Official Get The Challenge Cup In The Bin Thread

[Glenconner]

4 hours ago, Sloop John B said:

For a Cup game it's probably around 200 less than if it was on a Saturday, plus a slightly smaller away support because of the state Airdrie are in. The home support is by in large consistent regardless but we are yet to face a colt team to put that theory into practice. 

 

Absolute minter for Celtic Colts to be sworded by last year's Queens Under 20s

Have to say, even for having a man sent off early doors, Celtic were well beaten. Tidy set up at Annan btw.

[lionel hutz]

5 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

So, papped out already we have:

St Johnstone U20s (lost to, erm, Aberdeen U20s)
Celtic U20s (lost to Annan Athletic)
Hibernian U20s (lost to Elgin City)
Kilmarnock U20s (lost to Berwick Rangers)
 

U20s who won are:
Ross County ft Northern Ireland international Billy McKay
Aberdeen U20s...who, erm, beat another U20s team
Hamilton Academical U20s who were stunning 1-0 victors at home against Edinburgh City courtesy of a penalty
Partick Thistle U20s who beat a bunch of guys from Uni

Anyone care to fire up the crowds? Great to hear the Yinited fans ran a mile.

Who are still on their summer holidays until next month

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

It fell before the "Three Day Week" which ran from Jan to Mar 1974, so I wondered if it was just coincidence: but infact due to the OPEC crisis which preceded it I see the government banned floodlights the week before. It'd been abandoned due to fog on Sat 3rd Nov, and so had to be rearranged at 2:15pm on Wednesday 21st. Unsurprisingly this and travel problems would badly hurt the crowd. Three League Cup QF 2nd legs also got low crowds (Aberdeen-Celtic 2,821 15,500; Clyde-Dundee 4,609; Hibs-Rangers 5,287 19,425) while Albion Rovers and Killie swapped-out an adjacent league game and got 295!

EDIT: Actually to illustrate the difference 3 days later at Rugby Park a crowd of 5,287 watched the League Cup QF - 18 times the crowd 3 days before !


Last night therefore seems to be Utd's lowest crowd since the defeat of fascism without extenuating circumstances... despite being the holders.

^^^^ Hasn't been paying attention to U.S. politics.

[cmontheloknow]

12 hours ago, Rovers_Lad said:

Agree,

 

They shouldn,t be in the Scottish Cup

Agree all you want, but there is no reason (other than narrow-mindedness) that they shouldn't - the Scottish Cup is for SFA members - all clubs playing in Scotland are registered members of the SFA. In the past it has been restructed to clubs in Full Membership, but now is open to all.

Therefore all clubs in Scotland (bar those in the Welfare FA and those playing summer football) have the right now to enter the Scottish Cup via qualifying methods - by winning the 3 regional Junior top divisions, the Junior Cup, the Scottish Amateur Cup, the East of Scotland and South of Scotland leagues and the South/East Cup Winners Shield.

[Rovers_Lad]

I,m well aware of the rulrs and reasons why they compete in the SC but doesn,t mean to say I agree with it.Juniors have their own SC and should stick to that instead of taking money out of the professional game when most junior clubs have no or very little interest in wanting to turn pro

[The Moonster]

14 hours ago, big al said:

A balanced post.

I'm afraid it can't be a balanced post because it clearly states utter bullshit such as "this is good for youth development". Evidence of that please.

13 hours ago, StewartyMac said:

There was some merit in the idea

 

What merit was in the idea? 

[Buddie Holly]

did the premier league u20 sides play their home games at their own stadia last night?

[John MacLean]

4 minutes ago, Buddie Holly said:

did the premier league u20 sides play their home games at their own stadia last night?

Thistle did. At a guess I would say that the crowd, given over the PA as 190, would be on a par with what the Development side would normally get. There was 400+ at the tie with Queen's Park last season. 

I quite enjoyed the game last night. It was a nice night and there is some decent talent in the Thistle side. No idea if the Stirling Uni side was anywhere near what they field in the Lowland League. 

[StewartyMac]

16 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

What merit was in the idea? 

The merit was involving all 42 member clubs, given that we're all under the same umbrella now, whilst keeping it primarily focused on the lower league clubs. There was also merit in giving these kids a chance to play against full senior sides in a senior cup competition. Agree or disagree with either point, it's merely my opinion. 

However, it's been handled badly with scheduling - these sides shouldn't be drawn against each other where possible, and should be forced to play away when drawn against a league sides given the farcical situation of either playing miles away from their home ground (Motherwell, Celtic, etc) or playing in little more than a public park. Also, the new inclusion of overage players in the squads just makes a complete mockery of the whole thing. 

In conclusion, it's not worked, and they've made it worse, not better. It's a shame, as I really like the inclusion of the Welsh and Irish clubs. I'd actually be disappointed if the competition folded. 

[HibeeJibee]

14 minutes ago, Buddie Holly said:

did the premier league u20 sides play their home games at their own stadia last night?

Majority of them did. Aberdeen played theirs at Brechin, Hibs at Spartans and tonight Motherwell will play at Stirling Albion.

Last year Aberdeen played at Pitmedden, Celtic at Morton, Rangers at Stirling Albion (oddly enough against Stirling University), and Motherwell's was supposed to go ahead at a couple of other places IIRC but ultimately ended-up at Fir Park.

[The Moonster]

11 minutes ago, StewartyMac said:

The merit was involving all 42 member clubs, given that we're all under the same umbrella now, whilst keeping it primarily focused on the lower league clubs. There was also merit in giving these kids a chance to play against full senior sides in a senior cup competition. Agree or disagree with either point, it's merely my opinion. 

However, it's been handled badly with scheduling - these sides shouldn't be drawn against each other where possible, and should be forced to play away when drawn against a league sides given the farcical situation of either playing miles away from their home ground (Motherwell, Celtic, etc) or playing in little more than a public park. Also, the new inclusion of overage players in the squads just makes a complete mockery of the whole thing. 

In conclusion, it's not worked, and they've made it worse, not better. It's a shame, as I really like the inclusion of the Welsh and Irish clubs. I'd actually be disappointed if the competition folded. 

I get that it's your opinion, it's why we're all here. I don't agree that letting kids play 1 or 2 games a season in this cup helps their development. I would argue that loaning players to clubs who then play over the course of a season has far more beneficial qualities than this sham. Including all 42 clubs? Why? The top clubs don't want to be involved, hence they're sending their youth team to collect prize money from a competition that they previously never had access to. It fucking stinks. It's a farce, it was implemented with the view to putting Colts in the league, nothing else. Overage players aren't the mockery, colt teams are.

[NorthBank]

Didn't make the game last night as I had another commitment. We took 2000 to an Away game on Saturday but had about 1200 Home support last night in what will be one of our lowest crowds of the season. Fans are hardly flocking to the new set-up. What were the other crowds like? And I did not see any match results on-line this morning from two national dailies so the media don't give a toss either. If we are drawn against an U20 team in the next round I and the guys I usually go to games with, won't be attending. Get the U20s tae f**k out of what was once a decent competition.

[StewartyMac]

14 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

 it was implemented with the view to putting Colts in the league, nothing else.

If they wanted to, they could put colt teams in the league set up without all this. It's happened in many other countries without the need of a trial run cup competition. 

I don't see it happening to be honest, I would certainly hope not anyway. 

[HibeeJibee]

It's clearly been done to try and "legitimise" or "normalise" the idea, to help the cause of getting (at least) OF "B" teams into SPFL, even if that isn't literally their only motivation.

Before the autumn was out Doncaster was hailing it a "great success" - which it clearly hadn't been given half the "B" teams exited in R1, only 1 made it to R3 (where they got thrashed), and the crowds were dire - and calling for clubs to be "opened minded" to having "B" teams in the league due to this. Before the season was out an official blueprint had been drawnup by SPFL and circulated to clubs to admit "B" teams into SPFL which more than once cites the experience of the Challenge Cup as a positive and justification.


It'd be simplistic to suggest it's about this and nothing else - equally it's naive to think it's not about this at all.

Clearly trying to put them in SPFL would not be dependant on having them in the Challenge Cup... but clearly having them in the Challenge Cup is envisaged to assist with trying to put them in SPFL.


To clinch it: having largely bombed in the cup last season, and it allegedly all being about youth development, suddenly a change of heart this season. Wholesale remodel of seeding and format, 2 overage players added... lo 'n behold 5 "B" teams make it into the Last 32 - with 3 more playing tonight - versus 1 last season.

[The Moonster]

19 minutes ago, StewartyMac said:

If they wanted to, they could put colt teams in the league set up without all this. It's happened in many other countries without the need of a trial run cup competition. 

I don't see it happening to be honest, I would certainly hope not anyway. 

 

5 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

It's clearly been done to try and "legitimise" or "normalise" the idea, to help the cause of getting (at least) OF "B" teams into SPFL, even if that isn't literally their only motivation.

Before the autumn was out Doncaster was hailing it a "great success" - which it clearly hadn't been given half the "B" teams exited in R1, only 1 made it to R3 (where they got thrashed), and the crowds were dire - and calling for clubs to be "opened minded" to having "B" teams in the league due to this. Before the season was out an official blueprint had been drawnup by SPFL and circulated to clubs to admit "B" teams into SPFL which more than once cites the experience of the Challenge Cup as a positive and justification.

Clearly trying to put them in SPFL would not be dependant on having them in the Challenge Cup... but clearly having them in the Challenge Cup is intended to assist with trying to put them in SPFL.


To clinch it: having largely bombed in the cup last season, and it allegedly all being about youth development, suddenly a change of heart this season. Wholesale changes to seeding and format, 2 overage players added... lo 'n behold 5 "B" teams make it into the Last 32 - with 3 more playing tonight - versus 1 last season.

Couldn't have put it any better than HJ. f**k knows how you don't see it happening, it's literally all c***s like Malky MacKay and Doncaster talk about.

[StewartyMac]

16 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

 

Couldn't have put it any better than HJ. f**k knows how you don't see it happening, it's literally all c***s like Malky MacKay and Doncaster talk about.

I don't see the majority of member clubs voting for it, that's why. Although, it's Scottish football, so anything's possible. 

[NewBlue]

BBC can't even be bothered reporting on it correctly, according to them we lost 2-0 last night and Hearts beat some team called Formatin United and Hibs drew with Elgin. Does anyone actually care about this apart from the SPFL?

[Glenconner]

2 hours ago, Rovers_Lad said:

I,m well aware of the rulrs and reasons why they compete in the SC but doesn,t mean to say I agree with it.Juniors have their own SC and should stick to that instead of taking money out of the professional game when most junior clubs have no or very little interest in wanting to turn pro

How do you define pro?

Paying wages?

Buying and selling players.

Playing in an enclosed ground?

Taking money at the gate?

[Accies88]

Good win for our kids last night. All under 20's. I don't back the arse cheeks colt teams being in the bottom tier but the Sfa are trying to improve our young players. But at the same time I think they are diminishing the Challenge cup with colt teams taking part. If they want to help the progress of the youth they could bring back reserve team football and send some out on loan. Also the top division should be 16 teams. Say the top 16 clubs put there two best players youth players into a pool of of 32 then into 2 teams of 16. Creating two teams of the best talent in the country who say train together once a week or whatever. We could call them ScotA and ScotB or North and South?. Would the lower leagues fans be happy with these teams in the league? 

[HibeeJibee]

Tbf, most of us dream of little else than having the opportunity to play the Scotland Domestic U-20s Draft Select XI (South) on a backpitch at the Oriam.