The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[EdTheDuck]

1 hour ago, Dunty said:

 

Won't be able to build a stand as high as the Tynecastle main stand where the south stand currently is, so would be a smaller capacity stand for a start. Around 4,000 is what you could get there.

Around 16,000 capacity rebuilt Pittodrie at a maximum is what you're looking at if redeveloping *on the current footprint*.

 

 

Are you contesting that it won't cost too much?

So you either live in a fantasy land where knocking down stands and building new ones is all cheap, or you live in a different fantasy land where Milne should just spend all his money on the stadium, and while he's at it give McInnes £20m so he can get us to the champions league etc etc.

If you can't think of an alternative site, then how can you argue Aberdeen have the wrong one? It's also just ignorance to say "you're wrong but I don't have to explain why" which is basically what you're doing.

If the club could build anywhere they liked, then they wouldn't be building it at Kingsford. They are because they have no other options.

No details given about Dyce though was there? Like how much it cost, how much room there was, etc. The council also offered them Loirston then reneged and took land back off them. 

The land isn't available at Kings Links, and even so from an engineering point of view it would be very difficult to build on that land, due to the high sand content and being much closer to the sea. The pitch would be like a marsh most weeks.

Loirston - I posted the photo a few pages back that shows how much land is now left. Not much.

 

Really? 

Firstly, it's not a couple of hundred pound more to build on these places, it's millions more, which gets turned into a debt, and interest, and takes years to pay off. Aberdeen would struggle to run at a profit. Have you just forgotten what it was like having a huge debt for years? It wasn't that long ago. 

Secondly, you not think we'd need shuttle buses to Dyce and Loirston?

 

 

[EdTheDuck]

1 hour ago, Dunty said:

Sounds great. We should definitely put the club in a mountain of unsustainable debt just so we can keep the stadium that no-one actually seems to like.

I agree completely, dimwit, so let's not build that fucking white elephant at all, eh?

[Jute]

2 hours ago, shootingboots said:

You have to stand up to see the opposite corner of the pitch along the south stand side too. 

It's not a coincidence that Hearts and now Hibs are attracting more fans along to games and grow their fan base - their City Centre grounds are far superior. Some people don't get it though. They want to sit on seats bolted on to old terracing, or stand in a corner of the ground with no roof. Funny how it's always empty when it's raining though. The state of the south stand toilets are an absolute joke as i'm sure any away fan would testify to. The Merkland being the family stand have to utilise the space behind the goals for any pre match activities for kids - not even sure if they do the face paining etc any more, but the club could do so much more with a concourse like in the RDS.  I don't care for any of that stuff, but kids do, folk with kids looking to entertain them for a couple of hours do.

The main stand, well look at it. ood view of the game though if you're not blocked by a pillar.

The RDS is the only stand fit for purpose. 

FTFY as you missed out the important part about where their grounds are.

 

[HibsFan]

3 hours ago, fatshaft said:

Everyone else out my way or in Westhill (that I know, not the WANKS obviously none of whom I know personally) are in favour. So, ye ken. 

And everyone in Springfield wanted to build the Monorail 

[aDONisSheep]

12 hours ago, EdTheDuck said:

No one said it was ever ace, but the ridiculous RDS made it even worse. It's a horrible mix of hard core and families, not one thing or the other.

What atmosphere Pittodrie ever did have was in the old Beach End and then when that was given over to the visiting fans, the King Street End until that was transferred to mams and bairns. Now there's fucking nowhere for what few noise makers we do have to assemble.

Besides, very few Scottish grounds ever have anything other than a shite atmosphere because for the most part they're more than half empty. Even those that aren;t half empty tend towards crap atmospheres.

I blame seats.

Aye well, there's nowt so queer as folk.  My choice is up top of the Big Dick Erection (if I'm with friends) and that's because of the atmosphere.  If I'm taking the kids, then it tends to be the Merkland (the family deals are often too good to turn down).

So I'm not sure I can agree that the Big Dick is the problem with our atmosphere.  During the Fergie years he described Dons fans as 'sweetie paper rustlers' and at that point we were one of the best teams in europe and still didn't create much atmosphere! #livininthe80s.

Atmosphere is primarily people driven, not building driven.  I went to a Jags v HIVs game a couple of years back and the atmosphere was terrific, but surely nobody would suggest that to create a great atmosphere, you need to have a grass bank where a stand should be.

I'll admit it, I'm a funny mixture of new v old fan.  The old fan part of me harks back to the days of terracing, sways and fechtin (conveniently forgetting the racism, bigotry, sexism and homophobia that was also fairly prevalent at the time). 

The new fan in me, says that we (AFC and football) are battling in very different market conditions, with a slant towards new technology and more leisure choices.  In a nutshell we have to get more from our facilities, whether that be more family friendly comfortable surroundings, more corporate revenues, god forbid more away fans and more stadium usage (Rugby, Internationals etc. etc.).

I'll also admit to not being as passionate about everything AFC as others (that's age and geography for you).  I'll turn up to watch Aberdeen play whenever I get the opportunity, it matters very little to me, who the opposition are or where the stadium will be located.  I'm from Culter, so I've been catching busses then walking  to Dons games for 40+ years, it's not that bad!

My routine might change, in that I'll go for a pint in Culter or at the stadium (instead of in town), then maybe back via town (if the wife lets me). 

I'm sure I'm not unique in my outlook, I went to Pittodrie because that is where the stadium is, had it been in Kingsford I'd have gone there without question and I wouldn't have been any the wiser.

Yours in ambivalence 

aDONis

[RiG]

The consultation response from the ACC economics team makes interesting reading. Very much hinting towards the fact that whilst building on that site would be against planning policy and guidance the economic benefits would outweigh this and therefore they have no objection. I suspect this could well be the approach that ACC chose to take i.e. acknowledge that they wouldn't normally let development here go ahead but the perceived financial benefits justify it.

[EdTheDuck]

1 hour ago, aDONisSheep said:

Aye well, there's nowt so queer as folk.  My choice is up top of the Big Dick Erection (if I'm with friends) and that's because of the atmosphere.  If I'm taking the kids, then it tends to be the Merkland (the family deals are often too good to turn down).

So I'm not sure I can agree that the Big Dick is the problem with our atmosphere.  During the Fergie years he described Dons fans as 'sweetie paper rustlers' and at that point we were one of the best teams in europe and still didn't create much atmosphere! #livininthe80s.

Atmosphere is primarily people driven, not building driven.  I went to a Jags v HIVs game a couple of years back and the atmosphere was terrific, but surely nobody would suggest that to create a great atmosphere, you need to have a grass bank where a stand should be.

I'll admit it, I'm a funny mixture of new v old fan.  The old fan part of me harks back to the days of terracing, sways and fechtin (conveniently forgetting the racism, bigotry, sexism and homophobia that was also fairly prevalent at the time). 

The new fan in me, says that we (AFC and football) are battling in very different market conditions, with a slant towards new technology and more leisure choices.  In a nutshell we have to get more from our facilities, whether that be more family friendly comfortable surroundings, more corporate revenues, god forbid more away fans and more stadium usage (Rugby, Internationals etc. etc.).

I'll also admit to not being as passionate about everything AFC as others (that's age and geography for you).  I'll turn up to watch Aberdeen play whenever I get the opportunity, it matters very little to me, who the opposition are or where the stadium will be located.  I'm from Culter, so I've been catching busses then walking  to Dons games for 40+ years, it's not that bad!

My routine might change, in that I'll go for a pint in Culter or at the stadium (instead of in town), then maybe back via town (if the wife lets me). 

I'm sure I'm not unique in my outlook, I went to Pittodrie because that is where the stadium is, had it been in Kingsford I'd have gone there without question and I wouldn't have been any the wiser.

Yours in ambivalence 

aDONis

Yeah, I believe Thistle-Hibs games always have terrific atmospheres, famous for it.

I had a ST in the RDS for a season and it was just awful. Gave it up after a year. Never been in the upper except to look around but it looks pretty sparsely populated most of the time.

I’d suggest the nature of the game creates the atmosphere. I’ve been in a crowd of 500 at Harlaw Park and it was electric and a full house at Old Trafford and it was like a morgue.

At the risk of labouring the point, my ire is because there is no need to be moving to Kingsford or anywhere else and to suggest if we had always been at Kingsford we wouldn’t be any the wiser is just fucking surreal.

If Dick Donald & particularly Chris Anderson had been around in the 1990s & 2000s Pittodrie would have been redeveloped. No question about it.

They weren’t though and so no redevelopment was done other than the eyesore at the Beach End. For 25 years. Nothing.

And, of course, the sale of Pittodrie became more and more desirable the more and more debt was run up. Not just desirable, it became a necessity.

That the debt was cleared, not by fiscal propriety, but because of outside investment by Aberdeen fans has to go down as one of the flukes of the century. Suddenly the sale of Pittodrie would contribute more to the building of a new stadium and by some dint of trick memory that was always the plan.

Because by now, of course, Pittodrie had assumed the status of an actual midden thanks to neglect. Rebuilding there would cost so much more and the capacity would be similar to Cliftonhill, besides which planning permission for a bazillion flats was already approved so…y’know.

I have no faith in the AFC board and I hold them entirely responsible for this quagmire (giggity). Hearts built 3 new stands almost 20 years ago. Hibs weren’t far behind. They are our contemporaries, what the f**k were we doing meanwhile? Spending a million quid on Paul fucking Bernard to finish 7^th.

Why so many are agreeing with the board so enthusiastically and nodding meekly to their f**k-uppery is utterly bewildering.

[Dunty]

6 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

The Loirston plans included shuttle buses but not near the same number as Kingsford. Dyce would’ve been much better with current and planned rail links as well.

 

Loirston didn't include enough shuttle buses. It would have had to have increased them, the same way they had (and will still have to) increase them at Kingsford. Funny how in hindsight so many who were dead against Loirston now are saying we should have built there (not saying you personally). And we would have built there had the council not promised us land then taken it from us.

I was a big fan of Loirston and wished the council hadn't fucked us over. I'd love someone to come along and say "Listen, what is it, £7m extra to build at Loirston? Here's £10m, keep the change, use it to get yourself something nice like a train station".  But when I hear the club admitting they face a huge challenge raising £50m, I don't think adding £7m to the price tag is realistic.

6 hours ago, shootingboots said:

You have to stand up to see the opposite corner of the pitch along the south stand side too. 

It's not a coincidence that Hearts and now Hibs are attracting more fans along to games and grow their fan base - their grounds are far superior. Some people don't get it though. They want to sit on seats bolted on to old terracing, or stand in a corner of the ground with no roof. Funny how it's always empty when it's raining though. The state of the south stand toilets are an absolute joke as i'm sure any away fan would testify to. The Merkland being the family stand have to utilise the space behind the goals for any pre match activities for kids - not even sure if they do the face paining etc any more, but the club could do so much more with a concourse like in the RDS.  I don't care for any of that stuff, but kids do, folk with kids looking to entertain them for a couple of hours do.

The main stand, well look at it. ood view of the game though if you're not blocked by a pillar.

The RDS is the only stand fit for purpose.

And even then you can't see the goal line from most of the upper deck.

[Dunty]

17 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

Yeah, I believe Thistle-Hibs games always have terrific atmospheres, famous for it.

 

I had a ST in the RDS for a season and it was just awful. Gave it up after a year. Never been in the upper except to look around but it looks pretty sparsely populated most of the time.

 

I’d suggest the nature of the game creates the atmosphere. I’ve been in a crowd of 500 at Harlaw Park and it was electric and a full house at Old Trafford and it was like a morgue.

 

At the risk of labouring the point, my ire is because there is no need to be moving to Kingsford or anywhere else and to suggest if we had always been at Kingsford we wouldn’t be any the wiser is just fucking surreal.

 

If Dick Donald & particularly Chris Anderson had been around in the 1990s & 2000s Pittodrie would have been redeveloped. No question about it.

 

They weren’t though and so no redevelopment was done other than the eyesore at the Beach End. For 25 years. Nothing.

 

And, of course, the sale of Pittodrie became more and more desirable the more and more debt was run up. Not just desirable, it became a necessity.

 

That the debt was cleared, not by fiscal propriety, but because of outside investment by Aberdeen fans has to go down as one of the flukes of the century. Suddenly the sale of Pittodrie would contribute more to the building of a new stadium and by some dint of trick memory that was always the plan.

 

Because by now, of course, Pittodrie had assumed the status of an actual midden thanks to neglect. Rebuilding there would cost so much more and the capacity would be similar to Cliftonhill, besides which planning permission for a bazillion flats was already approved so…y’know.

 

I have no faith in the AFC board and I hold them entirely responsible for this quagmire (giggity). Hearts built 3 new stands almost 20 years ago. Hibs weren’t far behind. They are our contemporaries, what the f**k were we doing meanwhile? Spending a million quid on Paul fucking Bernard to finish 7^th.

 

Why so many are agreeing with the board so enthusiastically and nodding meekly to their f**k-uppery is utterly bewildering.

 

Because we can't go back 25 years ago and right the wrongs. Milne apart, it's a different board now, so can't hold Yule or Cormack responsible. Even Milne wasn't the chairman then, it was Ian Donald.

Where we are is where we are. Pittodrie is not fit for purpose. We can't afford (and are likely unable to) rebuild a 20,000 stadium there. Some like yourself seem happy to build a 16,000 ground at a huge cost, or just keep paying 700k a year to stay in the same spot, but thankfully you're in the minority.

Kings Links would be idea from a location point of view, but the actual site isn't. There's no-where else in the city centre.

AECC: Minimum £18m to buy the land and still need to build training ground elsewhere.

Dyce: No room or details on price.

Loirston: Club tried. Council fucked them. Fans who said they wouldn't go if they built there now complaining that we moved elsewhere. 

Kinhsford: Of course it's not ideal. But it's affordable, it's workable, and therefore more deliverable than  any other site. And if Kingsford gets rejected we won't be building at Pittodrie, Kings Links, or anywhere else in the city. The club will pick an Aberdeenshire site that is affordable. Balmedie, Blackburn or Portlethen are the ones suggested.

Blackburn essentially the same as Kingsford. Portlethen at least has a train station. Balmedie - well the game is a bogey if we end up there.

That isn't meekly agreeing with the board. It's just that having a tantrum and stomping our feet isn't going to solve anything. 

[EdTheDuck]

Just now, Dunty said:

Because we can't go back 25 years ago and right the wrongs. Milne apart, it's a different board now, so can't hold Yule or Cormack responsible. Even Milne wasn't the chairman then, it was Ian Donald.

Where we are is where we are. Pittodrie is not fit for purpose. We can't afford (and are likely unable to) rebuild a 20,000 stadium there. Some like yourself seem happy to build a 16,000 ground at a huge cost, or just keep paying 700k a year to stay in the same spot, but thankfully you're in the minority.

Kings Links would be idea from a location point of view, but the actual site isn't. There's no-where else in the city centre.

AECC: Minimum £18m to buy the land and still need to build training ground elsewhere.

Dyce: No room or details on price.

Loirston: Club tried. Council fucked them. Fans who said they wouldn't go if they built there now complaining that we moved elsewhere. 

Kinhsford: Of course it's not ideal. But it's affordable, it's workable, and therefore more deliverable than  any other site. And if Kingsford gets rejected we won't be building at Pittodrie, Kings Links, or anywhere else in the city. The club will pick an Aberdeenshire site that is affordable. Balmedie, Blackburn or Portlethen are the ones suggested.

Blackburn essentially the same as Kingsford. Portlethen at least has a train station. Balmedie - well the game is a bogey if we end up there.

That isn't meekly agreeing with the board. It's just that having a tantrum and stomping our feet isn't going to solve anything. 

Jog on, you supercilious dimwit.

You seem to have a problem with comprehension. I couldn't give a good God Damn where the new stadium is built or how much it costs or whether there's a fucking train or the 100 helicopters blasting Ride of the Valkyries. An out of town stadium will not be as good as a city centre stadium. The End.

Milne and his board fucked up. Over and over and over again and painted themselves into a corner as far as Pittodrie is concerned. If Kingsford is knocked back and rebuilding Pittodrie and a separate training complex costs a relative fortune then I have absolutely no problem saying that whatever the difference in debt for Kingsford is compared to a rebuilt Pittodrie should be paid for by the people whose fault this whole sorry mess is.

[Dunty]

3 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

Jog on, you supercilious dimwit.

You seem to have a problem with comprehension. I couldn't give a good God Damn where the new stadium is built or how much it costs or whether there's a fucking train or the 100 helicopters blasting Ride of the Valkyries. An out of town stadium will not be as good as a city centre stadium. The End.

Milne and his board fucked up. Over and over and over again and painted themselves into a corner as far as Pittodrie is concerned. If Kingsford is knocked back and rebuilding Pittodrie and a separate training complex costs a relative fortune then I have absolutely no problem saying that whatever the difference in debt for Kingsford is compared to a rebuilt Pittodrie should be paid for by the people whose fault this whole sorry mess is.

Laughable. What a dribbling mess you are.

[HibsFan]

32 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

Milne and his board fucked up. Over and over and over again and painted themselves into a corner as far as Pittodrie is concerned.

They didn't just f**k up in my opinion, they cynically and deliberately manipulated this situation for their own gain. Pathetic how many Aberdeen fans are going along with it, lambs to the slaughter comes to mind. As a supporter of a rival club who might be contending with you for Europe in the near future, I should be pleased that Aberdeen are about to shoot themselves in the foot so spectacularly and almost guarantee themselves as the next Livingston of Scottish football, but I'm not, because I feel sorry for the 25% or so of Dons who are sensible enough to see this Kingsford move for the scam it is.

[EdTheDuck]

48 minutes ago, Dunty said:

Laughable. What a dribbling mess you are.

[lubo_blaha]

Loirston was (and is) significantly better than Kingsford in just about every way, even without the space for training facilities on site. It’s amazing what a strong team on the pitch and a good marketing campaign can do. The Nimby’s have been good for the club too.

[Dunty]

15 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

Loirston was (and is) significantly better than Kingsford in just about every way, even without the space for training facilities on site. It’s amazing what a strong team on the pitch and a good marketing campaign can do. The Nimby’s have been good for the club too.

I agree Loirston would be better. Where do you propose we get the extra £7m though? Would you accept adding £7m to the debt?

[EdTheDuck]

19 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

They didn't just f**k up in my opinion, they cynically and deliberately manipulated this situation for their own gain. Pathetic how many Aberdeen fans are going along with it, lambs to the slaughter comes to mind. As a supporter of a rival club who might be contending with you for Europe in the near future, I should be pleased that Aberdeen are about to shoot themselves in the foot so spectacularly and almost guarantee themselves as the next Livingston of Scottish football, but I'm not, because I feel sorry for the 25% or so of Dons who are sensible enough to see this Kingsford move for the scam it is.

I really hope not. I actually hope it was just bad decision making.

However, Kingsford does give me the fear. I've said before that in the lean years to come (and there will be lean years) I think the 9,500 average we had under Brooner will seem like the Golden Age by comparison. What's our hard hard-core? The guys who will trundle along to the game regardless of how shit we are, even in the back of beyond? I dread to think.

 

[COYR]

9 hours ago, Dunty said:

 

Won't be able to build a stand as high as the Tynecastle main stand where the south stand currently is, so would be a smaller capacity stand for a start. Around 4,000 is what you could get there.

Brain fart or no idea what you're talking about? The only thing that matters is how much space there is. Don't build it as high as Tynecastle, build it the same height as the south now if you want.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

8 hours ago, fatshaft said:

 

You're telling me that you couldn't walk from Skene to Kingsford? You're telling me I can't walk to Kingsford, from Garlogie, 3 miles? 

 

Wouldn’t advise it in the dark., it’s not the distance that would be the problem, it’s being flattened by some idiot. And I’m a few miles away from Skene. 

[Aberdeen Cowden]

1 hour ago, HibsFan said:

They didn't just f**k up in my opinion, they cynically and deliberately manipulated this situation for their own gain. Pathetic how many Aberdeen fans are going along with it, lambs to the slaughter comes to mind. As a supporter of a rival club who might be contending with you for Europe in the near future, I should be pleased that Aberdeen are about to shoot themselves in the foot so spectacularly and almost guarantee themselves as the next Livingston of Scottish football, but I'm not, because I feel sorry for the 25% or so of Dons who are sensible enough to see this Kingsford move for the scam it is.

More and more are becoming aware of it. Doesn’t matter though, the chairman won’t back off. Too much £ at stake.

[lubo_blaha]

I agree Loirston would be better. Where do you propose we get the extra £7m though? Would you accept adding £7m to the debt?

Yes. £7m is nothing compared to what we’ll lose over a 30+ year period because of our location at Kingsford.