Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

I do believe this nut job  was calling clubs that are leaving as "scabs" on twitter.    What was it I was saying about every single tweet or post like this eroding the Juniors reputation and bargaining position? Dear me, the bitterness in some is extreme.

Glenafton1893 has red dotted this, and looking at it, this twitter nut job is a Glenafton fan, co-incidence?

[Goalie Hamish]

Glenafton1893 has red dotted this, and looking at it, this twitter nut job is a Glenafton fan, co-incidence?

Its Ayrshire have you no learnt by now [emoji23]

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Che Dail said:

In fairness that's exactly what the clubs leaving have done.

SJFA not interested in an under 20s league, sadly.

Lets look at whats happening to a once great feeder grade to both junior and senior football..the under 21 Juvenile leagues...Famous well run clubs like Campsie Black Watch and others going out of existence annually till we only have a handful existing today because the committees are devoted to retaining their communities club...Killed off by the new Acadamies and seniors taking players out of circulation at 9/10/11 /12 etc years old starving the natural paths through schools/boys clubs and so on for the juveniles. True the juniors WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN UNDER 20 TEAMS BECAUSE THE TALENT HAD BEEN SYPHONED OF BY THE SENIORS...That wont change with the pyramid..very soon......the potential players are not available to them.

[Deadly]

Calling me a "hater" based on not knowing or talking with me is not something I can accept. As for thinly veiled threats I have only given him advice that he should take.

I've always thought Lochee United to be a well run club, and enjoyed my visits there as a player or paying punter.

I'd like to think these comments don't represent the club as a whole. Hopefully an apology comes from juniorsforme, and if not then i'd hope the club apologise on his behalf.

Clubs should be engaging with local communities, and also making their ground a ground that neutrals feel welcome at.

[Mr Prez]

5 hours ago, G4Mac said:

Dale boy, an alternative view may be that the junior clubs have worked tirelessly hard to integrate their local community and have been looking towards gaining a licence for a considerable period.

To gain an SFA licence a club must be committed to the pyramid. With a commitment to licensing and the pyramid comes more exposure and the potential to attract better players and potentially more interest from fans. Yes some clubs may not be the greatest on the field right now, but you confuse club with team. Just because a club is successful in a junior league doesn't mean they deserve anything, particularly if they do not commit to the SFA guidelines on licensing, which right now involves a dedication to the pyramid. 

In moving to the eosfl the clubs have committed to the pyramid and their local community. Why does it matter if they wind up right at the top straight away, what's important is their commitment to the future of local, regional and national football, for the imminent yearly future. Not simply blowing all their income on getting some trophies and some money...... 

 

Far to sensible for on here spot on

[1320Lichtie]

I've always thought Lochee United to be a well run club, and enjoyed my visits there as a player or paying punter.

I'd like to think these comments don't represent the club as a whole. Hopefully an apology comes from juniorsforme, and if not then i'd hope the club apologise on his behalf.

Clubs should be engaging with local communities, and also making their ground a ground that neutrals feel welcome at.

You’ll not get that, the official club tweets slagging off Keith Gibson are still no deleted with no apology made.

[TheLad]

Lets look at whats happening to a once great feeder grade to both junior and senior football..the under 21 Juvenile leagues...Famous well run clubs like Campsie Black Watch and others going out of existence annually till we only have a handful existing today because the committees are devoted to retaining their communities club...Killed off by the new Acadamies and seniors taking players out of circulation at 9/10/11 /12 etc years old starving the natural paths through schools/boys clubs and so on for the juveniles. True the juniors WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN UNDER 20 TEAMS BECAUSE THE TALENT HAD BEEN SYPHONED OF BY THE SENIORS...That wont change with the pyramid..very soon......the potential players are not available to them.

All that you have said there just points to the fact that football has changed and clubs have to move with the times. No point in looking back to how it used work so well.
What does it look like in 5-10 years time and where does your club need to be to survive?

[Burnie_man]

32 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

Lets look at whats happening to a once great feeder grade to both junior and senior football..the under 21 Juvenile leagues...Famous well run clubs like Campsie Black Watch and others going out of existence annually till we only have a handful existing today because the committees are devoted to retaining their communities club...Killed off by the new Acadamies and seniors taking players out of circulation at 9/10/11 /12 etc years old starving the natural paths through schools/boys clubs and so on for the juveniles. True the juniors WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN UNDER 20 TEAMS BECAUSE THE TALENT HAD BEEN SYPHONED OF BY THE SENIORS...That wont change with the pyramid..very soon......the potential players are not available to them.

More than a few of the new entrants will have teams in this league, which will expand accordingly;

http://slfl.co.uk/table/development-league/

Which can only be good for them and football in their area.  There's no U21 league in West Lothian for our U19's to progress to.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Hasnt been an u-21 league in Fife in over 10? years.

Did Burntisland withdraw, sure I saw they have an U20 team in the LL Development league this season?

[GordonS]

It's a Friday night and I feel like floating a probably stupid idea.

Everyone knows that a significant number of the biggest and best non-league clubs in Scotland are in Ayrshire. One of their main reservations about the pyramid is that Tier 5 covers all of southern Scotland and the travel distances are too great. One suggestion is to have three regions at Tier 5, but for me that's far from ideal.

Here's where everyone shouts at me, but... how about a conference system like in the NFL, MLS and Pro14 rugby? 

10 West, 10 East. Each team plays everyone in their own conference home and away for 18 games, and one game home or away against the other conference for another 10 games, so 28 games split 14 home, 14 away. Each season you'd switch the home/away ties against the other conference. The top two in each conference would have play-offs to decide the winner, semis and a final. Relegation could either be done by play-offs, or it could be 1-2 from each conference dropping down to Tier 6 in their own region, which would mean it would always be the same number of East & West.

There's a massive aversion in Scotland to a single match to decide the winner of a league, but it would generate a lot of attention. I think it's worth thinking about.

[Burnie_man]

21 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Yes withdrew a couple of months back. They were a young side but played some decent football from what I saw of them. Results wise they struggled though, the quality of the matches I saw were pretty decent.

Looking forward to these next season, then again I'm told moving to the EoS is all about the money........

[BTID]

What are the terms and conditions for joining the 20s league...apart from being a league member?

[Robert James]

7 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

Apart from NCL and welfare clubs

 

The SFA should give parity to the NCL champions, for next season's Scottish Cup. THe 2017/18 champions are Orkney FC (for the first time), and it would be very INCLUSIVE to recognise that the Islands have senior clubs as well. 

Also, Shetland FC and Lewis & Harris FC play in some of the North Caledonian Cup Competitions.

[drs]

Lewis & Harris FC can do one, Ness for the Scottish Cup!

[Robert James]

7 hours ago, G4Mac said:

Dale boy, an alternative view may be that the junior clubs have worked tirelessly hard to integrate their local community and have been looking towards gaining a licence for a considerable period.

To gain an SFA licence a club must be committed to the pyramid. With a commitment to licensing and the pyramid comes more exposure and the potential to attract better players and potentially more interest from fans. Yes some clubs may not be the greatest on the field right now, but you confuse club with team. Just because a club is successful in a junior league doesn't mean they deserve anything, particularly if they do not commit to the SFA guidelines on licensing, which right now involves a dedication to the pyramid. 

In moving to the eosfl the clubs have committed to the pyramid and their local community. Why does it matter if they wind up right at the top straight away, what's important is their commitment to the future of local, regional and national football, for the imminent yearly future. Not simply blowing all their income on getting some trophies and some money...... 

 

I agree, and if non league clubs want to attract and retain younger fans (which is the future), these kids need to be "living the dream".   With a pyramid system, there is the chance/dream (however remote) of climbing the ladder, and playing bigger clubs in higher leagues.  In addition, the Scottish Cup gives non league clubs the chance of becoming a 'giant killer', which though rare, is nevertheless remembered for generations. There is no 'glass ceiling'.

External investment becomes more commonplace, and (according to Kelty's experience), attendances rise, not fall.  Media attention will also increase. Yes there are some weaker teams in the seniors, as there are in the juniors, but look at the recent successes of Cove, Brora, Fraserburgh, Formentine, East Kilbride, Spartans, etc, to see that the Highland & Lowland Leagues are strong, and will become even stronger in the future, especially if a West Feeder League is formed.

It is time to seize the moment, and move onwards and upwards !

[surely not!]

It's a Friday night and I feel like floating a probably stupid idea.
Everyone knows that a significant number of the biggest and best non-league clubs in Scotland are in Ayrshire. One of their main reservations about the pyramid is that Tier 5 covers all of southern Scotland and the travel distances are too great. One suggestion is to have three regions at Tier 5, but for me that's far from ideal.
Here's where everyone shouts at me, but... how about a conference system like in the NFL, MLS and Pro14 rugby? 
10 West, 10 East. Each team plays everyone in their own conference home and away for 18 games, and one game home or away against the other conference for another 10 games, so 28 games split 14 home, 14 away. Each season you'd switch the home/away ties against the other conference. The top two in each conference would have play-offs to decide the winner, semis and a final. Relegation could either be done by play-offs, or it could be 1-2 from each conference dropping down to Tier 6 in their own region, which would mean it would always be the same number of East & West.
There's a massive aversion in Scotland to a single match to decide the winner of a league, but it would generate a lot of attention. I think it's worth thinking about.

I like it. Different, a little quirky, but ultimately workable. Also solves many of the reservations people have.

The home/away by yearly swap can be an issue though as there’ll be promotion and relegation so not the same opponents year in year out to swap with.

Personally like the idea ( although doesn’t solve geography issues) of leagues reverting to the way they work the rugby league down south. Splits after everyone’s played everyone home and away (top two tiers are 12 team leagues so 22 games each) into three groups of eight playing Home and away with advantages placed on positions. The top league and bottom league keep their points and play out the season to decide who wins the top ( or promoted in pyramid terms) and those who finish bottom of the third section get relegated.

The middle eight all reset to zero and play a seven game league. The top 4 then compete in the Super league (top tier of 12 ) next season and the bottom four compete in the second tier the following season. They even play a one off game between the teams in 4th and 5th to decide the last place in the top tier.

Somewhat better explanation here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/36825300

[one nil]

298 pages so far.  One thing is absolutely certain.  There’ll be a damn site fewer posts in the Juniors section

of this forum next year. Mores the pity.  Or is it?

[Mr Illustrious]

3 hours ago, Deadly said:

I've always thought Lochee United to be a well run club, and enjoyed my visits there as a player or paying punter.

I'd like to think these comments don't represent the club as a whole. Hopefully an apology comes from juniorsforme, and if not then i'd hope the club apologise on his behalf.

Clubs should be engaging with local communities, and also making their ground a ground that neutrals feel welcome at.


 

Speaking from experience? Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t you the victim of a similar incident? If you’re who I think you are I’d even go as far to say the incident to which Im referring was a lot worse than “good advice”. No way am I defending the poster, just find it strange you’d expect Lochee to apologise on his behalf yet you returned to a club who to my knowledge never issued yourself with one on behalf of the sleekit b*****d who threatened you.

[San Starko Rover]

Calling me a "hater" based on not knowing or talking with me is not something I can accept. As for thinly veiled threats I have only given him advice that he should take.

Wow!

If you’re genuinely a club official as others have suggested then I’m actually embarrassed for your club. Threatening fans from attending games at your ground on an Internet forum for calling you something as trivial as a “hater” is not the behaviour of a club official at any level.

[cmontheloknow]

Just for the record as posts get lost easily here!

The full list: (updated with self confirmations)

Blackburn United
Bonnyrigg Rose
Camelon Juniors
Crossgates Primrose (facebook)
Dalkeith Thistle (website)
Dunipace (facebook)
Easthouses Lily (twitter)
Edinburgh United (facebook)
Haddington Athletic
Hill of Beath Hawthorn (twitter)
Hillfield Swifts (twitter)
Musselburgh Athletic
Tranent