Anas Sarwar

[Loondave1]

Not hoping at all

I think you will find hoping racists are brought out and exposed is a bit different to hoping people are racists.You know this though.

[Loondave1]

I can’t put Corbyn in Number 10. You can’t put Corbyn in Number 10. The entire nation of Scotland can’t put Corbyn in Number 10.
Your newfound love of Corbyn, and belief that he will single handedly change the UK into something you approve of, will not change that. A majority of voters in England will have to share your blind belief in Comrade Corbyn turning around decades (if not centuries) of the UK’s economic direction. Good luck convincing the people that need to be convinced that the UK should be a separatist socialist utopia.
I suspect you know this, though, and the recent spurt of activity signifies some sad need to bait and troll for attention (after all, you’ve admitted this is how you pass your time).

Thing is you don't want the UK changed into a "socialist utopia" even if it happened.Your sole aim is Indy then sort it all out later.I understand that but don't share that view.

[Loondave1]

So the labour drones are still buying this Corbyn playing the long game shite.
In the same way they lapped up Blair's pragmatic road to socialism.
Corbyn is a Bennite hard brexit juche socialist.

Much of that definition of Corbyn i like bar the "hard Brexit".

[bob the tank]

Serious question loondave1, what age are you?

[BerwickMad]

Corbyn is no more principled than the people his supporters, egged on by his henchmen, constantly attack as ‘unprincipled careerist Blairite blah blah blah’.

 

His supporters getting all upset with people like Murray and Umunna now, pretending they’re grandstanding and not looking at the over all impact or knock on consequences is hilarious.

 

When the Blair and Brown governments were delivering the biggest progressive change the country had seen in decades from a moderate/centre-left position, he’d be grandstanding himself, pretending to be principled while conveniently ignoring the overall picture. He spent about 30 years not even bothering himself to be on the parliamentary committees, scrutinising the government, so their stance now criticising others is ridiculous.

 

 

[Granny Danger]

37 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

So the labour drones are still buying this Corbyn playing the long game shite.

In the same way they lapped up Blair's pragmatic road to socialism.

Corbyn is a Bennite hard brexit juche socialist.

Other than Brexit and Independence which other policies that Corbyn espouses do you disagree with.

[invergowrie arab]

20 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Other than Brexit and Independence which other policies that Corbyn espouses do you disagree with.

Well it's a stupid question because Brexit and independence are macro policies which influence everything else in a way that nationalising busses isn't.

I'm not even 100% against an anti free market, open borders Brexit. That isn't what Corbyn is facilitating though.

God knows what you thought you were voting for when you voted leave but I'm sure this isn't it.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

So the labour drones are still buying this Corbyn playing the long game shite.

In the same way they lapped up Blair's pragmatic road to socialism.

Corbyn is a Bennite hard brexit juche socialist.

 

And don't we love it. 

[Loondave1]

Serious question loondave1, what age are you?

55. Wilson is the first PM i remember.

 

[Loondave1]

Corbyn is no more principled than the people his supporters, egged on by his henchmen, constantly attack as ‘unprincipled careerist Blairite blah blah blah’.
 
His supporters getting all upset with people like Murray and Umunna now, pretending they’re grandstanding and not looking at the over all impact or knock on consequences is hilarious.
 
When the Blair and Brown governments were delivering the biggest progressive change the country had seen in decades from a moderate/centre-left position, he’d be grandstanding himself, pretending to be principled while conveniently ignoring the overall picture. He spent about 30 years not even bothering himself to be on the parliamentary committees, scrutinising the government, so their stance now criticising others is ridiculous.
 
 

"Henchmen" [emoji23][emoji23]

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

Well it's a stupid question because Brexit and independence are macro policies which influence everything else in a way that nationalising busses isn't.

I'm not even 100% against an anti free market, open borders Brexit. That isn't what Corbyn is facilitating though.

God knows what you thought you were voting for when you voted leave but I'm sure this isn't it.

Wow.  Pretty defensive response; not sure why, but I’ll refrain from asking further ‘stupid questions’.

[mjw]

I think it's a widely accepted opinion country wide. I can't imagine a Tory-lite party would propose the repeal of the Trade Union Act.

Will they do that if they get in again?
They didn't go near it last time.

[Loondave1]

Will they do that if they get in again?
They didn't go near it last time.

Point is it's barely recognisable as Blairs party not quite sure why people are in denial about that.The fact that according to some Corbyn is a "Red Tory" and others a "Marxist lefty" shows how much has changed.

[mjw]

Point is it's barely recognisable as Blairs party not quite sure why people are in denial about that.The fact that according to some Corbyn is a "Red Tory" and others a "Marxist lefty" shows how much has changed.

Yes.
Blairs party won elections.

[Loondave1]

Yes.
Blairs party won elections.

Indeed and Corbyn might just do that from a much more radical position which is a lot harder.

[renton]

 

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 

And don't we love it. 

I have some sympathy with the notion that the EU as it is structured is not a terribly progressive institution, at least economically. Neo-Liberalism is built into the foundations after all. Further, as an independence supporter it'd be a bit brass neck of me to decry the pull of more accountable, local government.

Having said that, the relationship between Scotland and the UK is vastly different to that of the UK and the EU, in terms of where control is situated. So Corbyn's openly secret pro Brexit stance feels a bit hollow on those grounds. Westminster isn't forced into it's regressive stances by the EU, after all.

Beyond that Corbyn feels like a nostalgic novelty. He wants to centralize, nationalize, command and control the central pillars of the economy. I'm not entirely certain he has anything useful to say about the 21st century. He's kind of a symptom of the same phenomenon as to why folk love Great British Bake Off.  It's John Major wistfully longing for lazy summer afternoons at the crease with a pint of warm beer. Bang out a couple of verses of the Red Flag flying to feel good about yourself. For me the big issues coming down the pipe: Climate change, automation, personal privacy, the collapse of traditional capitalism as a function of manufacturing cost, a functioning economy post Brexit - I don't see Corbyn as any kind of a deep thinker or radical on these subjects. He's not the future.

[NotThePars]

Think it's quite funny to suggest that SLYS, Momentum and the like aren't engaging with issues around climate change, automation, personal privacy and especially the collapse of traditional capitalism. Furthermore I don't see which other party is taking the lead in any of these arenas. I was a member of the SNP for 3 years and didn't see these discussions being advanced to any significant degree other than maybe around climate change.

[renton]

27 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Think it's quite funny to suggest that SLYS, Momentum and the like aren't engaging with issues around climate change, automation, personal privacy and especially the collapse of traditional capitalism. Furthermore I don't see which other party is taking the lead in any of these arenas. I was a member of the SNP for 3 years and didn't see these discussions being advanced to any significant degree other than maybe around climate change.

I didn't say anyone else is. However, i'd draw the line at calling Corbyn radical when all he's serving is re-heated dogma from the 70s. 

The SNP are not, and never will be a radical proposition in government, at least outside their constitutional policy. The upshot of that is a need to be seen as sensible and competent as a government. This makes them more risk averse in policy. Albeit it looks very much like an income tax shift is coming in December.  

Labour on the other hand, have as their central tenent the improvement of the lot of the working class. Their progressive nature, given the historical tendency for wealth to accumulate in one strata of individuals should be inbuilt. Yet i don't see any real engagement with the real issues coming our way, on the one hand because Corbyn is a literal dinosaur, on the other because the Labour party as a bunch of Oxbridge humanities graduates have literally no clue about the continuing technical revolution we are going through. It's fucking tragic really. The Tories will always be ignorant, stupid and mean the Lib Dems useless and the Greens a fringe group until London is swallowed up by a plastic filled flood. Yet Labour will never be a progressive force while its glorious leader is intent on refighting the winter of discontent.

Edited November 21, 2017 by renton

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Wow.  Pretty defensive response; not sure why, but I’ll refrain from asking further ‘stupid questions’.

I'll ask one then. What did you hope to achieve by voting leave and how do you think it's going?

I'll fully admit this issue "triggers" me.

[NotThePars]

Corbyn's a mild social democrat. That's fairly radical for 2017 when everyone thought left wing politics dead across the board as recently as April of this year. Corbyn's also one man but the expansion of Labour Party member groups, publications such as The New Socialist and even media outlets such as Novara Media, although I find them irritating personally,  is emblematic IMO of a wider engagement with the issues that you've highlighted. It reminds me of 2014 except there is actually momentum and a feeling that the party co-opting the momentum isn't going to do nothing with it.