Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

On 20/11/2017 at 17:26, AlanCamelonfan said:

There's been little to suggest they will. I can't see them going with out the Rose.

Great news about Bo'Ness. Will they be alone in doing so, or will other junior clubs follow next year ?

However, we still need an integrated structure & pyramid though, so here is my proposal :

level 1 :  SPFL Premier  12 clubs as now (TV contract dictating this !)

level 2 : SPFL Championship revamped with 16 clubs  (playing each other twice, not four times per season)

level 3 : SPFL National Division revamped with 16 clubs (playing each other twice) formed from 4 Div 1 clubs, 10 Div 2 clubs, 1 each from HFL & SLL champions. Thereafter bottom SPFL club automatically relegated to either HFL or SLL as appropriate. For one season only the HFL would be permitted to retain its 17th club, with HFL relegation in year two

level 4 : HFL & SLL each with 16 clubs. Winning club from the HFL & SLL play-off will be automatically promoted to SPFL each season without a promotion/relegation play-off being required (as above). The bottom club in the HFL & SLL to be relegated each season, but only if 2 of the champion clubs from level 5 are licensed. If not, one or both would be reprieved.    If only one or none of the four level 5 league champions  are licensed, one or both bottom  HFL or SLL clubs would be reprieved from relegation  (a relegation playoff may be needed if only one of the four clubs qualifies for promotion)

level 5 : SFA to designate 4 leagues as feeders to the pyramid : ie  from each of the 3 Junior Super Leagues & the EoSL . The champion club of each of these 4 leagues, to participate in  TWO promotion play-offs (ties drawn by a lot), but they can ONLY participate if Licensed. Clubs in these leagues would be encouraged to be licensed, but it shouldn't be compulsory. The winning club from each playoff to be promoted. Any club not wanting promotion to level 4, can therefore remain at level 5. Relegation from level 5 to level 6, to be determined by each league independently, with ONE PROVISO, promotion is not compulsory, and an SFA licence is not required for promotion below level 4

level 6  : comprised of the next level of the 3 Junior leagues, plus the SoSL and the NCL, with promotion to level 5 and relegation to level 7 being determined by each league independently . Again promotion is not compulsory, nor is an SFA licence 

level 7 : all remaining Junior leagues, ideally realigned as local leagues to avoid travelling costs, etc, where appropriate.

level 8 : Amateur leagues (eg Border, Central, Kingdom of Fife, Lothian & Edinburgh, Midlands, Stirling, etc) would be offered the opportunity to join the pyramid, if they wished to do so, or alternatively to remain outside the above framework. The Scottish Amateur Cup would be retained

KEY DECISIONS NEEDED TO MAKE IT HAPPEN

* the Junior FA, and the other individual leagues & associations, both junior and 'senior' would be left intact, albeit as part of an integrated structure (hence minimum disruption)

* reducing the number of SPFL tiers from 4 to 3 (albeit with 2 extra clubs as above) is an incentive for progression within the pyramid. It also avoids the need to play each other 4 times per season and reduces the number of (unpopular/expensive) midweek games at levels 2 and 3  

* the EoSL, SoSL and the NCL would be eligible to enter the Scottish Junior Cup, which would otherwise remain as it is currently 

* SFA financial support for progressive clubs at level 5 should be revised/extended to current junior clubs, if they become SFA member clubs (joint SJFA/SFA membership would be acceptable, eg Girvan, Banks O'Dee) 

* The SFA would need to consult upon the details of the above, albeit making it clear that it will enforce the 'integrated' pyramid if necessary. 

Surely a "win-win" for everyone - especially the fans !! Implementation could be achieved for 2019/20 season.

   

 

[Unknown Fan]

On 11/22/2017 at 09:39, archieb said:

Unrealistic pie-in-the-sky fantasy stuff.

Incredible that so much time and effort is wasted by folk coming up with over-radical schemes like this.

Well cheers mate, not so radical would be getting similar standard teams to play against each other than have a one in one out of the SPFL that it is at the moment.  The top half of the Lowland Highland and Superleague League East and West would be of a similar standard and then similar standard to the current league 2 and bottom of League 1.   As clearly pointed in the Senior Scottish last weekend.    Lothian Thistle and Glenafton will have played as many games in the Scottish Cup this season as the the eventual finalists.   

[Unknown Fan]

On 11/22/2017 at 09:42, edinabear said:

Good effort. I like it in terms of the fact that it brings everything together. That said, I really don't see the need for all the splits. It could just be a simple 2 up 2 down in every league.

Also would any League 1/League 2 sides rather go regional? If they are happy travelling the length of the country then that should remain

The splits are due to the 14 team leagues and for there not to be more than 38 league games in the season and no less than 36 for the top clubs as that is what they like and there is little room for manoeuvre.

Well with the National third tier the number of clubs playing at national level increases from 42 to 44 in the second half of the season.  With 4 from League 1 and the 10 from League 2.  Would also leave it only one promotion away for any Junior team accessing the pyramid structure.  Though with a more regionalised feel.  Team plays in the 16 team lowland or highland first half of the season in 15 games home away 8/7 split that could be balanced out with the teams that play 7 home games have 2 home games instead of 1 in the 4 team 3 game league cup group stages at the start of the season.

They would play 4 away and 4 home against the 8 from the other section in the second half of the season making a total of 30 games before playoffs.

The best part about this would be each team would then have played 2 games against 7 clubs twice and 1 game against 16 clubs in one league season 23 clubs in total over 30 games.  Compared to 9 in the SPFL at the moment.  You couldn't call that boring and only 4 away days against teams teams in the Highlands or Lowlands.  Would generate more local derbies, add novelty away days and could should increase support and interest.  The mid of the table is always the most competitive so leading up to the first half of the season split more games with something to play for from the start of the season.  

Would also leave it only one promotion away for any Junior team accessing the pyramid structure and more in line as a progression from the way the Junior set up works out at the moment.

[Unknown Fan]

On 11/22/2017 at 10:13, Jason King said:

Regionalisation of a national league is a step backwards, I cant think of one positive it would have on the playing standards.

See above would give a clear road for teams good enough to progress and pull some teams into a more regionalised system a step up from the juniors then that would go to increase interest attendances and cut travel costs and time for part time players and staff.   Higher standard and more competitive league would follow.

[Unknown Fan]

On 11/22/2017 at 11:57, Che Dail said:

Look at league 1 just now: Forfar v Albion Rovers and Stranraer v Arbroath or League 2: Peterhead v Berwick and Edinburgh City v Montrose - 4 times a season.

Just can't see much merit in having those games at all given the travel time, especially if games are called on a weds night. Attendances at these games would back this up. 

There should be room for 2 professional national leagues at the top and regional leagues below that. That way the focus on quality is at the elite level and there's a better standard of local league below, with an incentive for promotion uo alongside the big boys. 

I totally agree.

3 leagues of 14 in the SPFL at the very least with more access for the Lowland and Highland Champions, in a few years all teams would find their level quickly enough and lead to more competitive and fresher leagues with at least 13 different league clubs to play against instead of the 9 at the moment. 

[largo]

I like the fact that a town the size of Forfar can have 3 clubs all at the bottom of their respective leagues at the same time. Only in Scotland. Why take that away from us?

[Che Dail]

31 minutes ago, largo said:

I like the fact that a town the size of Forfar can have 3 clubs all at the bottom of their respective leagues at the same time. Only in Scotland. Why take that away from us?

Haha aye - or they could follow Ostersunds in Sweden who merged 4 clubs or Utrecht in Holland a merger of 3 clubs... 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Che Dail

[Burnie_man]

9 hours ago, Serendipity said:

Should have thought about that before he got involved in something that had f**k all to do with him. Telling posters they won’t be here  long wasn’t a clever thing to do because now they will never go away.  

So, a week ago under one of your previous multiple ID's you said you weren't here to disrupt.  Now you've admitted to engaging in a campaign of internet harassment. Not sure what kind of twisted satisfaction that gives you,  although I note you now have JB2 as another of your ID's and replying to each other, just like the old days.

Do yourself a favour, and all the Junior Forum users a favour, and give it a rest. Nobody is interested and it's all a rather sad spectacle.

[Burnie_man]

9 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

The best analogy I've heard is that most parents treat it like joining a gym and being a member doesn't translate into any real afliliation - if your gym started a competitive weightlifting club, it's unlikely you'd start following them around to competitions...

It's much the same with those clubs; parents are only interested in getting their kids to and from their game in the morning with zero intention of blowing their whole Saturday following the first team of an organisation they primarily see as providing a service.

We've seen it again and again with sides perhaps naively expecting a much larger buy-in from their huge memberships that they end up getting: BSC expected 2-300 a game and ended up with maybe 10% of that, and I imagine Cumbernauld will be similar. Closer to home, both Rossvale and Gartcairn haven't managed to translate membership into support so far - although the latter did get a few big attendances when they first joined the Juniors, the curiosity factor didn't seem to last long.

 

As we've said before, having a large youth structure does not equate to these kids and parents coming to watch the adult side. It doesn't happen. At all.   Maybe on a one-off basis for a big games a small percentage will come along but rarely does that happen, you'll find that some coaches of these teams come to games if it doesn't clash with their own but that is about it.

Clubs like Colts and BSC will find it very hard to attract any kind of support, particularly in the latters case with no home base. That said, they took the plunge and took advantage of the situation - same with Edusport - so you can't criticise them, criticise the structure and how it was implemented.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, JB2 said:

There lies one of your problems, accusing all and sundry of being the same ID if you don’t like their opinion. I’m as oblivious as you to the identity of serendipity or what is going on over in Fife. I’ve got a mind of my own, I’m just not afraid to speak it. 

Another of your problems is distinguishing the difference between constructive criticism and internet harassment. That my friend is a serious accusation and if you truly believe that may I suggest you do yourself a favour and pop into your nearest police station. I’m pretty sure they will take my opinion of you very seriously. 

Your biggest problem however is, you don’t allow ALL the Junior Forum users an opinion. The ones who don’t agree with you are all WRONG. Has it never occurred to you that not everyone is interested in your continual INTERNET HARRASMENT of Tom Johnston? 

Everyone is aware you're one and the same. It's fairly sad and very disruptive to the rest of the forum which doesn't seem to bother you, it consumes your life by the looks of it. A very troubled individual.

[non_sequitur]

Should have thought about that before he got involved in something that had f**k all to do with him. Telling posters they won’t be here  long wasn’t a clever thing to do because now they will never go away.  Thought the asshole who tried to run the Fife Forum would have told him that. He will be telling anyone willing to listen how it’s no his fault and it’s affecting his business next. Or maybe he’s better than that and will do the honourable thing an apologise. 

Holy f**k ya clown gies peace ye ruined the fife forum and noo yer ruining this yin with yer pish sort it like a grown up no a coward and piss aff

[Burnie_man]

24 minutes ago, JB2 said:

There you go again, just can’t help yourself.

What you mean is, you and Gogsy have DECIDED we are one and the same. You couldn’t be further from the truth but the pair of you have been here forever and think you know it all. What is really sad and disruptive is that you both are obsessed with new posters. You with the ones who challenge your views and him with the ones who mention some chairman over the bridge. Puting 2+2 together and coming up with 5. 

I will start to worry about being a troubled individual the day I find a thread about the future of Junior Football consuming my life. 

Speaking of which is not time you got it back on topic?

I'd suggest you got yourself a life, stopped trolling the forum under various different ID's .  Not sure what Gogsy has to do with it but at least it confirms you're the same saddo troll. It really is tragic mate, utterly tragic.

[Burnie_man]

That was a great read, complete bollocks of course but it does provide an insight into how your mind works.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, JB2 said:

If anything, maybe now you will have a better understanding of how the rest of us feel about your constant mutterings about pyramids and the SJFA

I think the last thing you should be doing is talking on behalf of anyone else unless its on behalf of your other ID's.  People are free to read threads or not, contribute or not, it's a forum, maybe you should follow that advice instead of acting like a complete p***k and trying to ruin the Forum with your constant shite.  If you have a beef with me, feel free to drop me a message and we can sort this out. If you have a beef with anyone else, man up and deal with it without acting like an immature teenager hiding behind multiple ID's.  It's pitiful stuff, it really is.

[Combester]

Another thread where the arrogance of Burnieman and his inability to respect anyone else’s opinion has taken over the topic. Think 99% of the posters in the Juniors section would agree with JB2. Gi us aw peace!

 

[non_sequitur]

Firstly, I’ve already explained I’ve a mind of my own and no other ID’s but you won’t listen because you think you’re never wrong.
Secondly, I’ve read threads and made my contribution , without cursing and swearing or resorting to name calling. It’s the first sign of losing a debate and you would like that so you can report me and have me removed because I can see right through you.
Finally, No need for threatening behaviour I’m not the one crying over the loss of a few liked posts

Gie it a rest ya fucking eejit

[non_sequitur]

Another thread where the arrogance of Burnieman and his inability to respect anyone else’s opinion has taken over the topic. Think 99% of the posters in the Juniors section would agree with JB2. Gi us aw peace!
 

I think fowk ken whit the problem is here the boys in charge need tae get rid of this loony fur guid ruined the fife forum wi his pish

[Burnie_man]

38 minutes ago, JB2 said:

Firstly, I’ve already explained I’ve a mind of my own and no other ID’s but you won’t listen because you think you’re never wrong.

Secondly, I’ve read threads and made my contribution , without cursing and swearing or resorting to name calling. It’s the first sign of losing a debate and you would like that so you can report me and have me removed because I can see right through you.

Finally, No need for threatening behaviour I’m not the one crying over the loss of a few liked posts

I've not threatened anything, I've invited you to send me a message directly to sort this (you can choose which ID you use) and we can take this off the forum. You either do that or carry on this ludicrous behaviour. Choice is yours.

[Burnie_man]

41 minutes ago, Combester said:

Another thread where the arrogance of Burnieman and his inability to respect anyone else’s opinion has taken over the topic. Think 99% of the posters in the Juniors section would agree with JB2. Gi us aw peace!

 

That was a quick survey you took there

[non_sequitur]

Does that come in English for those of us who don’t marry our cousins?

Naw [emoji8]