Sons v Ton

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Every fan of The Famous should insist on concession entry against those money-grabbing, snake owners. Or just watch the game from that failed attempt at a castle instead.

Sad!

I wouldn't blame you, infact I'd encourage it as a massive get it up you to our fleecing b*****d of a chairman.

[vikingTON]

We're caught between a rock and a hard place.
In an ideal world prices would be capped. Personally I think £15 would be the maximum amount that should be charged in our league, with £18 in the top flight, £13 in league 1 and a tenner in league 2.
If we were to drop our prices across the board then would we see an increased capacity at Dumbarton home games? Almost certainly not in sufficient numbers to make up for the lost income. If it was a straight up choice of 700 fans paying £20 or 1000 paying £14 then its clear that we'd go for the numbers every time. Numbers generate atmosphere. Numbers generate interest. Numbers give us a fanbase we can do things with.
In reality we'd draw no more than 800 home fans and end up losing nearly £3,000 a game.
Dumbarton, the Vale of Leven, Helensburgh and the surrounding areas really don't care about our club. Thats the big problem we need to address. Unfortunately recognising it is only a small step. How do you actually go about getting fans along to their local club? How do you stop the cars and busses that go to Glasgow every other Saturday to go to the Your Radio Stadium? The utterly ludicrous sight of a banner with the words "Dumbarton Loyal" in the AWAY end of our ground. The complete fucknuttery of locals wishing our club went bankrupt because we dared to sign Ian Durant as assistant manager and he happened to play for the half of the old firm that they don't support.
Price is a small part of a massive problem and the fans who do go end up paying dearly for it.

None of those points actually explain why charging a full score for admission is an acceptable standard pricing policy for Dumbarton though. That is the result of a recent price hike above that of the majority of the division, so an argument about whether reducing the price would attract more customers isn't valid here.

Rightly or not if it were £18 for adults then the majority of supporters wouldn't care much at all.

[BallochSonsFan]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

 

None of those points actually explain why charging a full score for admission is an acceptable standard pricing policy for Dumbarton though. That is the result of a recent price hike above that of the majority of the division, so an argument about whether reducing the price would attract more customers isn't valid here.

Rightly or not if it were £18 for adults then the majority of supporters wouldn't care much at all.

 

Necessity.

Thats the only reason that explains any price charged by any team.

We don't have the luxury of charging what fans want. We charge what the business needs.

[Jan Vojáček]

My major worry with the pricing is that it will deter potential fans of the future from coming along, thus securing things for the short term, but leaving our already small fanbase even smaller in 20/30 years time. I can't blame any Morton fan for not bothering with this, and would be utterly seething if I was a fan of a 'Cat. A' £22 an adult team.

We'll have another defender signed up for this, which is fine, but it's really an addition in attack we're needing. If Morton deal with The Prince, or if he gets injured early on, then we won't be scoring.

[Howlin' Wilf]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

We're caught between a rock and a hard place.

In an ideal world prices would be capped. Personally I think £15 would be the maximum amount that should be charged in our league, with £18 in the top flight, £13 in league 1 and a tenner in league 2.

If we were to drop our prices across the board then would we see an increased capacity at Dumbarton home games? Almost certainly not in sufficient numbers to make up for the lost income. If it was a straight up choice of 700 fans paying £20 or 1000 paying £14 then its clear that we'd go for the numbers every time. Numbers generate atmosphere. Numbers generate interest. Numbers give us a fanbase we can do things with.

In reality we'd draw no more than 800 home fans and end up losing nearly £3,000 a game.

Dumbarton, the Vale of Leven, Helensburgh and the surrounding areas really don't care about our club. Thats the big problem we need to address. Unfortunately recognising it is only a small step. How do you actually go about getting fans along to their local club? How do you stop the cars and busses that go to Glasgow every other Saturday to go to the Your Radio Stadium? The utterly ludicrous sight of a banner with the words "Dumbarton Loyal" in the AWAY end of our ground. The complete fucknuttery of locals wishing our club went bankrupt because we dared to sign Ian Durant as assistant manager and he happened to play for the half of the old firm that they don't support.

Price is a small part of a massive problem and the fans who do go end up paying dearly for it.

This is by far the most sensible and insightful post I've read here in a while.

[Howlin' Wilf]

44 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

None of those points actually explain why charging a full score for admission is an acceptable standard pricing policy for Dumbarton though. That is the result of a recent price hike above that of the majority of the division, so an argument about whether reducing the price would attract more customers isn't valid here.

Rightly or not if it were £18 for adults then the majority of supporters wouldn't care much at all.

It sorts out the hassle of making it all ticket though.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

We're caught between a rock and a hard place.
In an ideal world prices would be capped. Personally I think £15 would be the maximum amount that should be charged in our league, with £18 in the top flight, £13 in league 1 and a tenner in league 2.
If we were to drop our prices across the board then would we see an increased capacity at Dumbarton home games? Almost certainly not in sufficient numbers to make up for the lost income. If it was a straight up choice of 700 fans paying £20 or 1000 paying £14 then its clear that we'd go for the numbers every time. Numbers generate atmosphere. Numbers generate interest. Numbers give us a fanbase we can do things with.
In reality we'd draw no more than 800 home fans and end up losing nearly £3,000 a game.
Dumbarton, the Vale of Leven, Helensburgh and the surrounding areas really don't care about our club. Thats the big problem we need to address. Unfortunately recognising it is only a small step. How do you actually go about getting fans along to their local club? How do you stop the cars and busses that go to Glasgow every other Saturday to go to the Your Radio Stadium? The utterly ludicrous sight of a banner with the words "Dumbarton Loyal" in the AWAY end of our ground. The complete fucknuttery of locals wishing our club went bankrupt because we dared to sign Ian Durant as assistant manager and he happened to play for the half of the old firm that they don't support.
Price is a small part of a massive problem and the fans who do go end up paying dearly for it.

We have now entered the territory of loyal fans not bothering to turn up because of prices. Myself included.

Sure I'll attend more than a few games this season but it will be absolutely nowhere near every game. Nor will it be enough games to remotely cover the cost of a season ticket. I've already started penning in plans for Saturday's we're playing at home this season, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one. I also know of numerous fairweather fans who are scoffing at this year's prices and their 4 or 5 games a season will probably now be 1 or 2 tops.

It's not about dropping prices, it's about not increasing them to the point they are utterly unjustifiable. We managed fine on last year's prices so why the sudden need to start charging folk the likes of 15 quid for a shitey League Cup game, increase the early bird season ticket price by 50 quid as well as adding 2 quid onto last year's walk up prices? It's also fairly well publicised that the playing budget is being reduced. Where's the incentive?

Fair play to anyone who's willing to pay it regularly. I'm certainly not.

[Scottylintonstowel]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

We're caught between a rock and a hard place.

In an ideal world prices would be capped. Personally I think £15 would be the maximum amount that should be charged in our league, with £18 in the top flight, £13 in league 1 and a tenner in league 2.

If we were to drop our prices across the board then would we see an increased capacity at Dumbarton home games? Almost certainly not in sufficient numbers to make up for the lost income. If it was a straight up choice of 700 fans paying £20 or 1000 paying £14 then its clear that we'd go for the numbers every time. Numbers generate atmosphere. Numbers generate interest. Numbers give us a fanbase we can do things with.

In reality we'd draw no more than 800 home fans and end up losing nearly £3,000 a game.

Dumbarton, the Vale of Leven, Helensburgh and the surrounding areas really don't care about our club. Thats the big problem we need to address. Unfortunately recognising it is only a small step. How do you actually go about getting fans along to their local club? How do you stop the cars and busses that go to Glasgow every other Saturday to go to the Your Radio Stadium? The utterly ludicrous sight of a banner with the words "Dumbarton Loyal" in the AWAY end of our ground. The complete fucknuttery of locals wishing our club went bankrupt because we dared to sign Ian Durant as assistant manager and he happened to play for the half of the old firm that they don't support.

Price is a small part of a massive problem and the fans who do go end up paying dearly for it.

Sadly the true Dumbarton fans are dying off whilst newcomers to the town have no interest in the club. Those who live locally who support the old firm will never transfer to their local club. Numbers will continue to decrease no matter how successful Dumbarton are. We have seen Clydebank disappearing into oblivion despite having a bigger population than Dumbarton. Their problem was their proximity to Glasgow as is ours. If only people would go to a football match simply to support their team however in the West of Scotland things don't happen that way .For years we had a local newspaper editor who openly despised Dumbarton Fc when they were successful in the seventies but how do you change people's mentality?

[Toby]

4 minutes ago, Scottylintonstowel said:

Sadly the true Dumbarton fans are dying off whilst newcomers to the town have no interest in the club. Those who live locally who support the old firm will never transfer to their local club. Numbers will continue to decrease no matter how successful Dumbarton are. We have seen Clydebank disappearing into oblivion despite having a bigger population than Dumbarton. Their problem was their proximity to Glasgow as is ours. If only people would go to a football match simply to support their team however in the West of Scotland things don't happen that way .For years we had a local newspaper editor who openly despised Dumbarton Fc when they were successful in the seventies but how do you change people's mentality?

You're seriously blaming a newspaper editor from 40 years ago for your club's lack of support and subsequent decision to charge folk a ridiculous premium to watch the current lot?

F*ck off.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

We're caught between a rock and a hard place.

In an ideal world prices would be capped. Personally I think £15 would be the maximum amount that should be charged in our league, with £18 in the top flight, £13 in league 1 and a tenner in league 2.

If we were to drop our prices across the board then would we see an increased capacity at Dumbarton home games? Almost certainly not in sufficient numbers to make up for the lost income. If it was a straight up choice of 700 fans paying £20 or 1000 paying £14 then its clear that we'd go for the numbers every time. Numbers generate atmosphere. Numbers generate interest. Numbers give us a fanbase we can do things with.

In reality we'd draw no more than 800 home fans and end up losing nearly £3,000 a game.

Dumbarton, the Vale of Leven, Helensburgh and the surrounding areas really don't care about our club. Thats the big problem we need to address. Unfortunately recognising it is only a small step. How do you actually go about getting fans along to their local club? How do you stop the cars and busses that go to Glasgow every other Saturday to go to the Your Radio Stadium? The utterly ludicrous sight of a banner with the words "Dumbarton Loyal" in the AWAY end of our ground. The complete fucknuttery of locals wishing our club went bankrupt because we dared to sign Ian Durant as assistant manager and he happened to play for the half of the old firm that they don't support.

Price is a small part of a massive problem and the fans who do go end up paying dearly for it.

I'm not altogether convinced by that statement, but if you pitch your entrance fees at a level all only the most committed will consider then you will most certainly not encourage or engage the local populace.  Add to that, it is also the case that for the last few seasons Dumbarton have been performing a Wigan/Wimbledon tribute act, ie admirable in a studiously defensive footballing sort of way, which is hardly conducive to attracting the curious, and at a price too.

And the local OF mob can be discounted as having any impact on all of this, for the simple reason that they have always been with us.  And it's not as if every other team in Scotland has dissimilar issues.

Perhaps the really unpalatable truth in all of this is that whilst we have never enjoyed a huge support base, what was there has dwindled due to the way in which DFC, or more accurately a succession of its out of touch office-bearers has now pissed off too many people too often for its own good, and it would not matter a f**k if the entrance charge was three quid.  As long as we have the current absentee landlords and a permanently embattled mentality in the Boardroom we are indeed caught between a rock and a hard place - somehow addressing THAT is the big issue.  

[pleslie99]

We have now entered the territory of loyal fans not bothering to turn up because of prices. Myself included.

Sure I'll attend more than a few games this season but it will be absolutely nowhere near every game. Nor will it be enough games to remotely cover the cost of a season ticket. I've already started penning in plans for Saturday's we're playing at home this season, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one. I also know of numerous fairweather fans who are scoffing at this year's prices and their 4 or 5 games a season will probably now be 1 or 2 tops.

It's not about dropping prices, it's about not increasing them to the point they are utterly unjustifiable. We managed fine on last year's prices so why the sudden need to start charging folk the likes of 15 quid for a shitey League Cup game, increase the early bird season ticket price by 50 quid as well as adding 2 quid onto last year's walk up prices? It's also fairly well publicised that the playing budget is being reduced. Where's the incentive?

Fair play to anyone who's willing to pay it regularly. I'm certainly not.

I'm with you on this. I haven't had a season ticket for a few years due to work and the amount of games I could go to has reduced year on year meaning it's not financially viable. Last year I saw very few games and this year it will be the same. With a new addition to the family on the way you can imagine how my wife feels when I say I'm going to pay £20 to watch the game plus the rest for beer etc. Yeah the couch isn't that comfy!

[Howlin' Wilf]

9 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'm not altogether convinced by that statement, but if you pitch your entrance fees at a level all only the most committed will consider then you will most certainly not encourage or engage the local populace.  Add to that, it is also the case that for the last few seasons Dumbarton have been performing a Wigan/Wimbledon tribute act, ie admirable in a studiously defensive footballing sort of way, which is hardly conducive to attracting the curious, and at a price too.

And the local OF mob can be discounted as having any impact on all of this, for the simple reason that they have always been with us.  And it's not as if every other team in Scotland has dissimilar issues.

Perhaps the really unpalatable truth in all of this is that whilst we have never enjoyed a huge support base, what was there has dwindled due to the way in which DFC, or more accurately a succession of its out of touch office-bearers has now pissed off too many people too often for its own good, and it would not matter a f**k if the entrance charge was three quid.  As long as we have the current absentee landlords and a permanently embattled mentality in the Boardroom we are indeed caught between a rock and a hard place - somehow addressing THAT is the big issue.  

It's really only the diehards that have any in-depth awareness of what's happening in the boardroom though. The average or casual fan has no idea of the internal politics or dynamics within the club. We were amongst the first clubs in Scotland to have trust representation on the board, we're in a fairly modern stadium and we have had Championship football for five seasons. The general public are more aware of these things than boardroom choreography. And yet they choose not to attend......in their droves. Are there really that many potential fans pissed off at the board? Ah hae ma doots.

[Howlin' Wilf]

38 minutes ago, Toby said:

You're seriously blaming a newspaper editor from 40 years ago for your club's lack of support and subsequent decision to charge folk a ridiculous premium to watch the current lot?

F*ck off.

The said editor was there until well into the new millennium and belittled the club at every opportunity. As a Jihadi Sellick fan he is all too typical of the Dumbarton mind set which doesn't recognise that there's fitba' in their own town.

 

[Toby]

20 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

The said editor was there until well into the new millennium and belittled the club at every opportunity. As a Jihadi Sellick fan he is all too typical of the Dumbarton mind set which doesn't recognise that there's fitba' in their own town.

 

It's a surprise you still have a club to watch, having battled against such adversities.

[BallochSonsFan]

It's really only the diehards that have any in-depth awareness of what's happening in the boardroom though. The average or casual fan has no idea of the internal politics or dynamics within the club. We were amongst the first clubs in Scotland to have trust representation on the board, we're in a fairly modern stadium and we have had Championship football for five seasons. The general public are more aware of these things than boardroom choreography. And yet they choose not to attend......in their droves. Are there really that many potential fans pissed off at the board? Ah hae ma doots.

I agree.

Boardroom politics will alienate existing fans. High prices will help push existing fans away. What those things won't do is prevent new fans from going to games.

We've been on a fantastic run over the past 5 years. It won't last. Season 6 may be a season too far. It may be season 7. Or 8. Relegation is a constant threat. We took multiple buses to Aberdeen in the Scottish cup and easily the same again in independent travellers. So why can't we attract new fans?

It's something we need to address in the immediate future. High ticket costs are a symptom of where we are as a club right now. They're not a cause. They might push crowds down but they're not the reason that most locals are apathetic towards us.

[sons'r'us]

Interesting that a Sons V Ton thread has turned into a debate about the politics of Dumbarton FC and the reason or not the local population may or may not attend. This kind of chat is more akin to 'Sons Sorrow' and is indeed quite apt for that thread title too.

Of course the price increase is a matter of displeasure to many and it won't be the last time it is discussed this year. Unfortunately the prices are here for the season and the club would have done well to engage with the fans 1st prior to increasing the price.

I'm hoping the prices don't have a significant affect on away fans coming and I would still expect a decent crowd for this game given it is the season opener.

No doubt this will be a hard fixture to take something from for Sons. I am encouraged by a similar injury crisis with Morton though and would bite your hand off for a point just now.

[boulderdomb]

I have said for years the biggest problems facing any club in the west coast of Scotland is the close proximity to the old firm grounds and nothing will change as there is no longer a culture to support your local team.

[Boghead ranter]

Apologies to all 'Ton fans having to wade through C&Ps from Sons Sorrow.

[Paisley Ton]

Maybe all road works on Erskine bridge lanes to south should be carried out on Saturdays with republic passports invalidated at Dumbarton Road.

This is  the age old glory hunter problem perpetuated by the cash and grab the old firm did with the keep the home gate money con.

Get into the schools, with valid  Disclosure Scotland child worker certificates, summer community activities etc granted it's difficult with part-time players but hey we understand your pain.

[Poet of the Macabre]

Anyone that pays £20 to watch a game in this league needs their head looked at.