Junior football, what is the future?

[clash city rocker]

47 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I don't disagree, but I don't think you can just write off Dumfries and Galloway. Say, taking an example, one of the Dumfries teams decided that their fortunes lay in the Juniors, would they not get admitted to the West Region? You can't just ignore outlying areas, otherwise you'd be excluding a bit insignificant number of teams.

The Sjfa just disregard North juniors. SoS league is mince no west junior club will have anything to do with it.

[Burnie_man]

4 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

As far as the SFA is concerned

There's the flaw right there.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

I don't disagree, but I don't think you can just write off Dumfries and Galloway. Say, taking an example, one of the Dumfries teams decided that their fortunes lay in the Juniors, would they not get admitted to the West Region? You can't just ignore outlying areas, otherwise you'd be excluding a bit insignificant number of teams.

It would be interesting to see what happened were that the case - logically they would go into the ADL I suppose.

Probably worth pointing out that the current SoS membership aren't over-keen on travelling outside their immediate area; Edusport ended up moving down to Annan to cut down on travel for the rest of the league after starting out playing out of Hamilton Palace...no skin off their nose as literally no-one goes to see them anyway....and they had fairly serious misgivings about admitting Bonnyton from Killie this year due to the travel it would entail. I imagine they'd be less than thrilled shitless were Vale of Leven or Dunipace to apply

It's hypothetical anyway  - the core of the SoS down in Dumfries itself and along the Galloway coast seem to be happy enough with the status quo...if anyone were to try it it would more likely be one of the handful of sides further up who are caught between a rock and a hard place geographically. The likes of Sanquhar's a lot closer to most places in Ayrshire than it is to the places Nithsdale Wanderers have to travel to week in and week out for example.

I suspect if it was going to happen it would have happened by now though.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Hillonearth

[kefc]

Would it be viable for few clubs getting together if there was a genuine interest speaking to the powers that be to propose a West Of Scotland League alongside the East and South affiliated to the SFA?

[drs]

That would be the logical step - logic however is something that does seem to be in short supply in the Junior game.

[parkcircus]

1 hour ago, kefc said:

Would it be viable for few clubs getting together if there was a genuine interest speaking to the powers that be to propose a West Of Scotland League alongside the East and South affiliated to the SFA?

I could see some teams forming a breakaway league that became the west league in the pyramid and if those teams are mostly top teams then I'm sure the rest would follow 

[clash city rocker]

19 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

I could see some teams forming a breakaway league that became the west league in the pyramid and if those teams are mostly top teams then I'm sure the rest would follow 

Next season's set up in West Region juniors is perfect for a pyramid. The SoS clubs could join in at the bottom and work THEIR way up..always the juniors that have to move to BETTER themselves it seems. EoS league clubs could join in at bottom of East juniors pyramid.

[AlanCamelonfan]

20 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

Next season's set up in West Region juniors is perfect for a pyramid. The SoS clubs could join in at the bottom and work THEIR way up..always the juniors that have to move to BETTER themselves it seems. EoS league clubs could join in at bottom of East juniors pyramid.

This is what annoys me about everytime this is brought up why should we. WE are joining their league. Maybe if Burnt Island get fed up with seniors they could join the Super League.

[archieb]

SFA are fixed on the idea that the EoSL & SoSL are the only feeders below the LL and I can't see a proposed West Senior league formed from current West Juniors either displacing the SoSL or being fitted in alongside it.

There's enough geographical overlap between East Juniors and EoSL for individual clubs to make  the move either way but, as has been said numerous times it's totally impractical for a West Junior club to apply to join the SoSL, and nearly as problematic to apply for the LL.

What though if most or all of next season's 16 West Premiership clubs made simultaneous coordinated applications either to the LL or to the SoSL and were accepted?

Vanishingly unlikely it would ever happen of course, but .....

[parsforlife]

Next season's set up in West Region juniors is perfect for a pyramid. The SoS clubs could join in at the bottom and work THEIR way up..always the juniors that have to move to BETTER themselves it seems. EoS league clubs could join in at bottom of East juniors pyramid.

This is what annoys me about everytime this is brought up why should we. WE are joining their league. Maybe if Burnt Island get fed up with seniors they could join the Super League.

Not sure why this would annoy you. End of the day juniors are late to the party. It is the juniors who adapted an anti-pyramid stance, it's the juniors who put the likes of Tom Johnstone up to represent them, it's the juniors that haven't applied for open LL places. of course the move needs to come from the SJFA towards the pyramid.

[Hillonearth]

26 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Not sure why this would annoy you. End of the day juniors are late to the party. It is the juniors who adapted an anti-pyramid stance, it's the juniors who put the likes of Tom Johnstone up to represent them, it's the juniors that haven't applied for open LL places. of course the move needs to come from the SJFA towards the pyramid.

Looking it from our side of the fence we were given an invite at the very last minute to a party happening over the other side of the country in the hope we wouldn't show up.

Agreed, the SJFA blazers should have been more on the ball and engaged - why they weren't and why developments weren't disseminated to the clubs only they can explain - but the fact remains the clubs themselves were presented with a fait accompli six weeks before the previous season ended that it was starting in August, and also that the majority of the places had already been filled by a roster of clubs which certainly didn't reflect a list of the top nonleague clubs south of the Tay that anyone with a rudimentary knowledge would have picked - maybe half a dozen would have been on most people's lists, but others hadn't even been in the top EoS league for a decade or more.

Had there been a season's notice of it starting, there certainly would have been interest from Junior clubs, but an element of scepticism remains that the LL was the brainchild of a cabal of self-interested EoS clubs who really didn't want that to happen.

There was - and remains - very little chance of any mass move towards a soi-disant pyramid which is only functional in the south-east corner of the country.

[peasy23]

What though if most or all of next season's 16 West Premiership clubs made simultaneous coordinated applications either to the LL or to the SoSL and were accepted?
Vanishingly unlikely it would ever happen of course, but .....

Even if it did happen, it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas if the SoS sides were to accept. That would mean having 2 divisions and within several seasons the bulk of the current sides would find themselves in the bottom league. It would also make it more difficult for them to make the first round proper of the Scottish Cup and get to the prize money that goes with it.

[parsforlife]

Looking it from our side of the fence we were given an invite at the very last minute to a party happening over the other side of the country in the hope we wouldn't show up.
Agreed, the SJFA blazers should have been more on the ball and engaged - why they weren't and why developments weren't disseminated to the clubs only they can explain - but the fact remains the clubs themselves were presented with a fait accompli six weeks before the previous season ended that it was starting in August, and also that the majority of the places had already been filled by a roster of clubs which certainly didn't reflect a list of the top nonleague clubs south of the Tay that anyone with a rudimentary knowledge would have picked - maybe half a dozen would have been on most people's lists, but others hadn't even been in the top EoS league for a decade or more

Very few of the places in the LL were claimed, only spartans, threave and Preston were given automatic entry.

The SJFA were aware of the strong likelihood of a lowland league forming, and that their clubs were welcome to apply. The fact they didn't make their clubs aware of this or indeed deliberately spread false information about it is entirely the fault of the juniors.

You sent anti-pyramid people to pyramid discussions, how can you expect everyone else to wait around?

Blame the blazers all you want but they are elected by the clubs, and 5 years on their still here and as isolationist as ever.

Get rid of them for progressives and perhaps discussions will open up, without that then the only option is to take yourself out of their control like kelty have.

[Burnie_man]

Very few of the places in the LL were claimed, only spartans, threave and Preston were given automatic entry.

The SJFA were aware of the strong likelihood of a lowland league forming, and that their clubs were welcome to apply. The fact they didn't make their clubs aware of this or indeed deliberately spread false information about it is entirely the fault of the juniors.

You sent anti-pyramid people to pyramid discussions, how can you expect everyone else to wait around?

Blame the blazers all you want but they are elected by the clubs, and 5 years on their still here and as isolationist as ever.

Get rid of them for progressives and perhaps discussions will open up, without that then the only option is to take yourself out of their control like kelty have.

6 weeks notice of the LL formation. There was talk of a seasons notice but the likes of Spartans wanted it pushed through. However that particular point has been debated to death and is old news.

What needs to happen now is an open debate, first amongst the Juniors. However we appear to have the usual suspects forming a working group to have the same old discussions amongst themselves and in the end decide it's pish.

Hope I'm wrong.

[parsforlife]

6 weeks notice of the LL formation. There was talk of a seasons notice but the likes of Spartans wanted it pushed through. However that particular point has been debated to death and is old news.

What needs to happen now is an open debate, first amongst the Juniors. However we appear to have the usual suspects forming a working group to have the same old discussions amongst themselves and in the end decide it's pish.

Hope I'm wrong.

Desperately hope the working group has at least a few members from the 'rebel' clubs who were/are considering EoS applications. Otherwise we are destined for the findings to be 'the juniors is great' 'pyramid means Elgin away on a Tuesday night and paying for gold plated toilets'

[AlanCamelonfan]

11 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

 

Not sure why this would annoy you. End of the day juniors are late to the party. It is the juniors who adapted an anti-pyramid stance, it's the juniors who put the likes of Tom Johnstone up to represent them, it's the juniors that haven't applied for open LL places. of course the move needs to come from the SJFA towards the pyramid.

Thats not what I was saying. What I was saying was annoying was that people assume if we were to join we would jump to the head of the queue and East of Scotland League teams would be at the bottom. That wouldn't happen

[parsforlife]

Thats not what I was saying. What I was saying was annoying was that people assume if we were to join we would jump to the head of the queue and East of Scotland League teams would be at the bottom. That wouldn't happen

Ah right. In which case i entirely agree.

I have no idea why people would assume junior clubs would be ahead of eos clubs

[Hillonearth]

39 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Ah right. In which case i entirely agree.

I have no idea why people would assume junior clubs would be ahead of eos clubs

No-one’s talking about jumping queues, but there has to be a realistic acceptance in any future restructuring discussion of the relative strengths of some of the organisations involved if more of the mismatched comedy gold that ensued when one of the better Junior clubs finally made the step “up” is to be avoided:

Kelty 11 Eyemouth 1

Coldstream 2 Kelty 5

Kelty 7 Ormiston 0

Stirling Uni 1 Kelty 7

Burntisland 0 Kelty 4

Eyemouth 0 Kelty 13

Kelty 7 Heriot Watt 1

To be continued…

[drs]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Desperately hope the working group has at least a few members from the 'rebel' clubs who were/are considering EoS applications. Otherwise we are destined for the findings to be 'the juniors is great' 'pyramid means Elgin away on a Tuesday night and paying for gold plated toilets'

Bo'ness have been vocal in wanting to move on but they and the other clubs who were involved in the so called LL summit apparently sat on their hands at the AGM, it appears that even the clubs who are looking to move on don't want to encourage debate.

Which is a crying shame.

Edited October 27, 2017 by drs

[drs]

11 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

No-one’s talking about jumping queues, but there has to be a realistic acceptance in any future restructuring discussion of the relative strengths of some of the organisations involved if more of the mismatched comedy gold that ensued when one of the better Junior clubs finally made the step “up” is to be avoided:

Stirling Uni 1 Kelty 7

...but that's the Stirling Uni B team, the team actually made up of students.