Dumbarton vs Dunfermline Athletic

[The Moonster]

Just now, Poet of the Macabre said:

I'm amazed anyone is willing to pay it. Most annoying will be the people who complain and still head along.

The alternative for Dumbarton fans is don't go and watch the club suffer, with a high probability of relegation I don't really see this as a time to boycott. To be honest, paying 2 quid more than I did last season isn't really affecting my decision to go, I've paid more to watch my team in the past so I'll still go. I'd rather it was cheaper obviously but I love Dumbarton FC and a 2 quid difference isn't enough to stop me supporting them. 

[Black and White Tragic]

I extremely doubt that our board considered how much Dunfermline charge for a match against Dundee United before setting our prices. They thought "what's the max we can get away with to increase our earnings?" and £20/22 was the answer. Bottom line is we're skint and absolutely nobody wants to put money into the club, and despite it's recent success fans can't be arsed showing up either. So, milk the fans that care for all they've got is the only solution.

It's short-termism, probably driven by a we're not going to be here long mentality, so let's milk fans of these better supported clubs while the sun shines. Each season you survive here makes the next even more of a bonus. Why not build your support to a level where championship football is expected and the norm?

The problem is that you are driving down your support to the hard core and this will hit you harder if you eventually drop down a tier.

I'm not coming - I would if it was priced like Falkirk which is £20 with the kids all free. Certainly not paying a premium £20 and additional £24 for 3 kids (assuming that the parent and child ticket is not parent plus all children). £20 versus £44 let them do the maths.

[Hamish's Passenger]

Dumbarton supporters on this forum must dread every home fixture. Rightly or wrongly, it will be the same discussion with everyone about the price of entry.

[Black and White Tragic]

Dumbarton supporters on this forum must dread every home fixture. Rightly or wrongly, it will be the same discussion with everyone about the price of entry.

They should just have their stock answer post ready to cut and paste. I just used mine from those rip off Hibees last season.

[The Moonster]

17 minutes ago, Black and White Tragic said:

It's short-termism, probably driven by a we're not going to be here long mentality, so let's milk fans of these better supported clubs while the sun shines. Each season you survive here makes the next even more of a bonus. Why not build your support to a level where championship football is expected and the norm?

The problem is that you are driving down your support to the hard core and this will hit you harder if you eventually drop down a tier.

I'm not coming - I would if it was priced like Falkirk which is £20 with the kids all free. Certainly not paying a premium £20 and additional £24 for 3 kids (assuming that the parent and child ticket is not parent plus all children). £20 versus £44 let them do the maths.

I don't disagree with much of what you say and certainly can't blame you for not wanting to pay that. Bottom line is we're skint trying to fund a squad at this level and with lower away supports expected this year with losing Hibs and Raith for ICT and Brechin they've felt the need to up the price by 2 quid to cover the drop in numbers.

You ask why we shouldn't build our support, there are short and long answers to that. The short answer is that nobody outside of the people who already go to games or have family who go to games gives two shiny shites about Dumbarton FC. The local population could not care what level of football we're playing and the price is little persuasion for them. We're a diddy team to them and they have no interest in aiding our improvement. The long answer I won't go into great detail but includes the above and also deep rooted issues in how the club conducts itself and how that perception of the club puts people off dealing with them, again regardless of the deal on offer. The trust are doing a lot of hard work to try and improve that side of things but at times are pissing into the wind with what they need to deal with.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

The problem is that you are driving down your support to the hard core and this will hit you harder if you eventually drop down a tier.

The hardcore are also turning their back on the current vile prices in place.

It's not only the walk up prices that have increased, our early bird season ticket price went up by a whopping 40 odd quid.

[Black and White Tragic]

I don't disagree with much of what you say and certainly can't blame you for not wanting to pay that. Bottom line is we're skint trying to fund a squad at this level and with lower away supports expected this year with losing Hibs and Raith for ICT and Brechin they've felt the need to up the price by 2 quid to cover the drop in numbers.
You ask why we shouldn't build our support, there are short and long answers to that. The short answer is that nobody outside of the people who already go to games or have family who go to games gives two shiny shites about Dumbarton FC. The local population could not care what level of football we're playing and the price is little persuasion for them. We're a diddy team to them and they have no interest in aiding our improvement. The long answer I won't go into great detail but includes the above and also deep rooted issues in how the club conducts itself and how that perception of the club puts people off dealing with them, again regardless of the deal on offer. The trust are doing a lot of hard work to try and improve that side of things but at times are pissing into the wind with what they need to deal with.

Sorry I don't have the answers for you other than voting with my feet and hoping your board see that their pricing structure ain't working.

The hardcore are also turning their back on the current vile prices in place.

It's not only the walk up prices that have increased, our early bird season ticket price went up by a whopping 40 odd quid.

So is it a genuine attempt to balance the books whilst keeping the team in the Championship or short sightedness and a failure to see longer term future of your club? Keeping season ticket holders surely is fundamental to ongoing stability, before you even consider trying to build your support.

I feel for you guys, but definitely will be keeping the cash in my hipper.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

So is it a genuine attempt to balance the books whilst keeping the team in the Championship or short sightedness and a failure to see longer term future of your club? Keeping season ticket holders surely is fundamental to ongoing stability, before you even consider trying to build your support.

I feel for you guys, but definitely will be keeping the cash in my hipper.

It's short sighted, greedy and also an attempt to raise as much funds as possible to allow us to compete at this level. Unfortunately we have a new chairman who has breezed in the door and raised every price going thinking that's the answer, he's in for a bit of a shock when he realises it isn't.

All the chat about us needing to do it to compete and the regulars still attending etc completely fall on their arse when the regulars stop stumping up. I personally know about 4 or 5 folk who haven't renewed their season tickets so f**k knows how many we are down compared to last season. Considering we normally announce numbers sold and this season there hasn't been a peep would suggest sales haven't been good. I will most certainly attend home games this season but it wont be anywhere near as many as usual. I'm already in two minds about next week and we're only onto our 2nd home game of the season.

I'd rather affordable football at a shite level than have us absolutely fleece loyal fans to ensure we are involved in a Championship relegation battle. Performances and tactics like yesterday simply solidify that view for me.

[squeezeboxson]

19 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

It's short sighted, greedy and also an attempt to raise as much funds as possible to allow us to compete at this level. Unfortunately we have a new chairman who has breezed in the door and raised every price going thinking that's the answer, he's in for a bit of a shock when he realises it isn't.

All the chat about us needing to do it to compete and the regulars still attending etc completely fall on their arse when the regulars stop stumping up. I personally know about 4 or 5 folk who haven't renewed their season tickets so f**k knows how many we are down compared to last season. Considering we normally announce numbers sold and this season there hasn't been a peep would suggest sales haven't been good. I will most certainly attend home games this season but it wont be anywhere near as many as usual. I'm already in two minds about next week and we're only onto our 2nd home game of the season.

I'd rather affordable football at a shite level than have us absolutely fleece loyal fans to ensure we are involved in a Championship relegation battle. Performances and tactics like yesterday simply solidify that view for me.

 

Pretty sure I heard we were down about 100 season ticket sales as of the Morton game. Not sure how much will have changed in that time.

[101]

hopefully we see the pars that showed up or the first half vs Falkirk if we do we should be fine however if we go expecting a result it could be a long afternoon. Won't be going purely down to cost but hope Dumbarton have another successful season.

[BallochSonsFan]

How does the club increase the number of home fans?

We're probably going to have this discussion in every match thread, but it needs answering.

We're on our longest run in this tier of Scottish football for over 30 years. We took hundreds of fans to Pittodrie for the cup game a few years ago. For a club of our size, the past few years have to be viewed as an unqualified success.

And yet the locals show no interest in coming along to a game.

The danger is that as older fans pass away or committed fans find other demands for their wages then the problem simply gets worse. How do you get locals interested in the club and convert that interest to a bum on a seat? The obvious answer may be "don't charge £20 to get in" but if we slashed our prices the reality is that our crowd would probably increase by a dozen fans. Certainly no more than a low double figure amount.

Our local population couldn't really care less about us. At best they're completely non-plussed. At worst you have the local OF fans who for completely barking mad reasons actually dislike us.

[Turnberry Fields Forever]

I'm heartened that Pars fans are taking a strong stand on this, if only to drive home the fact that watching football at Dumbarton has become way overpriced - I wouldn't criticise anyone for not travelling thro.

 

[TheMessiah]

Well I'm assuming the price hike was to try and squeeze as much out of teams like us, St Mirren and United due to the fact there are not teams like Sevco, Hibs and Hearts like there's been in previous seasons.

In reality, all they have successfully done is price the majority of the travelling fans out of going. It's utter madness and painfully short-sighted, out of touch and flat out greedy.

It's been both well managed on the pitch and well run off it that have kept Dumbarton up so long, decisions like that are what will send you hurtling back to league 1, which would be a shame to see, especially with joke clubs like Livi and Inverness in the divison.

[DumbartonTheSons]

How does the club increase the number of home fans?

We're probably going to have this discussion in every match thread, but it needs answering.

We're on our longest run in this tier of Scottish football for over 30 years. We took hundreds of fans to Pittodrie for the cup game a few years ago. For a club of our size, the past few years have to be viewed as an unqualified success.

And yet the locals show no interest in coming along to a game.

The danger is that as older fans pass away or committed fans find other demands for their wages then the problem simply gets worse. How do you get locals interested in the club and convert that interest to a bum on a seat? The obvious answer may be "don't charge £20 to get in" but if we slashed our prices the reality is that our crowd would probably increase by a dozen fans. Certainly no more than a low double figure amount.

Our local population couldn't really care less about us. At best they're completely non-plussed. At worst you have the local OF fans who for completely barking mad reasons actually dislike us.

There's very little that's been said in this topic and our own one that I disagree on with regards to the issues we're currently experiencing about pricing etc, but before we can bring in new fans, it might be an idea to try and keep current fans and engage with them and make them feel like they're actually valued.

Bringing in new fans is of course how clubs survive decade on decade but at the moment, the club (starting with the new chairman...) could do a lot, lot more as far as I'm concerned to keep and not alienate the fans we currently have.

[Scottylintonstowel]

As I have stated before the price of entry to Dumbartons games is only a smaller reason for the drop in attendances by Dumbarton fans. The main reason is that older established fans are dying and there are no young fans taking their places Look round the ground at at any game and count the under 14s. They almost don't exist. For gods sake let all under 16s in free and try to build a new fan base or our average attendance will be only 200 by 2022

[squeezeboxson]

Right we get that the prices are too much and stuff but we don't need 2 pages of folk moaning that they're not going to the game because of it.

I agree that it is too much. But if it's too much don't come to the game. There's a few on here who have said their bit about the game and stated in a sentence that they won't be going because of the cost. That's fine with me 

Regardless, I doubt "the majority" will decide against it because of £2 more. I also agree with @BallochSonsFan that if we reduced prices we would probably still end up losing money as opposed to making money from more people attending.

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, Black and White Tragic said:

I'm not coming - I would if it was priced like Falkirk which is £20 with the kids all free. Certainly not paying a premium £20 and additional £24 for 3 kids (assuming that the parent and child ticket is not parent plus all children). £20 versus £44 let them do the maths.

And if every potential attendee was a parent with kids you might have a point. Given the majority are probably individual males though your math is irrelevant. 

Rightly or wrongly the Dumbarton board have presumably felt the total income is better with this pricing. They may be right or wrong but the relative pricing of families is going to be a pretty minor factor for consideration.

4 hours ago, Hamish's Passenger said:

Dumbarton supporters on this forum must dread every home fixture. Rightly or wrongly, it will be the same discussion with everyone about the price of entry.

Appears so though not really sure why. Is it too expensive for this level? Almost certainly. But its not like they are worst. Hibs were more expensive. United are at least that too arent they? What are the prices at Inverness too? I recall some summer suggestion they would be over £20. And yet other than some sniping at Hibs there isnt much said about it.

I dont get the these are big clubs so thats fine and Dumbarton arent so that isnt approach. Its all the same level of football.

[Poet of the Macabre]

Dumbarton have been at this level for years, playing sides with large supports like Hibs, Hearts, Rangers etc. How is there such a lack of money?

[TheMessiah]

36 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

And if every potential attendee was a parent with kids you might have a point. Given the majority are probably individual males though your math is irrelevant. 

Rightly or wrongly the Dumbarton board have presumably felt the total income is better with this pricing. They may be right or wrong but the relative pricing of families is going to be a pretty minor factor for consideration.

Appears so though not really sure why. Is it too expensive for this level? Almost certainly. But its not like they are worst. Hibs were more expensive. United are at least that too arent they? What are the prices at Inverness too? I recall some summer suggestion they would be over £20. And yet other than some sniping at Hibs there isnt much said about it.

I dont get the these are big clubs so thats fine and Dumbarton arent so that isnt approach. Its all the same level of football.

Hibs, United, Dunfermline and to an extent St Mirren, Falkirk and Inverness have much better stadiums and facilities.

£20 to watch championship football, in a stadium like Dumbarton's (which I do like, but it is nowhere near the level of other teams) is £5 too expensive at the very least.

If you saw a band at a local bar and saw the same band at a concert hall you wouldn't expect to pay the same amount of money.

[Jimmy85]

I'm not entirely sure what facilities the other grounds mentioned offer that Dumbarton don't. The view is fine and there's catering and toilet facilities. What else do you require? An extra 3 empty stands to look at? 

Yeah, the it's too expensive but so are a number of other grounds in this division but you don't see the same knashing of teeth over Tannadice etc.