Junior football, what is the future?

[Hillonearth]

While on the surface a West of Scotland league at Tier 6 is exactly what's needed, I'm deeply sceptical about the source it has emanated from - if it were driven by the SFA/SJFA fair enough, but it's not... BSC's long term aim - and I doubt they're bothered about collateral damage the achievement of this aim may cause - is to secure primary tenancy in a ground in Glasgow...they've got a pipedream of the city council gifting them the northwest chunk of Victoria Park to build a stadium which is unlikely at best.

They have however shot themselves in the foot with their past dealings with the Junior clubs who constitute virtually all the viable groundshares in the city,. They walked out on the Ashfield groundshare without kicking a ball, and did a moonlight flit to Alloa from Lochburn after it was made clear the merger they'd proposed between themselves and Maryhill wasn't going to happen, necessitating us to fight and win an SFA tribunal to get what we were owed.  If they're talking about trying to enter a Junior team,  is it possible it would be a stalking horse to groundshare at a Junior club for a couple of years to ease the first team into the ground when the Junior club inevitably folds?  Suffice to say if they're the prime movers behind this, it won't be for purely altruistic motives. 

 

[Kilbowie Benches]

They don’t have primacy of tenancy at Alloa! 

Neither do E.Stirling,Edusport or Stirling Uni?

[Hillonearth]

Just now, Kilbowie Benches said:

They don’t have primacy of tenancy at Alloa! 

Neither do E.Stirling,Edusport or Stirling Uni?

Where did I say they did? I said their long term aim was to secure one in Glasgow...

[FairWeatherFan]

If this all emanates from BSC trying to start up a Junior side, it leaves me wondering if BSC Reserves might be the first addition to any West of Scotland League started by them. Certainly seems possible if they have to pad the numbers to start.

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If this all emanates from BSC trying to start up a Junior side, it leaves me wondering if BSC Reserves might be the first addition to any West of Scotland League started by them. Certainly seems possible if they have to pad the numbers to start.

If EK and Cumbernauld Colts do the same, and you throw in Glasgow Uni and Bonnyton Thistle and a few colt teams, this could easily be launched with little or no junior involvement. When the Lowland League was formed junior clubs were contacted as a courtesy but there was no huge expectation that any of them would actually join as the EoS premier clubs (mainly Spartans) were setting the agenda and were pushing their own selfish self-interest rather than some grand vision of building a genuine pyramid. There have been media reports about the Old Firm colt teams joining the senior grade pyramid as soon as next season and this is probably the only way they are going to get their foot in the door, because the lower division SPFL clubs are not going to agree to having them parachuted into League Two.

Edited December 24, 2017 by LongTimeLurker

[Kilbowie Benches]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If EK and Cumbernauld Colts do the same, and you throw in Glasgow Uni and Bonnyton Thistle and a few colt teams, this could easily be launched with little or no junior involvement. When the Lowland League was formed junior clubs were contacted as a courtesy but there was no huge expectation that any of them would actually join as the EoS premier clubs (mainly Spartans) were setting the agenda and were pushing their own selfish self-interest rather than some grand vision of building a genuine pyramid. There have been media reports about the Old Firm colt teams joining the senior grade pyramid as soon as next season and this is probably the only way they are going to get their foot in the door, because the lower division SPFL clubs are not going to agree to having them parachuted into League Two.

Why would they circulate the West Region juniors if they didn’t want them?

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, Kilbowie Benches said:

Why would they circulate the West Region juniors if they didn’t want them?

West region clubs are affiliated SFA members even if they are not full SFA members, so if you are trying to launch a new league under the SFA you would normally be expected to notify all potentially interested parties as happened with the Lowland League. Beyond that it's more a case of them not actually needing lots of junior clubs to be involved to potentially be able to do this than not wanting them.

[Kilbowie Benches]

I believe the SFA are having a meeting about the pyramid next month which Tom Johnstone will be at.

Should be interesting!

[8MileBU]

Tom Johnstone and the sjfa shouldn’t be allowed out.

FTFY

[kabjo]

All this would take is a few of the larger clubs to follow Kelty hearts then the exodus would happen if we wait till the sjfa to move into a pyramid system it's like turkeys voting for Xmas.

[Goalie Hamish]

It does seem that BSC may have ulterior motives for this league to happen, revolving around securing a ground in Glasgow. However that shouldn't have any impact on how this is run and making a success of it. At the very least it gets clubs talking.

'Re a BSC Juniors, how can TJ turn them down, it's not his decision to make, and what difference would it be to the short lived Spartans Juniors?

[Hillonearth]

Just now, Goalie Hamish said:

It does seem that BSC may have ulterior motives for this league to happen, revolving around securing a ground in Glasgow. However that shouldn't have any impact on how this is run and making a success of it. At the very least it gets clubs talking.

'Re a BSC Juniors, how can TJ turn them down, it's not his decision to make, and what difference would it be to the short lived Spartans Juniors?

Ultimately it's not in his gift - any application would have to be voted in at the AGM. 

Having said that, I'm not sure what this application would bring to the table...I can see the logic of a Gartcairn or Rossvale being admitted- they both had plans in place for home grounds although it took the latter longer than anticipated to come to fruition, and while it hasn't happened to any great extent yet they both have potential fanbases.

They're both viable entities.

In this case there's neither - no home ground in sight, and given the nunbers pulled by the first team playing in either Glasgow or Alloa, one can only imagine what a second string would attract in terms of crowds.

 

[KarlMarx]

5 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Ultimately it's not in his gift - any application would have to be voted in at the AGM. 

Having said that, I'm not sure what this application would bring to the table...I can see the logic of a Gartcairn or Rossvale being admitted- they both had plans in place for home grounds although it took the latter longer than anticipated to come to fruition, and while it hasn't happened to any great extent yet they both have potential fanbases.

They're both viable entities.

In this case there's neither - no home ground in sight, and given the nunbers pulled by the first team playing in either Glasgow or Alloa, one can only imagine what a second string would attract in terms of crowds.

 

From what I seen last season BSC would bring nothing to the table if their fanbase is anything to go by.

[Patches O'Houlihan]

2 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

While on the surface a West of Scotland league at Tier 6 is exactly what's needed, I'm deeply sceptical about the source it has emanated from - if it were driven by the SFA/SJFA fair enough, but it's not... BSC's long term aim - and I doubt they're bothered about collateral damage the achievement of this aim may cause - is to secure primary tenancy in a ground in Glasgow...they've got a pipedream of the city council gifting them the northwest chunk of Victoria Park to build a stadium which is unlikely at best.

They have however shot themselves in the foot with their past dealings with the Junior clubs who constitute virtually all the viable groundshares in the city,. They walked out on the Ashfield groundshare without kicking a ball, and did a moonlight flit to Alloa from Lochburn after it was made clear the merger they'd proposed between themselves and Maryhill wasn't going to happen, necessitating us to fight and win an SFA tribunal to get what we were owed.  If they're talking about trying to enter a Junior team,  is it possible it would be a stalking horse to groundshare at a Junior club for a couple of years to ease the first team into the ground when the Junior club inevitably folds?  Suffice to say if they're the prime movers behind this, it won't be for purely altruistic motives. 

 

I’ve read and digested your continued fixation with BSC and our time at Ashfield and Lochburn with interest, and have resisted the temptation to respond in any great detail. However, suffice to say there is always two sides to every story, and there are and were  several issues on the other side of the story, that if made public could have damaging consequences for the parties involved. You will note BSC have never commented on these matters publicly, and that will remain.

With regards to the current topic, your assertion that BSC are using this as some sort of Trojan horse is somewhat wide of  the mark, however as it suits your agenda and allows you another angle of attack then crack on.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Patches O'Houlihan

[FairWeatherFan]

21 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Ultimately it's not in his gift - any application would have to be voted in at the AGM. 

Having said that, I'm not sure what this application would bring to the table...I can see the logic of a Gartcairn or Rossvale being admitted- they both had plans in place for home grounds although it took the latter longer than anticipated to come to fruition, and while it hasn't happened to any great extent yet they both have potential fanbases.

They're both viable entities.

In this case there's neither - no home ground in sight, and given the nunbers pulled by the first team playing in either Glasgow or Alloa, one can only imagine what a second string would attract in terms of crowds.

 

With the precedent of Spartans running a Junior side in recent memory, only the ground issue could be seen as a real reason to reject an application out of hand.

[Hillonearth]

5 minutes ago, Patches O'Houlihan said:

I’ve read and digested your continued fixation with BSC and our time at Ashfield and Lochburn with interest, and have resisted the temptation to respond in any great detail. However, suffice to say there is always two sides to every story, and there are and were  several issues on the other side of the story, that if made public could have damaging consequences for the parties involved. You will note BSC have never commented on these matters publicly, and that will remain.

With regards to the current topic, your assertion that BSC are using this as some sort of Trojan horse is somewhat wide if the mark, however as it suits your agenda and allows you another angle of attack then crack on.

I did comment on the BSC LL thread once previously and commented as above - if that constitutes a "continued fixation" in your eyes then so be it.

 

 

 

[Patches O'Houlihan]

Just now, Hillonearth said:

I did comment on the BSC LL thread once previously and commented as above - if that constitutes a "continued fixation" in your eyes then so be it.

 

 

 

It’s been more than once over the forums, however I am not going to argue over it. 

 

[Goalie Hamish]

With regards to the current topic, your assertion that BSC are using this as some sort of Trojan horse is somewhat wide of  the mark, however as it suits your agenda and allows you another angle of attack then crack on.

For those of us not interested in the squabble, what are BSC's motives for pushing a West of Scotland League?

[Patches O'Houlihan]

Just now, Goalie Hamish said:

 

For those of us not interested in the squabble, what are BSC's motives for pushing a West of Scotland League?

 

BSC would like to have a range of teams across all levels of football, meaning a place for everyone to play dependant on their level. It has always seemed to us that the next logical step in the Pyramid was a West League.  West teams who want a shot at the pyramid have to travel to Dumfries etc every second week? It doesn’t make financial sense. I am also sure the well run teams in the current SOS league would welcome not having to travel up to Glasgow etc.

[KarlMarx]

1 minute ago, Patches O'Houlihan said:

BSC would like to have a range of teams across all levels of football, meaning a place for everyone to play dependant on their level. It has always seemed to us that the next logical step in the Pyramid was a West League.  West teams who want a shot at the pyramid have to travel to Dumfries etc every second week? It doesn’t make financial sense. I am also sure the well run teams in the current SOS league would welcome not having to travel up to Glasgow etc.

Where you going to get the supporters from?

You didn't seem to have many for ypur first team when we played you.

Any I spoke to had relatives in the team and would go elsewhere if their relatives moved on.