Anderson (Arthurlie - Leicester City)

Andy Weir (Arthurlie - Motherwell)

Johnny Kelly (Arthurlie - Barnsley)

Stevie Chalmers (Ashfield - Celtic)

Johnnie Crum (Ashfield - Celtic)

Jimmy Johnstone (Blantyre Celtic - Celtic)

Paul Wilson (Blantyre Celtic - Celtic)

Jimmy Brownlie (Blantyre Victoria - Third Lanark)

Alex Scott (Bo'ness United - Rangers & Everton)

Jim Scott (Bo'ness United - Hibernian)

Pat Quinn (Bridgeton Waverley - Motherwell)

Bob Foyers (Burnbank Swifts - St Bernards)

Kenny Campbell (Cambuslang Rangers - Liverpool and Partick Thistle)

Bobby Walker (Dalry Primrose - Heart of Midlothian)

Nicol Smith (Darvel - Rangers)

Peter Nellies (Douglas Water Thistle - Heart of Midlothian)

Scot Symon (Dundee Violet - Rangers)

Pat Crerand (Duntocher Hibernian - Celtic and Manchester United)

Willie Pettigrew (East Kilbride Thistle  - Motherwell)

James Croal (Falkirk Juniors - Falkirk)

Jimmy Connor (Glasgow Perthshire - Sunderland)

James Lawrence (Glasgow Perthshire - Newcastle United)

Willie/Gooley Muir (Glenbuck Athletic - Dundee)

Jock Brown (Glenburn Rovers & Shawfield - Clyde)

Harry Rennie (Greenock Volunteers - Heart of Midlothian and Hibernian)

Bobby Templeton (Kilmarnock Rugby XI - Aston Villa, Newcastle United, Woolwich Arsenal and Kilmarnock)

Drew Jarvie (Kilsyth Rangers - Airdrieonians)

George Mulhall (Kilsyth Rangers - Aberdeen and Sunderland)

Robert Beattie (Kilwinning Rangers - Preston North End)

Hugh Morgan (Longriggend Wanderers - St Mirren and Liverpool.)

Donald Colman (Maryhill - Aberdeen)

Willie Lennie (Maryhill - Aberdeen)

Dougie Gray (Mugiemoss - Rangers)

Benny Yorston (Mugiemoss - Aberdeen)

Dixie Deans (Neilston - Celtic)

Andrew Cunningham (Newmilns - Rangers)

Dave Mackay (Newtongrange Star - Heart of Midlothian and Tottenham Hotspur)

George Key (Parkhead - Heart of Midlothian)

Tommy Low (Parkhead - Rangers)

James Raeside (Parkhead - Third Lanark)

Andrew Richmond (Parkhead - Queen's Park)

Matt Armstrong (Port Glasgow Athletic Juniors - Aberdeen)

Jimmy Gordon (Renfrew Victoria - Rangers)

Bobby Hogg (Royal Albert - Celtic)

Alexander Bennett (Rutherglen Glencairn - Celtic and Rangers)

Bobby Dougan (Shawfield - Heart of Midlothian)

Brian Martin (Shotts Bon Accord - Motherwell)

Jack Fyfe (South Western - Third Lanark)

John Gilchrist (St Anthony's - Rangers)

Tommy McInally (St Anthony's - Celtic)

Jimmy Dunn (St Anthony's - Hibernian and Everton)

James Hamilton (Vale of Clyde - St Mirren)

Danny Liddle (Wallyford Bluebell - East Fife)

Ian Wallace (Yoker Athletic - Coventry City)

SJFA matches played against non-international opposition

Jimmy Easson (Carnoustie Panmure - Portsmouth)

Kenny Dalglish (Cumbernauld United - Celtic and Liverpool)

Gordon Smith (Dundee North End - Hibernian)

Charles Pringle (Maryhill - St Mirren)

David Stewart (Minerva - Queen's Park)

Jim Brogan (St Roch's - Celtic)

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