Sturgeon/Barnier Meeting

[The Chlamydia Kid]

nothing like a bit casual misogyny in the morning to get you going eh?

Nothing to say about virginton's "stay at home mum" remark though, or they repeated "kick her in the hole" and "wid" references all over the forum? Stop pretending you care.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Nothing to say about virginton's "stay at home mum" remark though, or they repeated "kick her in the hole" and "wid" references all over the forum? Stop pretending you care.

I don't think anyone's ever pretended to care what you post tbh

[Al666]

I can only hope she's paying for it herself, as it's well outwith her remit as the leader of a devolved regional assembly.

[mjw]

Exactly. Its either wall to wall fakery with these posters or a total lack of self awareness. Or perhaps they are so deluded about being on the moral high ground that they dont see the problem with what they are posting themselves.

Bless.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Bless.

[emoji38] Having those two losers like your posts is a sure sign you're doing it wrong.

Tremendous.

[Granny Danger]

Personally I am disgusted with Sturgeon!

Imagine the First Minister of Scotland wasting her time talking to the EU's chief Brexit negotiator about the implications of Brexit on Scotland.

It's not as if the Scottish people voted voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU and that Scotland's economy will suffere drastically as a result of our exit from the Single Market.

Why can't she just concentrate on her day job?

[Cerberus]

Nothing to say about virginton's "stay at home mum" remark though, or they repeated "kick her in the hole" and "wid" references all over the forum? Stop pretending you care.

You deserve a kick in the pie for being a mad grass.

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Personally I am disgusted with Sturgeon!

Imagine the First Minister of Scotland wasting her time talking to the EU's chief Brexit negotiator about the implications of Brexit on Scotland.

It's not as if the Scottish people voted voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU and that Scotland's economy will suffere drastically as a result of our exit from the Single Market.

Why can't she just concentrate on her day job?

We haven't left the Single Market  and we do not yet know our future relationship with the EU so you can't know the effect. You can go on playing project fear though  as you're unable to see beyond your narrow party political world view. 

It's quite illuminating to see the effect Brexit is having on a large swathe of the population. Just at the time the country needs a single minded sense of national purpose, a lot of weak, privileged  and self serving  cowards are doing their utmost to undermine the democratically mandated will of the people. It's f*cking embarrasing!

[Shades75]

18 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

We haven't left the Single Market  and we do not yet know our future relationship with the EU so you can't know the effect. You can go on playing project fear though  as you're unable to see beyond your narrow party political world view. 

It's quite illuminating to see the effect Brexit is having on a large swathe of the population. Just at the time the country needs a single minded sense of national purpose, a lot of weak, privileged  and self serving  cowards are doing their utmost to undermine the democratically mandated will of the people. It's f*cking embarrasing!

If I jump out of a building, there is a minute chance that I won't hit the pavement below.  We can't really just "wait and see" though.  It's better not to jump in the first place.

The fact that, to this day and given the amount of talking and posturing that there is not one single figure, on the Brexit side, making a sensible, scrutable case for existing the EU beyond vague notions of "taking back control" and "controlling our borders" is what is "fucking embarrassing".

It is entirely incredible that much of the same people who demanded a fully costed, fully tested and fully explained, for the first generation (at least), on every measure of society, economy, education, health and fucking pig-farming,  of Scottish independence can come up with "wait and see" as their best shot at justifying Brexit, and that's it.  We're supposed to shuffle off and accept that without question.  It's an insult at best and a disgrace somewhere further down that line.

Luckily, for them, there are enough imbeciles who will stand dutifully by their side and help to defend the indefensible because of, I dunno....the Union, FREEDOM!!!!!, or some such shite.

The burden of proof, that the Brexit side were entirely willing to accept and that now have that responsibility to deal with, is now the fundamental point in question.  To brush off any antagonists with "wait and see" or some wholly unjust accusations of a lack of patriotism seems to me to be utterly desperate and displays the kind of panic that a man drowning might display.

The scrutiny, questioning and testing of theory and idea must absolutely be kept up until, at some point, the Brexit side either come up with some kind of proper explanation for what they plan, how they expect to get an agreeable outcome and what might happen, within reasonable margins, of what might happen next.

To continue with the line, which amounts to "Please just leave us alone and stop asking questions" is an utter farce.

It's that non-sensical that it is mostly bacterial pond life (that's you, that is), that doff their cap and march forth with it into society.  You do the second referendum brigade and remainers absolutely no harm.  None at all.  You're quite the asset, in fact.

[jakedee]

. I'm f*cking embarrasing!

[The Chlamydia Kid]

You deserve a kick in the pie for being a mad grass.

Eh?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Exactly. Its either wall to wall fakery with these posters or a total lack of self awareness. Or perhaps they are so deluded about being on the moral high ground that they dont see the problem with what they are posting themselves.

Oh the irony.

[McSpreader]

10 hours ago, Shades75 said:

If I jump out of a building, there is a minute chance that I won't hit the pavement below.  We can't really just "wait and see" though.  It's better not to jump in the first place.

The fact that, to this day and given the amount of talking and posturing that there is not one single figure, on the Brexit side, making a sensible, scrutable case for existing the EU beyond vague notions of "taking back control" and "controlling our borders" is what is "fucking embarrassing".

It is entirely incredible that much of the same people who demanded a fully costed, fully tested and fully explained, for the first generation (at least), on every measure of society, economy, education, health and fucking pig-farming,  of Scottish independence can come up with "wait and see" as their best shot at justifying Brexit, and that's it.  We're supposed to shuffle off and accept that without question.  It's an insult at best and a disgrace somewhere further down that line.

Luckily, for them, there are enough imbeciles who will stand dutifully by their side and help to defend the indefensible because of, I dunno....the Union, FREEDOM!!!!!, or some such shite.

The burden of proof, that the Brexit side were entirely willing to accept and that now have that responsibility to deal with, is now the fundamental point in question.  To brush off any antagonists with "wait and see" or some wholly unjust accusations of a lack of patriotism seems to me to be utterly desperate and displays the kind of panic that a man drowning might display.

The scrutiny, questioning and testing of theory and idea must absolutely be kept up until, at some point, the Brexit side either come up with some kind of proper explanation for what they plan, how they expect to get an agreeable outcome and what might happen, within reasonable margins, of what might happen next.

To continue with the line, which amounts to "Please just leave us alone and stop asking questions" is an utter farce.

It's that non-sensical that it is mostly bacterial pond life (that's you, that is), that doff their cap and march forth with it into society.  You do the second referendum brigade and remainers absolutely no harm.  None at all.  You're quite the asset, in fact.

That's not a particularly good analogy as jumping out of a ground floor window will do you no harm, a first floor window may give you a twisted ankle and a third floor window runs the risk of breaking hips/legs and  internal organ damage. Higher than that will probably kill you.  I suggest that with the UK's economy/society we will be jumping out of a ground floor window. No doubt that is where we fundamentally disagree.

I disagree that there isn't anyone on the Brexit side with a coherent plan. They simply aren't saying what YOU want to hear.

Your continuing repeating of vague mutterings such as 'Union , Freedom or taking back control or sumfink' type statements shows why you are such a gibbering seething mess. The fundamentals of any fight is to know your enemy and you show a complete lack of nous in that department.

Brexit is a given. The detail is to be negotiated. You are anti Brexit yet you froth at the mouth with the indignity of not knowing the details or being kept in the loop. Perhaps you should have conducted a better Remain campaign instead of getting all bitter, twisted, personal and vitriolic. That tactic failed and yet you continue to use it.....eh?

These are complex and far reaching negotiations with consequences that are going to affect the global economy for a generation. The EU were no more prepared for Brexit than the UK as proven by their 3 minute meeting to ratify their negotiating position and their constant, angry briefings to the press trying to dominate the pre-negotiating agenda . Why you want the UK Gov't to expose it's negotiating position and give away any advantage it has is beyond me. 

One of the problems we face is that, despite triggering article 50, we are bound by very restrictive rules governing preventing us negotiating with non -EU countries and very vague information as to what happens next as the EU  ( including the UK ) never really envisaged a major economy leaving.

It's funny you say I'm an asset ......to what? You lost the argument for the EU and lost for ScotIndy. The next item on the agenda is Brexit.....nothing else matters and there is nothing happening until we are out of the EU.......details forthcoming.

Feel free to shower more abuse on me......it's like horse shit on a Bed of Roses!

[Shades75]

3 hours ago, McSpreader said:

That's not a particularly good analogy as jumping out of a ground floor window will do you no harm, a first floor window may give you a twisted ankle and a third floor window runs the risk of breaking hips/legs and  internal organ damage. Higher than that will probably kill you.  I suggest that with the UK's economy/society we will be jumping out of a ground floor window. No doubt that is where we fundamentally disagree.

I disagree that there isn't anyone on the Brexit side with a coherent plan. They simply aren't saying what YOU want to hear.

Your continuing repeating of vague mutterings such as 'Union , Freedom or taking back control or sumfink' type statements shows why you are such a gibbering seething mess. The fundamentals of any fight is to know your enemy and you show a complete lack of nous in that department.

Brexit is a given. The detail is to be negotiated. You are anti Brexit yet you froth at the mouth with the indignity of not knowing the details or being kept in the loop. Perhaps you should have conducted a better Remain campaign instead of getting all bitter, twisted, personal and vitriolic. That tactic failed and yet you continue to use it.....eh?

These are complex and far reaching negotiations with consequences that are going to affect the global economy for a generation. The EU were no more prepared for Brexit than the UK as proven by their 3 minute meeting to ratify their negotiating position and their constant, angry briefings to the press trying to dominate the pre-negotiating agenda . Why you want the UK Gov't to expose it's negotiating position and give away any advantage it has is beyond me. 

One of the problems we face is that, despite triggering article 50, we are bound by very restrictive rules governing preventing us negotiating with non -EU countries and very vague information as to what happens next as the EU  ( including the UK ) never really envisaged a major economy leaving.

It's funny you say I'm an asset ......to what? You lost the argument for the EU and lost for ScotIndy. The next item on the agenda is Brexit.....nothing else matters and there is nothing happening until we are out of the EU.......details forthcoming.

Feel free to shower more abuse on me......it's like horse shit on a Bed of Roses!

Your whole post boils down to;

 

The remain side lost, so should shut up.

Brexit means Brexit.

It's awfy complicated.

The EU are being obstinate.

 

We'be heard all this a million times.  It doesn't wash.

The positives of Brexit need to be transmitted.  The benefits for the UK and it's residents shown.  Not tired cliche's and vague sound bites.

Let's hear it...

Why and how will our trade benefit?

Will we manufacture more or less and how will our exports/imports be affected?

Will our financial service providers be minded to move their offices?

Will our agricultural and fisheries benefit, how?

What is the net migration figures to be?  Will that benefit Essex more than Aviemore?

Will we need to open up more of our public services to overseas private ownership?  Will the USA have access to our NHS services?

Will our human rights legislation be stricter or more lax?  What about health and safety?  Do we need to relax these to attract investment and create jobs?

How will our students be treated abroad?  How will EU students be treated here?  What will they have access to?

Will the devolved assemblies automatically receive the powers that they have at the moment, back?

Will NI and Eire have that hard border?

Will the French move the Calais border over to Dover?

 

I think we can accept that hard answers are difficult to give.  But answers that fall within reasonable expectations should not be.

These are just a few questions.  There are myriad more and there are answers for none, at the moment.  I'd like to be on the planet that does not find that worrying.  That is something that the Brexit side show a complete and wilful disdain for.  Some people are genuinely worried about what is going to happen.  It is remiss not to accept that uncertainty is the mother of worry.  

To say "We can't tell you what we want or how we'll get it because that gives away our negotiating position so you'll just have to wait and see.  But, by the way, if you'd all just shut up and support us that would be great" is laughable.

You can write that off as "seething", or "blithering" if you want.  It matters not to me, but it is an indicator of the kind of un-questioning serfdom that the Brexit side seem to expect.  It's not surprising, therefore, that Brexit was borne from Right-wing ideology and archaic nationalism.

[Granny Danger]

There seems to be a growing number of folk involved in big business and their representative organisations who are hoping for a 'transitional arrangement' that will take us to the next election by which time an incoming government will modify the stance on the Single Market.

Not surprisingly, at the same time they are taking what steps they need to in order to eleviate the worse excesses in case this transitional arrangement does not materialise.

Whilst a trasitional arrangement may be on the cards I think the defeat of the anti-EU politicians in Holland and France will mean that it will not be a particularly favourable one.  No offer will be made that may encourage other countries to follow the Brexit route.

I wonder if there will be a point when the big business donors to the conservative party begin to turn the screws?

 

[WILLIEA]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

.

I wonder if there will be a point when the big business donors to the conservative party begin to turn the screws?

 

I certainly hope so and there does seem to be a change in the narrative recently even in the media.

[McSpreader]

7 hours ago, Shades75 said:

Your whole post boils down to;

 

The remain side lost, so should shut up.

Brexit means Brexit.

It's awfy complicated.

The EU are being obstinate.

 

We'be heard all this a million times.  It doesn't wash.

The positives of Brexit need to be transmitted.  The benefits for the UK and it's residents shown.  Not tired cliche's and vague sound bites.

Let's hear it...

Why and how will our trade benefit?

Will we manufacture more or less and how will our exports/imports be affected?

Will our financial service providers be minded to move their offices?

Will our agricultural and fisheries benefit, how?

What is the net migration figures to be?  Will that benefit Essex more than Aviemore?

Will we need to open up more of our public services to overseas private ownership?  Will the USA have access to our NHS services?

Will our human rights legislation be stricter or more lax?  What about health and safety?  Do we need to relax these to attract investment and create jobs?

How will our students be treated abroad?  How will EU students be treated here?  What will they have access to?

Will the devolved assemblies automatically receive the powers that they have at the moment, back?

Will NI and Eire have that hard border?

Will the French move the Calais border over to Dover?

 

I think we can accept that hard answers are difficult to give.  But answers that fall within reasonable expectations should not be.

These are just a few questions.  There are myriad more and there are answers for none, at the moment.  I'd like to be on the planet that does not find that worrying.  That is something that the Brexit side show a complete and wilful disdain for.  Some people are genuinely worried about what is going to happen.  It is remiss not to accept that uncertainty is the mother of worry.  

To say "We can't tell you what we want or how we'll get it because that gives away our negotiating position so you'll just have to wait and see.  But, by the way, if you'd all just shut up and support us that would be great" is laughable.

You can write that off as "seething", or "blithering" if you want.  It matters not to me, but it is an indicator of the kind of un-questioning serfdom that the Brexit side seem to expect.  It's not surprising, therefore, that Brexit was borne from Right-wing ideology and archaic nationalism.

You say 'the positives ' of Brexit need to be transmitted. I think you'll find the Brexiteers have been doing that for a fair while now. You would rather wilfully disparage the message.

All the questions you demand answers to  are all fine and dandy and Kuensberg herself could hardly  have put together a more comprehensive and negatively loaded series of queries.

Our friends in Europe have made it clear they are not willing to keep the same relationship with the UK post Brexit ergo all of that which you have highlighted forms an integral part of the negotiations and as such it is currently not possible to say exactly how the current arrangements will change post Brexit.......You get that, right?

It's not a case of 'unquestioning serfdom' as you so immaturely state as I am a master of my own destiny in life but British nationalism seems to me, as someone who doesn't buy into 'Nationalism' , far more dynamic, relevant and powerful than this obsession with Braveheart , the Jacobites and 350 year old wars that you buy in to that requires the SNP to  demonise rUK and bribe the electorate with baubles such as free prescriptions, bridge tolls and the like....all of which I'm paying for, tyvm!  Nor is it a right wing ideology as Brexit had cross party support and true socialist parties do not support  the EU...... http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22495.

As I've said before, hold your nerve , and start realising that the UK is leaving and it is in all our interests to get the best deal possible. If you have ever been involved in complex negotiations on behalf of others ( Union pay negotiations perhaps)  you know there is a process to be followed and the EU coming out with their position first is perfectly reasonable, normal and indicative of their desire to find common ground. There is no rush to respond and the EU and the UK will be working feverishly behind the scenes to work out where there is scope for compromise and where the red lines are.. One thing for sure is that we have delegated this responsibility to the Brexirt negotiating team and will be the last to know......I wouldn't expect it any other way and I'm shocked that  otherwise seemingly averagely intelligent members of this forum are falling over themselves to come across as complete and utter Humpty Dumptys on this matter....!!

[trainspotter]

"Our friends in Europe" 

Did you actually pay attention to the Out campaign? Engaging with Europe was definitely not "on message"

[mjw]

All those words just to stick the old Braveheart pish in.

Thanks for paying all our prescription fees and bridge tolls as well.
Must be murder being the only taxpayer in Scotland.

[Pearbuyerbell]

9 hours ago, Shades75 said:

 

The positives of Brexit need to be transmitted.  The benefits for the UK and it's residents shown.  Not tired cliche's and vague sound bites.

Let's hear it...

 

2

I'm afraid that's all you got in reply.