Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

536 posts in this topic

So change the kick-off times and that will save the future of Junior fitba?

What happens in the winter when it is getting dark at 4pm.Not many Junior clubs have floodlights or can afford to power them
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On 09 June 2017 at 15:14, Burnie_man said:

Just throwing this out there for discussion.

As expected we've seen Kelty jump ship, maybe one or two will follow in the next couple of seasons but I can’t see a trickle becoming a flood for various reasons, particularly in the West.

However, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a significant percentage of clubs out there who would like to see a proper pyramid structure in place which wholly involves Junior clubs, and for these clubs to work towards gaining an SFA Licence and work their way up that structure, participating in the Scottish Cup.

Currently, the SJFA don’t appear willing to engage in serious discussions with the SFA, or even open a debate internally with members on this issue.

So what do Junior clubs do next? what is the long-term future of Junior football?  Do nothing and hope that we only lose a handful of clubs and carry on unchanged, or begin an honest and open discussion between member clubs about how to integrate with the pyramid.

These are serious questions that now need asked but I doubt we’ll hear much about it at the upcoming AGM, it’ll be more head in the sand stuff and no leadership.

Just answering on the opening post, not had time to read rest.

For me, it is the collective 'we' of junior football that is a problem.  'We' are not junior clubs, 'we' are football clubs and that should be all that matters.  However the shake-up comes along either by pyramid, or strict regions, it should be remembered it is still one game, be you Berwick, Buckie or Bellshill.

The SJFA are self-interested.  They have held a power for so long that they don't want to see lost.

Everybody should be allowed to find their own level but getting rid of the moniker 'juniors' would be a fine start.

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Remember that the SJFA is an association of clubs so if on Saturday at the AGM, clubs stood up and voiced their opinions that they wanted significant change, more engagement with the Pyramid set-up, then TJ & Co would have to adhere to that wish. The clubs hold the power.  However, I rather suspect that there will be no such opinions voiced and clubs will allow themselves to be lead by the nose as usual.

The fact that the Re-instatement rule remains in place is a very poor indictment of member clubs. Do they want change for the better or just a hobby for something to do on a Saturday?

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On 2017-6-15 at 13:17, Jambo'ness said:

Just answering on the opening post, not had time to read rest.

For me, it is the collective 'we' of junior football that is a problem.  'We' are not junior clubs, 'we' are football clubs and that should be all that matters.  However the shake-up comes along either by pyramid, or strict regions, it should be remembered it is still one game, be you Berwick, Buckie or Bellshill.

The SJFA are self-interested.  They have held a power for so long that they don't want to see lost.

Everybody should be allowed to find their own level but getting rid of the moniker 'juniors' would be a fine start.

See, this is the bit I don't get. What advantages would there be if we called ourselves something different.

Sponsors/Advertisers put money into Junior clubs primarily because of a local connection of some sort and i would also think that most football fans in Scotland supporting a team at any level would be well versed in what the Juniors are all about and the 140 year history behind them.

Other than making it easier to explain to some English football fan in a random bar in Benidorm I honestly don't see what difference it would make calling our grade something else.

If someone could convince me that my door would be getting kicked in by potential sponsors clamouring to get their name on the front of our jerseys then I might change my mind.

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17 minutes ago, santheman said:

See, this is the bit I don't get. What advantages would there be if we called ourselves something different.

Sponsors/Advertisers put money into Junior clubs primarily because of a local connection of some sort and i would also think that most football fans in Scotland supporting a team at any level would be well versed in what the Juniors are all about and the 140 year history behind them.

Other than making it easier to explain to some English football fan in a random bar in Benidorm I honestly don't see what difference it would make calling our grade something else.

If someone could convince me that my door would be getting kicked in by potential sponsors clamouring to get their name on the front of our jerseys then I might change my mind.

It's not just "The Juniors" that have a monopoly on local connections. In fact I'd argue that pretty much every club in Scotland has local connections. My issue with football in Scotland is the pointless and divisive classification into Senior, Junior, Amateur, Welfare. We should just have football clubs.

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45 minutes ago, santheman said:

See, this is the bit I don't get. What advantages would there be if we called ourselves something different.

Sponsors/Advertisers put money into Junior clubs primarily because of a local connection of some sort and i would also think that most football fans in Scotland supporting a team at any level would be well versed in what the Juniors are all about and the 140 year history behind them.

Other than making it easier to explain to some English football fan in a random bar in Benidorm I honestly don't see what difference it would make calling our grade something else.

If someone could convince me that my door would be getting kicked in by potential sponsors clamouring to get their name on the front of our jerseys then I might change my mind.

You think?  Many football fans at my work do not understand the distinction between 'senior' and 'junior' and honestly think I just support a kids team.  Now, translate that to sponsorship and firms may not see any benefit advertising their product through what they believe is a kids team. 

Granted, most sponsorship at team level is given by local companies who have an understanding  but for the national cup for instance we should be harnessing sponsorship at a greater level.

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Any AGM news or was it just the usual head nodding, box ticking exercise?

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22 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

You think?  Many football fans at my work do not understand the distinction between 'senior' and 'junior' and honestly think I just support a kids team.  Now, translate that to sponsorship and firms may not see any benefit advertising their product through what they believe is a kids team. 

Granted, most sponsorship at team level is given by local companies who have an understanding  but for the national cup for instance we should be harnessing sponsorship at a greater level.

Well I go and watch various other levels of football from  Motherwell and Hamilton Accies to Amateurs and Schoolboys from time to time and most people there I speak to know the difference so I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. 

Still don't see how changing the grade name will attract more or better sponsorship from any company (presume you're talking about a national or multi-national) interested in sponsoring the Scottish Junior Cup.

It's not as if we would get any more press or tv coverage which presumably is what the potential sponsors companies/businesses would be looking for in return for their investment.

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can't we just change it simply because "Juniors" is a bit shite sounding?

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13 minutes ago, Shanner said:

can't we just change it simply because "Juniors" is a bit shite sounding?

Especially if it gets the Daily Wreckhorde to  change the crap name of their occasional column from "Loony Joons"

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3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Any AGM news or was it just the usual head nodding, box ticking exercise?

More or less, yes.

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More or less, yes.


Wonderful. Any mention of Pyramid or was it head in the sand stuff?
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11 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

 


Wonderful. Any mention of Pyramid or was it head in the sand stuff?

Yes, TJ did mention it, the door is not closed to participation. The feeling is that it is not the time for it, he described it as a "flawed" set up several times. Many of the clubs will agree with that.

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He seems to have at least conceded that a pyramid should happen.

Still seem a mile off from him being supportive of it.

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Indeed. Most agree it's "flawed", AFAICS, but that's largely because it has had to be put together by senior leagues alone without juniors. Chicken-n-egg.


If the idea itself is no longer being criticised by Johnston I suppose that's progress from calling it "undesirable", "the emperor's new clothes", £100k toilet blocks, £12 admission etc.

By the same token we're about to enter the 11th season of Junior qualifiers in the Scottish Cup and the 5th of the pyramid... so if still saying "now is not the time for it", when will be.


On another thread it's claimed the EOSL was "rubbished". It can't be that rubbish if the winner of 2 of the last 3 East Superleagues have decided to join it as part of pursuing a licence and promotion...

Edited by HibeeJibee
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1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

Indeed. Most agree it's "flawed", AFAICS, but that's largely because it has had to be put together by senior leagues alone without juniors. Chicken-n-egg.


If the idea itself is no longer being criticised by Johnston I suppose that's progress from calling it "undesirable", "the emperor's new clothes", £100k toilet blocks, £12 admission etc.

By the same token we're about to enter the 11th season of Junior qualifiers in the Scottish Cup and the 5th of the pyramid... so if still saying "now is not the time for it", when will be.


On another thread it's claimed the EOSL was "rubbished". It can't be that rubbish if the winner of 2 of the last 3 East Superleagues have decided to join it as part of pursuing a licence and promotion...

East of Scotland league is rubbish they've joined it based on where they can get too and not the east of scotland league.  If they failed to get promoted to Lowland league at the first attempt I could see a mass exodus of players.  IF not the first season certainly the 2nd.

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East of Scotland league is rubbish they've joined it based on where they can get too and not the east of scotland league.  If they failed to get promoted to Lowland league at the first attempt I could see a mass exodus of players.  IF not the first season certainly the 2nd.


Junior players (and every other player) for the most part go where the money is. If Kelty are still paying big bucks despite two failed attempts at promotion the players will be more than happy where they are.
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3 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

East of Scotland league is rubbish they've joined it based on where they can get too and not the east of scotland league.  If they failed to get promoted to Lowland league at the first attempt I could see a mass exodus of players.  IF not the first season certainly the 2nd.

The EOSL took the biggest hit when the LL was formed think they lost 7 or so clubs so the standard was always going to go down. With the squad Kelty have only Lothian and Leith should be really able to challenge them and even then I would think they would be stronger overall than those 2.

1 hour ago, energyzone said:

 


Junior players (and every other player) for the most part go where the money is. If Kelty are still paying big bucks despite two failed attempts at promotion the players will be more than happy where they are.

 

This.

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I think yous will find a lot will leave. Theirs no guarentee of promotion as have to play off with winner of south of scotland league.  We are talking about sjfa burying their heads in their sand. I think a lot of people on here are aswell. The worlds rosey and kelty wins it hands down.  Theirs a chance they won't

Edited by AlanCamelonfan
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