Cotter shettleston

[rednblack]

Football is full of people who had "trials" at pro youth , Celtic , Rangers ,Junior etC The game is full of arses who exaggerate their "achievements". 

90% of players are at their level, whatever that may be. 

I await a barrage of whataboutary

 

I actually agree with you most of the top amateur sides now are full of guys who have been decent or even good junior players at one time but could never do it long term and consistently that's why many decide when still in twenties to play top amateur as it's easier for them to excel at that level .Could also pick out a senior junior example also easily.

 

On the face of it shettleston have lots going for them by that i mean a busy social club, good area population wise, decent history in the game but it never really materialises further than them being a one man band.

 

They would currently need to be down as one of relegation favs.

 

 

 

[Viewparker]

I must admit of all the places I've been to watch junior football Shettleston is the one place I've felt uncomfortable. Hopefully Cotter can move on and take his expertise elsewhere. 

[spud4]

There is no doubt there is some better players in the amateur game than in the the juniors and vice versa. For me I think the standard at juniors is better than most amateur levels. Personal opinion only. We could have a better insight into the argument when the Scottish cup games come up as I believe Colville park are in it this year so will be interesting to see how far they can go. As for amateur teams beating junior teams in friendlies I would take that with a pinch of salt as they are just training exercises in most cases.

[Viewparker]

14 minutes ago, Viewparker said:

Football is full of people who had "trials" at pro youth , Celtic , Rangers ,Junior etC

The game is full of arses who exaggerate their "achievements". 

90% of players are at their level, whatever that may be. 

I await a barrage of whataboutary

Sorry I take something back it's usually their dads who is the arse

[theshed]

Sorry I take something back it's usually their dads who is the arse

Biggest differences between junior and amateur is fitness , discipline and professional standards .

Take the one several years ago when the guy knapp of Hurlford Ammies / United or whatever they're called , guy was dropped from a game , ordered a taxi to the pub in Hurlford post game and told the taxi driver to keep the engine running , he runs in the pub and bottles his coach , goes to court and granted bail and Is told to stay x amount of miles away from the coach , big semi final of Scot cup comes up and coach is told to stay in the hoose to enable knapp to play in the game and not break his bail conditions.

There is no way that the guy would have got away with this in the juniors and would have been hunted for the assault on his coach , things like this are the main difference between junior and amateur .

[cotter]

On 7/10/2017 at 12:47, the town said:

The amatuer players that were coming in to shettleson were very good players.they all have good expierence by playing junior opposition most weeks.a few knew they needed bit extra fitness.and were willing to come in for extra training.so had the correct attitude..... .also everyone of them signed for no money..n we were looking forward to see how some of them would have adapted.in league.my own personal opinion is with the squad we had asembled.n ones we could have got in loan of top clubs.once season had started.we would have been challanging to go up....cheers cotter...

 

[cmontheloknow]

Colville Park got beat 1-0 by Girvan last season in the Scottish Cup, from digging about this is a selection of who was in their squad over the course of the year:

A bit of guessing with who the players are in terms of previous clubs in my own records but hopefully fairly accurate..

Bradley, Jamie (35) ex Greenock Juniors
Bradshaw, Kieran (29) ex Thorniewood
Burden, Stephen (29) ex Dumbarton*, just signed for Largs
Clearie, Alex (33) ex Lok, Maryhill, Albion Rovers
Craig, Chris (28) ex Rangers*, Dumbarton, Alloa, Airdrie, Kilbirnie, Peasy, Blantyre
Fotheringham, Kevin (28) ex Stirling Albion*, Oakley, Queen's Park
Greenlees, Steven (27) ex Stenny*, Albion Rovers*, Glenafton, Hurlford
McCallum, Owen (21) Not aware of any Junipr.Senior past - was with Campsie Minerva last season
McDevitt, Steven (32) ex Cumbernauld U and Vale of Clyde
McKay, Dave (32) ex Clyde
McLean, Darren (26) ex Morton*, Meadow, Kilbirnie, Peasy, Blantyre, Pollok (plus played a competitive trial for Ayr vs East Fife in 2010-11)
Marshall, Kenny (26) ex Shettleston & Yoker
Miller, Darren (20) ex Albion Rovers, Meadow, Queens Park, Dumbarton*, Kilbirnie, Clyde
Miller, James (26) ex Stenhousemuir*, Carluke, Blantyre
Mulvay, James (33) don't think he's been Junior / senior
Pearce, Lance (25) ex Partick* and Dalry
Thompson, Lee (30) ex Albion Rovers, Troon, Bellshill and Larkhall -with Kilbirnie last season too?
Tierney, Garry (31) ex Hearts, Airdrie, Forfar
Ward, Ryan (32) ex Kilbirnie, Dalry and Pollok

* = never played 1st team at Senior level

 

[Denniston Afc]

1 hour ago, spud4 said:

There is no doubt there is some better players in the amateur game than in the the juniors and vice versa. For me I think the standard at juniors is better than most amateur levels. Personal opinion only. We could have a better insight into the argument when the Scottish cup games come up as I believe Colville park are in it this year so will be interesting to see how far they can go. As for amateur teams beating junior teams in friendlies I would take that with a pinch of salt as they are just training exercises in most cases.

No team I've been involved with have played a meaningless friendly

[Viewparker]

30 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Colville Park got beat 1-0 by Girvan last season in the Scottish Cup, from digging about this is a selection of who was in their squad over the course of the year:

A bit of guessing with who the players are in terms of previous clubs in my own records but hopefully fairly accurate..

Bradley, Jamie (35) ex Greenock Juniors
Bradshaw, Kieran (29) ex Thorniewood
Burden, Stephen (29) ex Dumbarton*, just signed for Largs
Clearie, Alex (33) ex Lok, Maryhill, Albion Rovers
Craig, Chris (28) ex Rangers*, Dumbarton, Alloa, Airdrie, Kilbirnie, Peasy, Blantyre
Fotheringham, Kevin (28) ex Stirling Albion*, Oakley, Queen's Park
Greenlees, Steven (27) ex Stenny*, Albion Rovers*, Glenafton, Hurlford
McCallum, Owen (21) Not aware of any Junipr.Senior past - was with Campsie Minerva last season
McDevitt, Steven (32) ex Cumbernauld U and Vale of Clyde
McKay, Dave (32) ex Clyde
McLean, Darren (26) ex Morton*, Meadow, Kilbirnie, Peasy, Blantyre, Pollok (plus played a competitive trial for Ayr vs East Fife in 2010-11)
Marshall, Kenny (26) ex Shettleston & Yoker
Miller, Darren (20) ex Albion Rovers, Meadow, Queens Park, Dumbarton*, Kilbirnie, Clyde
Miller, James (26) ex Stenhousemuir*, Carluke, Blantyre
Mulvay, James (33) don't think he's been Junior / senior
Pearce, Lance (25) ex Partick* and Dalry
Thompson, Lee (30) ex Albion Rovers, Troon, Bellshill and Larkhall -with Kilbirnie last season too?
Tierney, Garry (31) ex Hearts, Airdrie, Forfar
Ward, Ryan (32) ex Kilbirnie, Dalry and Pollok

* = never played 1st team at Senior level

 

Quite an old team. I'm surprised at that. 

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, spud4 said:

There is no doubt there is some better players in the amateur game than in the the juniors and vice versa. For me I think the standard at juniors is better than most amateur levels. Personal opinion only. We could have a better insight into the argument when the Scottish cup games come up as I believe Colville park are in it this year so will be interesting to see how far they can go. As for amateur teams beating junior teams in friendlies I would take that with a pinch of salt as they are just training exercises in most cases.

Quoting friendly results between teams in different grades as a measure of their relative strengths is always faulty logic - the side from the higher grade invariably takes it less seriously. Much like when a junior team plays an SPFL outfit...it's only rarely you'd be playing their actual starting XI, much more likely a mix of fringe players, guys coming back from injury and triailsts experimenting with formations and so on. Just how much of a "scalp" the lower grade side can claim to have taken should they win is open to debate. I remember word going round some years ago to avoid taking friendlies against some amateur team - forget who - who were always on here asking for games against Junior opposition. When they got one, they apparently invariably treated the game like a cross between the Champions League final and the outbreak of World War 3

Quite what it proved when they won I don't know - a good few years ago when we were in the top division my team played either six or seven friendlies over the course of a season against SPFL opposition and went unbeaten - I don't recall anybody at the club claiming we were ready for the SPFL!

In a competitive situation you'd expect the Juniors to come through more often than not, just like you'd expect an SPFL team to win more often than not against Junior opposition.

Unfortunately, the big Scottish is the only arena Juniors - normally Girvan! - and top amateur sides can meet competitively, so there's a limited amount of data to go on, and AFAIK the score on the door as it stands sits at Juniors 2 Amateurs 0.

[cmontheloknow]

50 minutes ago, Viewparker said:

Quite an old team. I'm surprised at that. 

Yeah I noticed that too - I think it shows that they've 'been there, done that' when it comes to Junior football etc...

[Viewparker]

12 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Yeah I noticed that too - I think it shows that they've 'been there, done that' when it comes to Junior football etc...

Perhaps it shows they don't have the legs for junior football. 

[LT1878]

Quoting friendly results between teams in different grades as a measure of their relative strengths is always faulty logic - the side from the higher grade invariably takes it less seriously. Much like when a junior team plays an SPFL outfit...it's only rarely you'd be playing their actual starting XI, much more likely a mix of fringe players, guys coming back from injury and triailsts experimenting with formations and so on. Just how much of a "scalp" the lower grade side can claim to have taken should they win is open to debate. I remember word going round some years ago to avoid taking friendlies against some amateur team - forget who - who were always on here asking for games against Junior opposition. When they got one, they apparently invariably treated the game like a cross between the Champions League final and the outbreak of World War 3
Quite what it proved when they won I don't know - a good few years ago when we were in the top division my team played either six or seven friendlies over the course of a season against SPFL opposition and went unbeaten - I don't recall anybody at the club claiming we were ready for the SPFL!
In a competitive situation you'd expect the Juniors to come through more often than not, just like you'd expect an SPFL team to win more often than not against Junior opposition.
Unfortunately, the big Scottish is the only arena Juniors - normally Girvan! - and top amateur sides can meet competitively, so there's a limited amount of data to go on, and AFAIK the score on the door as it stands sits at Juniors 2 Amateurs 0.

I think the amateur team in question might have been wellhouse.

[Hillonearth]

3 minutes ago, LT1878 said:

 

I think the amateur team in question might have been wellhouse.

Couldn't remember the name, but that rings a bell.

Whoever they were, they had played a couple of friendlies that ended up in mini-riots and the teams they had played passed round the word not to touch them with a bargepole.

[Michael Kennedy]

I don't want to get dragged into the conversation regarding how well Colville would compete at Junior, because we will never know.

What I will say is my players are as committed to football as any junior player in this country. 

With regards to the Girvan game last season, and I mean this with no dis respect but the result did not reflect the game. We should have won the game with the amount of possession and opportunities we created. But goals win games and we went out. 

 

[rednblack]

You have an older team in the main and players who have been decent in the juniors in there day even one or two who were good but no chance would you over twenty odd game season compete for the title in the top two leagues, I think you know that.

 

The point about girvan is they were a tough nut to crack for you and took there chance when it came that's what a decent junior team will do.

 

Having a stab in the dark would say they are around 20-25 if you were to draw up a list of the best junior teams last season in the country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Kennedy]

As I said I don't want to get dragged in to the conversation about wether we would or wouldn't. 

You can't look at our squad in isolation because if we played junior the squad could be potentially different for a number of reasons. 

We are an amatuer club and we are happy to be were we are. 

What I will say we are aswell run as any junior club in the country, with regards to how we run the club. 

 

[spud4]

No team I've been involved with have played a meaningless friendly

 

By meaningless I mean in terms of result. No friendly have I ever taken part in has any gaffer told me the result mattered. You get out a friendly what you wish wether that be minutes for guys not playing, coming back from injury or trying experimental things but in terms of the result which is the main factor in a competitive game then yes it is meaningless.

[spud4]

Quoting friendly results between teams in different grades as a measure of their relative strengths is always faulty logic - the side from the higher grade invariably takes it less seriously. Much like when a junior team plays an SPFL outfit...it's only rarely you'd be playing their actual starting XI, much more likely a mix of fringe players, guys coming back from injury and triailsts experimenting with formations and so on. Just how much of a "scalp" the lower grade side can claim to have taken should they win is open to debate. I remember word going round some years ago to avoid taking friendlies against some amateur team - forget who - who were always on here asking for games against Junior opposition. When they got one, they apparently invariably treated the game like a cross between the Champions League final and the outbreak of World War 3

Quite what it proved when they won I don't know - a good few years ago when we were in the top division my team played either six or seven friendlies over the course of a season against SPFL opposition and went unbeaten - I don't recall anybody at the club claiming we were ready for the SPFL!

In a competitive situation you'd expect the Juniors to come through more often than not, just like you'd expect an SPFL team to win more often than not against Junior opposition.

Unfortunately, the big Scottish is the only arena Juniors - normally Girvan! - and top amateur sides can meet competitively, so there's a limited amount of data to go on, and AFAIK the score on the door as it stands sits at Juniors 2 Amateurs 0.

 

Couldn't agree more with you mate. I am not belittling the amateurs in anyway either, just like the juniors some are considerably better than others but like you say some teams take it as if there's something to win out the game when in fact it is merely a training exercise for most.

[Viewparker]

46 minutes ago, Michael Kennedy said:

As I said I don't want to get dragged in to the conversation about wether we would or wouldn't. 

You can't look at our squad in isolation because if we played junior the squad could be potentially different for a number of reasons. 

We are an amatuer club and we are happy to be were we are. 

What I will say we are aswell run as any junior club in the country, with regards to how we run the club. 

 

I wish you all the best in the upcoming Scottish Cup match. 

I watched Oban Saints in a game early last season and I must admit I was highly impressed by their organisation , however, I do agree with an earlier poster that most junior teams would beat the best of the ammies nine times out of ten.