GordonS

My daft laddie Junior football questions

183 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, non_sequitur said:

How did Burntisland Shipyard get their name?

Could it have been something to do with a local boat building company perhaps?

Fairfield (Govan) were the first ever winners of the Scottish Junior cup in 1887, pretty sure they must have something to do with the Fairfield Shipyard.

Edited by garrellburn
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53 minutes ago, garrellburn said:

Could it have been something to do with a local boat building company perhaps?

Fairfield (Govan) were the first ever winners of the Scottish Junior cup in 1887, pretty sure they must have something to do with the Fairfield Shipyard.

And of course Burntisland Shipyards 1st season 1919/20 they had a team playing in the juniors.

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Did Loanhead Mayflower have anything to do with the pub of the same name or vice versa?

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54 minutes ago, Franky Frankopolous said:

Did Loanhead Mayflower have anything to do with the pub of the same name or vice versa?

Nah. That pub's fairly new isn't it? It was always the County Bar and I'm over 60. I don't live there now but wasn't it a Chinese in recent times?

I think the Mayflower was just another team name like Thistle, Bluebell etc.

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15 hours ago, Viewparker said:

Where did the name Waverley come from for the teams from Bridgeton and Dennistoun. 

Is it anything to do with the Scott novels? 

The great man’s work also gave Junior football several other Waverleys, Ivanhoes, Rob Roys and, in the Senior game, Heart of Midlothian. However, some are only indirectly named after Sir Walter Scott’s novels. The Kirkintilloch Rob Roy website says the club took its name from a defunct curling club. Hearts took their name from a dancing club that some of the founders belonged to. When looking at the Junior clubs that have the name “Victoria” and “Albert” it was difficult to find one named directly after the Queen or Prince Consort although this was undoubtedly the indirect source of the club names. For example, I was told Brechin Victoria took their name from a local bar. So some clubs may have taken their name from a local park or bar named after the novels. 

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On 20 June 2017 at 07:11, bluedragon said:

The great man’s work also gave Junior football several other Waverleys, Ivanhoes, Rob Roys and, in the Senior game, Heart of Midlothian. However, some are only indirectly named after Sir Walter Scott’s novels. The Kirkintilloch Rob Roy website says the club took its name from a defunct curling club. Hearts took their name from a dancing club that some of the founders belonged to. When looking at the Junior clubs that have the name “Victoria” and “Albert” it was difficult to find one named directly after the Queen or Prince Consort although this was undoubtedly the indirect source of the club names. For example, I was told Brechin Victoria took their name from a local bar. So some clubs may have taken their name from a local park or bar named after the novels. 

Interesting reply, bluedragon.

Would be curious to know if there was a Waverley connection in Bridgeton itself. Something that's disappeared into the mists of time like a work, pub or even a street corner. Certainly wasn't the first team with the name Waverley in Glasgow.

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48 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Interesting reply, bluedragon.

Would be curious to know if there was a Waverley connection in Bridgeton itself. Something that's disappeared into the mists of time like a work, pub or even a street corner. Certainly wasn't the first team with the name Waverley in Glasgow.

Strange that there were two Waverley's within a couple of miles of one another, Dennistoun and Bridgeton, could one have been a breakaway from the other?

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4 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Interesting reply, bluedragon.

Would be curious to know if there was a Waverley connection in Bridgeton itself. Something that's disappeared into the mists of time like a work, pub or even a street corner. Certainly wasn't the first team with the name Waverley in Glasgow.

Bridgeton Waverley was formed by former pupils of Queen Mary Street Public School but was disbanded during the First World War. After the War it re-formed and won the Scottish Juvenile Cup in three successive seasons (1921/22, 1922/23 & 1923/24) and moved into the Juniors in 1924. The school is actually on Bernard Terrace off Queen Mary Street and is just off (and on the south side of) London Road. Waverley Terrace appears to a name given to part of Whitevale Street that runs north off the Gallowgate. Perhaps with local knowledge you can tell if boys living there would have attended that school or is it too far away? On the other hand their teacher may have made an impact on his/her young charges with the author’s great work!

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3 hours ago, garrellburn said:

Strange that there were two Waverley's within a couple of miles of one another, Dennistoun and Bridgeton, could one have been a breakaway from the other?

Waverley was the most popular of the Walter Scott names for football clubs. However, in a time when clubs gave themselves names to distinguish themselves from other teams there must be some connection given that Dennistoun would know that they would play against their namesakes in the Central League.

Dennistoun Waverley appear to have been formed as a Junior team in 1939 and so we can discount the idea that a Juvenile team gave themselves the name after the Bridgeton club and just kept it when they moved up to the Juniors. “Waverley” was also the pen name of the main football journalist at the Daily Record throughout the existence of both clubs. So maybe there is a link there?

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4 hours ago, garrellburn said:

Strange that there were two Waverley's within a couple of miles of one another, Dennistoun and Bridgeton, could one have been a breakaway from the other?

In previewing a Dennistoun Waverley v Bo’ness United Junior Cup tie on 7 February 1947 the Bo'ness Journal, and Linlithgow Advertiser said:

“The Dennistoun was originally a breakaway from the famous Bridgeton Waverley.”

Dennistoun Waverley initially played in the Scottish Junior League. Their first attempt to join the Central League in 1939 was “not entertained” at the Central League AGM. Their application came forward again this time at the SJFA AGM in 1940 and the Glasgow JFA delegates were told to leave the room while it was discussed. This caused a stooshie. They were eventually admitted in 1941. On the face of it the breakaway may not have been amicable.

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If I was alive in 1934 I'd be able to tell you why we're called Lochore Welfare even though we play in Crosshill

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7 hours ago, bluedragon said:

In previewing a Dennistoun Waverley v Bo’ness United Junior Cup tie on 7 February 1947 the Bo'ness Journal, and Linlithgow Advertiser said:

“The Dennistoun was originally a breakaway from the famous Bridgeton Waverley.”

Dennistoun Waverley initially played in the Scottish Junior League. Their first attempt to join the Central League in 1939 was “not entertained” at the Central League AGM. Their application came forward again this time at the SJFA AGM in 1940 and the Glasgow JFA delegates were told to leave the room while it was discussed. This caused a stooshie. They were eventually admitted in 1941. On the face of it the breakaway may not have been amicable.

Didn't know Mr Robertson was involved as far back as that. He is 'never entertained' by anything raised at the meetings in my experience.

Edited by garrellburn
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On ‎19‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 10:30, bluedragon said:

I still cannot find where I heard about the origins of Shotts Bon Accord's name. However, I believe the club was a Juvenile club after the Second World War before moving up to the Juniors in 1950. Hannah Park lies virtually at the end of the long street named Bon Accord Crescent. It sounds as if the club may have taken its name from the street that pre-dated the football club. Perhaps the street has the mining origins? 

I attempted to research this some time ago but was thwarted after being told by the Mitchell Library that the records for the building of Bon Accord Crescent were in the Motherwell Heritage Centre who then maintained, 'No, they were transferred to the Mitchell some time ago.' Impasse, stymie, dead-end, checkmate.

I had been looking to find out why Bon Accord had been chosen as the name and it soon became clear that the crescent begat the football club which was founded in 1944 (they never played anything other than as Juniors though) although fundraising took six long years before the club was ready to start playing.

An elderly aunt of mine remembered moving to 70 Bon Accord Crescent (as a newbuild) in the early thirties but the buildings closest to Hannah Park were actually constructed in the early part of the century. The earliest mention I found was of a Lithuanian miner seeking British nationality in about 1906. His address was given as 4 Bon Accord Crescent.

I have also read various historical accounts of pits in the Shotts area and have never come across anything that would suggest the street is named after a mine.

As I head for my seventies, I suspect I'll never find the real answer but I'm beginning to assume there must be an Aberdeen connection - maybe an Aberdonian businessman who relocated to Shotts in the late 19th century and took on a role in local politics? Fanciful perhaps but I have time on my hands these days.

 

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What's being debated is the add ons rather than the geographical location. Glasgow Perthshire is easily answered by being an offshoot of the Glasgow Perthshire Society. It wouldn't take much to figure out Kirkintilloch Rob Roy or Campsie Black Watch. Doubt we'll ever know why Waverley was added on to Bridgeton.

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46 minutes ago, Sandgrownun said:

I attempted to research this some time ago but was thwarted after being told by the Mitchell Library that the records for the building of Bon Accord Crescent were in the Motherwell Heritage Centre who then maintained, 'No, they were transferred to the Mitchell some time ago.' Impasse, stymie, dead-end, checkmate.

I had been looking to find out why Bon Accord had been chosen as the name and it soon became clear that the crescent begat the football club which was founded in 1944 (they never played anything other than as Juniors though) although fundraising took six long years before the club was ready to start playing.

An elderly aunt of mine remembered moving to 70 Bon Accord Crescent (as a newbuild) in the early thirties but the buildings closest to Hannah Park were actually constructed in the early part of the century. The earliest mention I found was of a Lithuanian miner seeking British nationality in about 1906. His address was given as 4 Bon Accord Crescent.

I have also read various historical accounts of pits in the Shotts area and have never come across anything that would suggest the street is named after a mine.

As I head for my seventies, I suspect I'll never find the real answer but I'm beginning to assume there must be an Aberdeen connection - maybe an Aberdonian businessman who relocated to Shotts in the late 19th century and took on a role in local politics? Fanciful perhaps but I have time on my hands these days.

 

Thanks for that and explaining the long period from formation of the club to playing. I see on a map that Dee Street is a continuation of Bon Accord Crescent and so that supports the Aberdonian connection idea. The only Bon Accord mine I found was in Australia!

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52 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

What's being debated is the add ons rather than the geographical location. Glasgow Perthshire is easily answered by being an offshoot of the Glasgow Perthshire Society. It wouldn't take much to figure out Kirkintilloch Rob Roy or Campsie Black Watch. Doubt we'll ever know why Waverley was added on to Bridgeton.

I think what I have learnt is that team suffixes are not as obvious as they seem at first sight. So Kirkintilloch Rob Roy were named after a defunct curling club and the Juvenile club Campsie Black Watch took their name from a Junior club of the same name that played between 1891 and 1898 about 50 years before the Juvenile club. was formed. Undoubtedly the source of the names are Sir Walter Scott’s hero and the Army Regiment respectively but it is not a direct link.

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4 minutes ago, bluedragon said:

I think what I have learnt is that team suffixes are not as obvious as they seem at first sight. So Kirkintilloch Rob Roy were named after a defunct curling club and the Juvenile club Campsie Black Watch took their name from a Junior club of the same name that played between 1891 and 1898 about 50 years before the Juvenile club. was formed. Undoubtedly the source of the names are Sir Walter Scott’s hero and the Army Regiment respectively but it is not a direct link.

I'm still trying to find out the English rugby club that gave it's monicker to a Senior club from Govan.

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20 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

I'm still trying to find out the English rugby club that gave it's monicker to a Senior club from Govan.

Cheltenham Sevco?

I'm sure I once read somewhere the team they actually got their name from was Swindon Rangers FC - back then the distinction between rugby and football was a bit blurred, hence the likes of West of Scotland FC and Hull FC dating from around that time who actually play rugby.

 

Edited by Hillonearth
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