The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[lubo_blaha]

I’m not going as far as dunty to say that Pittodrie definitely could not be redeveloped. However it would be an extremely challenging project, if we need to increase run off areas yet want to keep the RDS and Merkland stands as they are then we would effectively have to reduce the footprint of the stadium. Unless we are allowed to close Pittodrie Street. An aerial view of the ground shows that the last house in Pittodrie Street is pretty much aligned with the Main Stand at the moment. Are we just knocking that house down if we build a larger main stand?

I still believe loss of revenue to be the biggest stumbling block. The access to the South Stand is awful and I think we’d be restricted to keeping that pretty much as is with a rebuild due to the proximity of the flats to the current stand. Do we put corporate facilities in a new South Stand while we build a new main stand. Merkland is probably past it’s sell by date as well.

People continually mention hearts and hibs stadiums as the blueprint but having something like that would require knocking down the RDS as well, otherwise we’re always going to have a massively out of kilter stadium and anything build to the specifications of the current main stand will always look ridiculous next to the dick.

As I’ve said all along. I’m not sure Kingsford is the best but it’s certainly better than flushing a shedload of cash away on redeveloping Pittodrie with no income coming from the sale of the ground and retaining the requirement for separate training facilities.

Agree with a lot of this. Pittodrie isn’t ideal, thanks largely to those in charge of our club. The land around Pittodrie should have been purchased years ago when it was available but the board have neglected the current stadium site for decades.

It is entirely unacceptable that the board have neglected the stadium and training situation for twenty five years. The fact that they’ve done this while still running up an astronomical debt and mostly poor team on the park is even worse. They have failed in just about every strategic outcome that you’d expect from a football club board.

I don’t think Kingsford is the answer. The facilities would be welcomed but the location is totally unacceptable which will put people off and seriously hamper us in the long run. If Milne and co hadn’t provided us with such a piss poor current situation then there’d be no way our support would tolerate the plans for Kingsford yet here we are.

[10menwent2mow]

There’s no doubt lubo that the current situation is the doing of the board, yet that’s the position we are in and we can’t unbuild the flats behind the Merkland and south stands.

I certainly would’ve liked to have seen more investigation into the viability of the current AECC site in Bridge of Don. I see it’s earmarked for a huge housing development when it moves. A quick look at the plans I think say that the site is only marginally smaller than Kingsford but I’d argue that you’d need a lot less car parking than is needed for Kingsford due to people using public transport or even walking.

I’m not sure about hampering us in the long run, I think people will very quickly become used to travelling to Kingsford, we have to remember that a lot of people travelling to Pittodrie at the moment have to take two buses. My old dear parks on the Beach and walks across the golf course and to get a decent parking space usually leaves the BoD at 1.45 ish, would probably be ok for Kingsford leaving at that time. I also think you’ll find a lot of bars prepared to run shuttle buses out to the ground.

All in all. It’s not an ideal situation but it is what it is.

[Dunty]

1 hour ago, 10menwent2mow said:

I’m not going as far as dunty to say that Pittodrie definitely could not be redeveloped. 

That's not what I've been saying. I've said it can't be redeveloped to a 20,000 capacity (or close to it) without increasing the footprint.

34 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

I certainly would’ve liked to have seen more investigation into the viability of the current AECC site in Bridge of Don. I see it’s earmarked for a huge housing development when it moves. A quick look at the plans I think say that the site is only marginally smaller

The main stumbling block is the price of the land. It's valued at £18m-£24m. And it's not big enough for a dual facility so in addition to acquiring that we still would need to buy land for the training ground.

[COYR]

7 hours ago, Dunty said:

It's funny how professional architects have looked at it, some independent from the club, and believe a 14,000 rebuilt capacity at Pittodrie seems about right. But you're willing to ignore all that and say we can do stuff that isn't possible and anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot. You're some boy like.

"This isn't up for debate". Really? You're just making random shite up -  "we'll build this stand here, we'll stick it underground if we have to, it'll cost this much". 

I'll leave you to it. I don't think I'm capable of dumbing myself down to your level.

 

I’ll tell the architects and engineers of some of the biggest buildings in the world that Dunty and some shed designer from donstalk have it spot on, the space there isn’t actually there, and you can’t build on a hill, or whatever your point is. 

[HibsFan]

I actually cannot wait to for the picture of Dunty sitting on his own in the new Kingsford Super Stadium watching Clyde score their fourth of the afternoon in front of a crowd of about 6,000. Bring it on.

[Milnzo]

Looks to me like public opinion amongst Dons fans is turning against the Kingsford proposal. The club have handled the whole thing in a very amateur fashion it has to be said.

[Dunning1874]

On 13/01/2018 at 14:22, Dunty said:

Terraces are not "perfectly fine" in the Scottish Premiership. The rules were relaxed about six years ago where clubs were allowed to introduce safe standing, but you have to apply for a licence to your local council. Currently all the top flight stadia are licenced as all seated grounds. Celtic eventually were granted permission by Glasgow City council.

Again, "they do this in XXXX country" is irrelevant, as 2:1 or 3:1 is not something that will be allowed here. The provision is 1:1. Aberdeen are not going to build a 15,000 capacity stadium but add on 5,000 through standing.

Having to apply to the council to change the license does not mean that terraces are not fine in the Scottish Premiership. There are no rules against having terraces in the Scottish Premiership, therefore having terraces is fine in the Scottish Premiership.

Spouting such ill-informed pish doesn't do the credibility of your wider argument any favours.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

2 hours ago, Milnzo said:

Looks to me like public opinion amongst Dons fans is turning against the Kingsford proposal. The club have handled the whole thing in a very amateur fashion it has to be said.

They got off to a terrible start with ridiculous plans from a Mickey Mouse outfit and it’s been a battle ever since. Can’t see a positive outcome for the club.

 

[lubo_blaha]

Looks to me like public opinion amongst Dons fans is turning against the Kingsford proposal. The club have handled the whole thing in a very amateur fashion it has to be said.

It’s just a shame there’s been no public opposition from the Dons support. The No Kingsford group are as much of a joke as the Aurora campaign and this has created an “us and them” situation where people against they stadium are seen as anti-AFC. It’s all well and good spotting off on twitter or forums about how bad this is but no on is doing anything about it. We’re sleepwalking our way to Westhill.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

13 hours ago, Dunty said:

It's funny how professional architects have looked at it, some independent from the club, and believe a 14,000 rebuilt capacity at Pittodrie seems about right. But you're willing to ignore all that and say we can do stuff that isn't possible and anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot. You're some boy like.

"This isn't up for debate". Really? You're just making random shite up -  "we'll build this stand here, we'll stick it underground if we have to, it'll cost this much". 

I'll leave you to it. I don't think I'm capable of dumbing myself down to your level.

Lol. That post on Dons Talk where these supposed professional architects couldn't be bothered to look up the standard pitch size and just made it as big as possible.

[shootingboots]

18 hours ago, Milnzo said:

Looks to me like public opinion amongst Dons fans is turning against the Kingsford proposal. The club have handled the whole thing in a very amateur fashion it has to be said.

I'm becoming fairly ambivalent towards Kingsford. Whilst I don't see it as some sort of disaster for the club like some do, moving so far from the centre of the city isn't preferred. 

I'm not one who sees redeveloping Pittodrie as an option either though, financially I just can't see how it would be possible.  

Lack of available land in Aberdeen has meant we've been landed with Kingsford. 

Other than the redevelop Pittodrie chat, yet to hear of a good location in the city (available). 

[fatshaft]

On 1/12/2018 at 16:53, COYR said:

Are you shouting random stuff in large sentences to make things seem problematic and hoping some of it sticks?

I've already explained how it's possible.

Knocking down the RDS fit are you on about min?

Knock down the south and have a capacity of 13,077 for about 6 games. Rebuild it and have a capacity of at least 16,844. The grass is already there for the pitch. The track and stands in the way is the issue. Nothing would need moved or any footprint expanded. Then knock down and rebuild the main stand, corporate based with a couple of rows for 18,000+.  Training facility is already nearly paid for. Build the stands with share issue/sponsorship/foundation of Hearts like - about £20m apparently of - Kingsford would be. 

Can you do a mock up of this to current building regs like Tom Widdows has done on DT? Be good to see the comparison. Cheers. 

[fatshaft]

On 1/14/2018 at 10:39, Falcor Roar said:

Think Dunty is on the ropes here. 

It's quite astonishing that anyone reads the above couple of pages and thinks that. He's putting over sensible points, and against that a guy pulling figures out of thin air to justify his "points". Christ Hearts just rebuilt ONE stand for £14m, apparently the whole of Pittodrie could be done for £20m, and people are applauding that idiocy? Gimme a break. 

[fatshaft]

On 1/14/2018 at 11:22, lubo_blaha said:

 

I didn’t actually, that was another poster.

If you’re so confident of these views, list the regulations you’re referring to that mean Pittodrie can’t be redeveloped. If you could also show the work of the independent architects that you mentioned then that would be great too (preferably not someone just claiming to be an architect on donstalk).

 

Tom Widdows has a linked In profile for cross checking, he's not "claiming" anything, he is what he says and has mocked up a stadium rebuild and can't get away from the figures that AFC quote as reasonable. 

 

Still, maybe the guy above plucking figures and assertions out of thin air is more credible eh? 

[fatshaft]

20 hours ago, COYR said:

 

I’ll tell the architects and engineers of some of the biggest buildings in the world that Dunty and some shed designer from donstalk have it spot on, the space there isn’t actually there, and you can’t build on a hill, or whatever your point is. 

Congrats, someone with no architectural qualifications sneering at someone who has. Bravo. 

[aDONisSheep]

1 hour ago, shootingboots said:

I'm becoming fairly ambivalent towards Kingsford. Whilst I don't see it as some sort of disaster for the club like some do, moving so far from the centre of the city isn't preferred. 

I'm not one who sees redeveloping Pittodrie as an option either though, financially I just can't see how it would be possible.  

Lack of available land in Aberdeen has meant we've been landed with Kingsford. 

Other than the redevelop Pittodrie chat, yet to hear of a good location in the city (available). 

Yip. 

I just want a better set up than we have.

I've said it before and I'll say it now, I think Pittodrie is shyt and it has been ever since I started going (mid 70s).

We need something better and we've needed proper training facilities since 'afore I wis a loon'. 

As for the distance argument, well I looked on Google maps this morning it turns out that I've been commuting 9 miles from Culter to Pittodrie, and the recommended route is NOT along either the North or South Deeside roads, but is in fact via...                   wait for it...                KINGSFORD!   Even though that is a full 4 miles further in distance.  If I managed 9 miles for 40 odd years, I'm sure I'll manage 6.  (I've been gan the wrang wye fir forty-odd year it seems).

It doesn't say much for our support if moving the stadium a 'puckly' miles means that they 'canna be arsed'.  

As for all this Hibs 'n Hearts stadium shyte.  Easter Road may have a new stand, but it is still a fvkkin hole.  Tynecastle, much though I like it is, still too small (particularly if you've got ambitions of growing that is).

I'll say this again as well.  I go to Pittodrie because that is where 'The Michty, Michty Dons' are playing, not the other way around. 

Yours

aDONis

[lubo_blaha]

Yip. 
I just want a better set up than we have.
I've said it before and I'll say it now, I think Pittodrie is shyt and it has been ever since I started going (mid 70s).
We need something better and we've needed proper training facilities since 'afore I wis a loon'. 
As for the distance argument, well I looked on Google maps this morning it turns out that I've been commuting 9 miles from Culter to Pittodrie, and the recommended route is NOT along either the North or South Deeside roads, but is in fact via...                   wait for it...                KINGSFORD! [emoji4]  Even though that is a full 4 miles further in distance.  If I managed 9 miles for 40 odd years, I'm sure I'll manage 6.  (I've been gan the wrang wye fir forty-odd year it seems). [emoji4]
It doesn't say much for our support if moving the stadium a 'puckly' miles means that they 'canna be arsed'.  
As for all this Hibs 'n Hearts stadium shyte.  Easter Road may have a new stand, but it is still a fvkkin hole.  Tynecastle, much though I like it is, still too small (particularly if you've got ambitions of growing that is).
I'll say this again as well.  I go to Pittodrie because that is where 'The Michty, Michty Dons' are playing, not the other way around. 
Yours
aDONis

No club can simply rely on the loyalty of their support in a situation like this. We need to build something that people want to go to in their leisure time. Our core support will always go no matter where but if we want 15,000 or so consistently then we need it to be an attractive prospect for those outwith the core support. You can say these people aren’t “real fans” but they pay in like everyone else when they do go and that can make a huge difference to our budget. If we make it a pain in the arse to get out to the ground via bus or car, get parked, get food and/or a pint around the other things they may be doing that day, many people won’t bother.

Easter Road and Tynecastle are both brilliant stadiums, streets ahead of what we currently have and what is proposed at Kingsford. If we had either in Aberdeen then you wouldn’t be talking it down.

[lubo_blaha]

Tom Widdows has a linked In profile for cross checking, he's not "claiming" anything, he is what he says and has mocked up a stadium rebuild and can't get away from the figures that AFC quote as reasonable. 
 
Still, maybe the guy above plucking figures and assertions out of thin air is more credible eh? 

I refuse to believe that we can’t get more than 6000 seats in an area that currently holds 15,000.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

56 minutes ago, fatshaft said:

It's quite astonishing that anyone reads the above couple of pages and thinks that. He's putting over sensible points, and against that a guy pulling figures out of thin air to justify his "points". Christ Hearts just rebuilt ONE stand for £14m, apparently the whole of Pittodrie could be done for £20m, and people are applauding that idiocy? Gimme a break. 

For someone who was earlier complaining about non-Dons fans parading their ignorance of Aberdeen it's a bit foolhardy of you to spout off about  Hearts.

 

 

 

[KingswellsRed]

29 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

No club can simply rely on the loyalty of their support in a situation like this. We need to build something that people want to go to in their leisure time. Our core support will always go no matter where but if we want 15,000 or so consistently then we need it to be an attractive prospect for those outwith the core support. You can say these people aren’t “real fans” but they pay in like everyone else when they do go and that can make a huge difference to our budget. If we make it a pain in the arse to get out to the ground via bus or car, get parked, get food and/or a pint around the other things they may be doing that day, many people won’t bother.

Easter Road and Tynecastle are both brilliant stadiums, streets ahead of what we currently have and what is proposed at Kingsford. If we had either in Aberdeen then you wouldn’t be talking it down.

 

Pittodrie certainly isn’t an attractive prospect for those outwith the core support. I think attendances will increase at the new stadium but nobody really knows one way or the other.

The one way to reduce our revenue is to build a stadium like Tynecastle that doesn’t even have any boxes.