bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Lokloyal said: And tying in to the decline of Cities as junior football areas when the small rural villages of Fife and Ayrshire then started to come to the fore. It is a "rough & ready" measure but if you look at the location of the two teams who contested the Junior Cup Final up until the start of the Second World War (1939/40 season) then just under half were Glasgow clubs (44%). After that the percentage rapidly reduces and is currently 14% broken down as follows: 1940’s 33% 1950’s 15% 1960’s 5% 1970’s 15% 1980’s 30% 1990’s 10% 2000’s 0% 2010’s 7% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 13 hours ago, garrellburn said: Ashfield (of course), Shawfield, Strathclyde, Maryhill Harp, possibly St Anthony & Glencairn were all either ash or hard packed earth with no more than a grass fringe round the edges. I'm going back almost sixty years so memory might be a little bit unreliable. I would be very interested to hear re-collections about these pitches. Were they just in Glasgow or were they elsewhere? I know Bathgate Park in Edinburgh, home to Edinburgh Emmet, was this type of pitch but it was only played on until August 1926. In 1955 Norwegian amateur side Årstad Idrettslag undertook a four-match tour of Scotland hosted by Dalkeith Thistle. Their first game was against Central League champions Ashfield on black ash at Saracen Park on 3 August 1955. I wonder what they made of that? It did not put their goalkeeper off as the 'papers said the visitors had a "first class goalkeeper in Larssen who plays in the continental style" so I assume he was making acrobatic saves in their 1:4 defeat. The limited newspaper reports suggest that the surface may have come as a surprise as it was reported that they were delighted when Irvine Meadow XI officials watching the match re-assured them that their game in Ayrshire would be played on grass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, bluedragon said: I would be very interested to hear re-collections about these pitches. Were they just in Glasgow or were they elsewhere? I know Bathgate Park in Edinburgh, home to Edinburgh Emmet, was this type of pitch but it was only played on until August 1926. In 1955 Norwegian amateur side Årstad Idrettslag undertook a four-match tour of Scotland hosted by Dalkeith Thistle. Their first game was against Central League champions Ashfield on black ash at Saracen Park on 3 August 1955. I wonder what they made of that? It did not put their goalkeeper off as the 'papers said the visitors had a "first class goalkeeper in Larssen who plays in the continental style" so I assume he was making acrobatic saves in their 1:4 defeat. The limited newspaper reports suggest that the surface may have come as a surprise as it was reported that they were delighted when Irvine Meadow XI officials watching the match re-assured them that their game in Ayrshire would be played on grass! All of the ones mentioned were within Glasgow City boundary, with the exception of Baillieston, just outside. Strathclyde I believe had a bit of a nomadic existance in their final days, in the East end, just off London Road. Parkhead (Helenvale) had a huge pitch quite close to Celtic Park, it was used by Celtic as their training ground up until they moved to Lennoxtown. Shawfield was quite close to Shawfield stadium in the middle of tenement housing, the area now totally redeveloped. Maryhilll Harp were in Kelvindale, close to a large papermill? on the banks of the River Kelvin. All of them were pretty basic grounds with little or no covered terracing as I remember them. One I do have very fond memories of was Carronbank, home of Dunipace, very tight little ground with a small covered enclosure, always jampacked with Kilsyth supporters when we went through to give them their annual thrashing. In fact they went over twelve years during the 50's and early sixties without a victory despite meeting several times a year in the league games and in the various County cups of which there were several at the time. Happy days indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 14 hours ago, garrellburn said: Does anyone remember Carfin Emeralds, not a junior side, but a very interesting history? I had not heard of this but I have now found out about it. You could not make that up! Many Celtic players (in disguise!) make up the “Carfin Emeralds” team to play in a Summer football tournament in Ireland in 1964. The tournament is played in front of large crowds and for prize money. The enterprising Priest from Carfin organises the “Carfin Emeralds” who win the tournament and the winnings swell Parish funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, bluedragon said: I had not heard of this but I have now found out about it. You could not make that up! Many Celtic players (in disguise!) make up the “Carfin Emeralds” team to play in a Summer football tournament in Ireland in 1964. The tournament is played in front of large crowds and for prize money. The enterprising Priest from Carfin organises the “Carfin Emeralds” who win the tournament and the winnings swell Parish funds. It incuded some Celtic players including Jimmy Johnstone in the team, but there were also some juniors including three from Kilsyth, two of them played in the Scottish Junior cup winning team of 1967. One now sadly deceased, but the other still with us and who has put his memories of it in a privately published document. The tournament was the Kennedy cup, sponsored by Harp Lager, and with a prize fund of £1000. It was actually played twice, in 1964 & 65 although Jimmy Johnstone only played in the first one, I suspect he had been rumbled and told in no uncertain terms by Jock Stein not to repeat the experience. The priest from Carfin was Father Gillen, his brother owned the hotel in Moville, near Derry, where the games were played and he was probably the main beneficiary taking a fortune in the bar after the games! There was also a Welshman in the team, known only as Taffy, so he was probably keen to keep his identity a secret as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, garrellburn said: It incuded some Celtic players including Jimmy Johnstone in the team, but there were also some juniors including three from Kilsyth, two of them played in the Scottish Junior cup winning team of 1967. One now sadly deceased, but the other still with us and who has put his memories of it in a privately published document. The tournament was the Kennedy cup, sponsored by Harp Lager, and with a prize fund of £1000. It was actually played twice, in 1964 & 65 although Jimmy Johnstone only played in the first one, I suspect he had been rumbled and told in no uncertain terms by Jock Stein not to repeat the experience. The priest from Carfin was Father Gillen, his brother owned the hotel in Moville, near Derry, where the games were played and he was probably the main beneficiary taking a fortune in the bar after the games! There was also a Welshman in the team, known only as Taffy, so he was probably keen to keep his identity a secret as well. One of the articles I read says that Neilly Mochan played in the team and had just returned to Celtic as a coach. “Off topic” but you will be interested to hear that his brother and ex-Kilsyth Rangers man Denis Mochan made a deep and lasting impression on a friend who is a life-long Colchester United supporter. He says he has never seen a faster trainer off the bench and on to the pitch than Denis when he was trainer at Layer Road. He was not just quick but was really fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I thought Celtic used the old Bridgeton Waverley ground (Barrowfield) rather than Parkhead Juniors for training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 hours ago, bluedragon said: I would be very interested to hear re-collections about these pitches. Were they just in Glasgow or were they elsewhere? I know Bathgate Park in Edinburgh, home to Edinburgh Emmet, was this type of pitch but it was only played on until August 1926. In 1955 Norwegian amateur side Årstad Idrettslag undertook a four-match tour of Scotland hosted by Dalkeith Thistle. Their first game was against Central League champions Ashfield on black ash at Saracen Park on 3 August 1955. I wonder what they made of that? It did not put their goalkeeper off as the 'papers said the visitors had a "first class goalkeeper in Larssen who plays in the continental style" so I assume he was making acrobatic saves in their 1:4 defeat. The limited newspaper reports suggest that the surface may have come as a surprise as it was reported that they were delighted when Irvine Meadow XI officials watching the match re-assured them that their game in Ayrshire would be played on grass! Dalkeith Thistle had gone on a 4 game tour to Norway in 1954, I guess this was reciprocated the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Dalkeith Thistle had gone on a 4 game tour to Norway in 1954, I guess this was reciprocated the following year. Yes that’s right. Dalkeith Thistle were keen to reciprocate the hospitality they had enjoyed when they toured Norway in 1954. Here are the details of both tours. Dalkeith Thistle in Norway 1954 1 July 1954 (Bergen) - Årstad Idrettslag 0 Dalkeith Thistle 3 3 July 1954 (Voss) - Voss Sports Club 0 Dalkeith Thistle 4 5 July 1954 (Odda) - Odda Sports Club 2 Dalkeith Thistle 7 7 July 1954 (Haugesund) -Vard Sports Club 1 Dalkeith Thistle 3 9 July 1954 (Stavanger) -Stavanger Lodnettforthing 1 Dalkeith Thistle 1 Årstad Idrettslag in Scotland 1955 3 August 1955 (Saracen Park, Glasgow) Ashfield 4 Årstad Idrettslag 1 6 August 1955 (Davie Park, Blairgowrie) Blairgowrie 2 Årstad Idrettslag 1 8 August 1955 (Meadow Park, Irvine) Irvine Meadow XI 4 Årstad Idrettslag 1 9 August 1955 (King’s Park, Dalkeith) Dalkeith Thistle 5 Årstad Idrettslag 0 It was a tough itinerary for the amateurs against reigning Central & Western League champions, a Dalkeith side that was to go on and win the Edinburgh & District League in 1955/56 and a Blairgowrie team in the top 2 or 3 in the Perthshire League. Despite the results they put the experience to good use as Årstad Idrettslag went on win the Landsdelsserien in the 1955/56 season and qualify to play in the highest Norwegian league again, after a two-year absence, by winning their play-off match 2:0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I also believe that some of the pitches in Norway were ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: I also believe that some of the pitches in Norway were ash. Thank you for that clue. I have just gone back to look at the press cuttings and the report from the touring party to the local newspaper says: “Football match v Voss Sports Club on an ash pitch. Voss were a heavy, fast moving team on a fast pitch.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Lokloyal said: And tying in to the decline of Cities as junior football areas when the small rural villages of Fife and Ayrshire then started to come to the fore. EH? I think this is a bit of a misquote surely, as this statement seems to infer that only once the Cities were weakened by less representation did those outwith the city boundaries have any success. Check the records there is a 30+ year gap of an all Glasgow Scottish final 1942/43 KRR v the Bens until 1979/80 Baillieston v the Bens, so that would suggest that not only the rural towns and villages of Fife & Ayrshire but also those in Lanarkshire and the Lothians (Mid, East & West) were at already at the fore, particularly in our national competition. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Is it true half the clubs that played in a Scottish Junior Cup Final have since went bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason King Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 40 minutes ago, tombo said: Check the records there is a 30+ year gap of an all Glasgow Scottish final 1942/43 KRR v the Bens until 1979/80 Baillieston v the Bens, My dear old thing, Kirkintilloch is not Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason King Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 6 hours ago, bluedragon said: Maryhill Harp can also be added to that list and beyond the 1960's Bailleston. Here is my list: Shawfield (1960), Bridgeton Waverley (1962), Parkhead (1963), Strathclyde (1965), Dennistoun Waverley (1968), Maryhill Harp (1967) and Baillieston (2005). Harp were sunk when their ground was CPO'd by the council for housing. The high rise flats now occupy their old ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednblack Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 EH? I think this is a bit of a misquote surely, as this statement seems to infer that only once the Cities were weakened by less representation did those outwith the city boundaries have any success. Check the records there is a 30+ year gap of an all Glasgow Scottish final 1942/43 KRR v the Bens until 1979/80 Baillieston v the Bens, so that would suggest that not only the rural towns and villages of Fife & Ayrshire but also those in Lanarkshire and the Lothians (Mid, East & West) were at already at the fore, particularly in our national competition. T Wouldn't say Rob Roy are a Glasgow city club we are a big town a fair distance away from Glasgow. Excellent thread btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason King Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 31 minutes ago, Glenconner said: Is it true half the clubs that played in a Scottish Junior Cup Final have since went bust? Kelty (2007, 1999) are the last team to play in a final that are no more a Junior club, before that you have to go back to Ormiston ('89) and I think Ballieston ('84, '82. '80 (spit!) and '65) are the last club to play in a final who are no longer in the game at any senior/junior level and indeed they are the last team to win the final who are no more, I think Shawfield in '47 are the previous winners who are no more. You also have Stonehouse ('78) and before that Duntocher ('55) having made the final post war and being no more. Pre 1945 and you'll find loads of clubs such as Morton Juniors and Denny Hibs who are sadly no more. How vibrant and much more exciting the game may be in 2017 if some of those clubs had survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Glenconner said: I thought Celtic used the old Bridgeton Waverley ground (Barrowfield) rather than Parkhead Juniors for training Yes, I think your correct. terrible thing this old age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 6 hours ago, bluedragon said: One of the articles I read says that Neilly Mochan played in the team and had just returned to Celtic as a coach. “Off topic” but you will be interested to hear that his brother and ex-Kilsyth Rangers man Denis Mochan made a deep and lasting impression on a friend who is a life-long Colchester United supporter. He says he has never seen a faster trainer off the bench and on to the pitch than Denis when he was trainer at Layer Road. He was not just quick but was really fast! Denis was a very good footballer who got his Scottish cup medal and Junior caps when still only 19 years old. He played for Raith Rovers before moving on to Nottingham Forrest, and then Colchester where he had a spell as a coach before moving back to Scotland. He had another brother, John, who also played for us around 1957/8. A decent player but never played senior as far as I know. Denis is still a regular visitor to Duncansfield and a nicer man you will never meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedragon Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Glenconner said: Is it true half the clubs that played in a Scottish Junior Cup Final have since went bust? I reckon 98 different clubs have played in the Junior Cup Final of which 28 are no longer in business so that is 29%. There have been 130 Cup Finals of which 6 have been all-Glasgow affairs, 52 had one Glasgow club and the remaining 72 had no Glasgow team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.