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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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22 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

mediocre

...and can the people who cant ever offer any reason to stay in the Junior "grade" PLEASE use a thesaurus and come up with a different phrase, its beginning to look like you don't have a single original idea at all.

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3 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

Junior football is not dying anymore than any other level of football in Scotland. As for embarrassing you should  know all about that McGinty

Crowds down

Average age of paying guests 60+

No sponsor for the "grades" premier competition

Yeah, its in the best of health and that's before we mention the lack of fixtures etc. But you carry on believing because JUNIORS!!!

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7 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

Junior football is not dying anymore than any other level of football in Scotland. As for embarrassing you should  know all about that McGinty

Junior football isn't a "level" - it's a set of leagues, and as such when teams are leaving then you can hardly say it's getting stronger...

29 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

Got to agree with Bluebell1 you have continually put the boot into Junior football and  Tom Johnston along with any poster who disagrees with your take on things. I have to  laugh when you say " your passion for the pryamid "  Your passion should  have seen you work to  guide Blackburn into  the SL and at least then  you would have been  able to claim we have went as far as we could at Junior level  ! I also find it amusing you think the EoS is the land of milk  and honey....if so why are the current clubs mediocre both on and off the park. 

So let me get this right - Blackburn shouldn't have gone to the EoS because they're not a Superleague club, but if they waited and became a SL club next season due to teams leaving, that would then make it ok to leave the Juniors?

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Crowds ? I would still say the crowds at Junior football are miles ahead of EoS / LL.......Average age  would be no  different.................Lack of a  sponsor for the Scottish is one I will give you but  that will change. Every league in the West / East is sponsored by McBookie.  Fixtures is always a sore one but when I see the advanced fixture list for the EoS  I have to admit it looks good until venues and kick off times are changed often at the last minute. Seen a couple of games changed recently  with kick  off's at 12.00pm and 4.00pm......  Also easy to  create a fixture list for 14 teams who have no  Scottish Cup to  participate in and clubs playing in inter regional  cups. Then the farce of Kelty and LTHV the only two teams who had any chance of winning it playing their two league matches back to back....that makes a lot of sense does it not. Finally I have never said the Juniors were perfect......in  fact I have had many a  battle with  TJ  about a number of issues but i have had to go with the decision. What I  know  is the EoS is  not what you all think it is and money will  not shower down like some of you  think. Time will  tell.

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27 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

Junior football is not dying anymore than any other level of football in Scotland. As for embarrassing you should  know all about that McGinty

I can appreciate that you are rather alarmed at the way things are going for the Juniors currently, but maybe you (and TJ) should have thought of that before standing up in a meeting 5/6 years ago and telling everyone about £150k toilet blocks and the mountains of cash it would take to get a Licence and we'd all need floodlights etc, the negativity and misinformation was astounding, or wasting your time snooping around at the behest of TJ to find out who I was (there’s a story to be told about that saga, but all in good time). It’s ironic you’re now hiding behind various ID’s.

Maybe more of an open forward thinking mind back then would have seen us all, collectively, in the place where the SJFA are scrambling to get you to right now. Too late for that of course, but from what I have heard about your impassioned “speech” at the last East Region meeting, you’ve not really changed. Time to waken up and accept the inevitable, as the survey results illustrated.

Edited by Burnie_man
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27 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Which to be fair is something you have done in the majority of your posts on this thread with your seeming hatred for Burnieman.

Junior football is dying, if you cant see that then you are being blinkered - the pyramid offers a way for current Junior clubs to survive and thrive as Senior clubs.

Blinkered cuts both ways -  I'm not a fan of a pyramid, but have come to recognise it's fast becoming the only option.  Whilst, I understand ambition is a strong motivator - there is a fine line  where ambition becomes chancing your arm.  

I  understand why the EoS would wish to entertain so many new clubs - but there is a serious danger of quantity outweighing quality.  A few strong applicants and also quite a few applicants who won't add much value.

Dundonald for me have shown common sense and I applaud their statement and shows to me  both ambition and reality to make the required improvements on and off the pitch before moving

What is pleasing is that both the SJFA and SFA are finally awaking and starting to address matters - albeit very slowly.

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3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Junior football isn't a "level" - it's a set of leagues, and as such when teams are leaving then you can hardly say it's getting stronger...

So let me get this right - Blackburn shouldn't have gone to the EoS because they're not a Superleague club, but if they waited and became a SL club next season due to teams leaving, that would then make it ok to leave the Juniors?

Junior football is a grade or level  of football that has leagues throughout Scotland.  Just as EoS is a level  or grade. I have never said Blackburn shouldn't have gone because they are not a Super League club.

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Why the obsession with Blackburn United not being Superleague? Who cares if they are Superleague, East Region South Division, Lothians & Edinburgh Division 5 or whatever? It's still the same, they are not in the pyramid and have every right to apply to join it if they wish. They need to do what they think is best for the future and if that's an EOS application, then fair play and good luck to them.

Only if the Juniors actually join the pyramid, you can tell them to first go through more divisions. Now there aren't any other divisions in the pyramid below the EOS for them to go through.

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17 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

Got to agree with Bluebell1 you have continually put the boot into Junior football and  Tom Johnston along with any poster who disagrees with your take on things. I have to  laugh when you say " your passion for the pryamid "  Your passion should  have seen you work to  guide Blackburn into  the SL and at least then  you would have been  able to claim we have went as far as we could at Junior level  ! I also find it amusing you think the EoS is the land of milk  and honey....if so why are the current clubs mediocre both on and off the park. 

I don't agree with junior v senior slagging, and both 'sides' have made plenty of comments which fall into this category.  However on a point of fact, the EoS lost most of its best clubs to the Lowland when it was created, and it has managed to survive against the odds. If (when ?) the East Region also loses 7 or 8 of its best clubs to the pyramid, it will unquestionably signal a fall in quality and standards, both on and off the pitch.

All parties should be looking forward to having a pyramid structure which benefits Scottish football:

* in the West, any new feeder league will (should) be dominated by junior clubs, and should be easy to create. However the SoSL clubs who are licensed, or can be licensed in the near future, should not be brushed aside as an irrelevance, and need to remain at Tier 6 level in the new West/South structure. If the SJFA wants it to be a West Junior 'takeover' plan, it won't be adopted in this format, for this year, next year, or any time soon

* in the North, the situation could be hindered by the 'boundary' issue, and the stance taken by the Highland League regarding setting standards for entry (eg floodlights, enclosed grounds, etc) the situation, hence will be difficult to resolve, particularly in relation to the Tayside 'group' of clubs which the SFA considers fall within the Highland football area 

* in the East, there is no rational argument for 2 separate and 'competing' feeder leagues, and the SFA, the Pyramid Working Group,  and senior clubs will not support it. Don't take my word for it, but don't blame the SFA if the situation drags on because of intransigence by the SJFA, and its 'hold' over some junior clubs. England has a very diverse pyramid, but nowhere do the  non-league tiers 2 to 5 overlap and compete for each others clubs. There is some minor adjustment each season, by moving 1 or 2 clubs (between leagues), solely for the purpose of balancing the number of clubs in the 25 leagues concerned. The SFA controls this process.

Camelon and HoBH have the right to withdraw their EoS applications, but by staying outside the existing pyramid system, they will not be able to directly influence its structure, next year (or whenever).   I wonder if they have the support of their Members, fans, and local communities , or if so, will retain their backing if Tier 6 is "full up", and they have to join the pyramid lower down the structure ?

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3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I can appreciate that you are rather alarmed at the way things are going for the Juniors currently, but maybe you (and TJ) should have thought of that before standing up in a meeting 5/6 years ago and telling everyone about £150k toilet blocks and the mountains of cash it would take to get a Licence and we'd all need floodlights etc, the negativity and misinformation was astounding, or wasting your time snooping around at the behest of TJ to find out who I was (there’s a story to be told about that saga, but all in good time). It’s ironic you’re now hiding behind various ID’s.

Maybe more of an open forward thinking mind back then would have seen us all, collectively, in the place where the SJFA are scrambling to get you to right now. Too late for that of course, but from what I have heard about your impassioned “speech” at the last East Region meeting, you’ve not really changed. Time to waken up and accept the inevitable, as the survey results illustrated.

I have never at anytime at any meeting said what you have printed. I can also state I have never been asked by TJ or anyone to snoop around for information on you or anyone else on this forum. As for ID's I have posted using one other ID but not used it for over 3 years, you Mr McGinty have brought names into this not me. 

As for my speech you had the same opportunity to  speak.....unfortunately you were hiding behind a keyboard as per normal. Please bring on your story I look forward to it

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1 minute ago, juniorsforme said:

I have never at anytime at any meeting said what you have printed. I can also state I have never been asked by TJ or anyone to snoop around for information on you or anyone else on this forum. As for ID's I have posted using one other ID but not used it for over 3 years, you Mr McGinty have brought names into this not me. 

As for my speech you had the same opportunity to  speak.....unfortunately you were hiding behind a keyboard as per normal. Please bring on your story I look forward to it

Oh I think you have, and you forget I witnessed it (and commented on it on here at the time) after these meetings. As for the snooping, it will come out all in good time.

Hiding behind a keyboard eh, that's what the normal process is for contributing to an internet forum, but you and I have attended many of the same meetings over a number of years when I was a delegate, SJFA, ERJFA and Pyramid meetings and I've always kept the same forum ID. Hardly hiding.

It really is surprising just how rattled a few people are over my posts.

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20 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

I  understand why the EoS would wish to entertain so many new clubs - but there is a serious danger of quantity outweighing quality.  A few strong applicants and also quite a few applicants who won't add much value.

All clubs will add value, its typical of the fans that aren't engaged with the process to demean clubs who are looking to improve themselves.

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11 minutes ago, juniorsforme said:

I have never at anytime at any meeting said what you have printed. I can also state I have never been asked by TJ or anyone to snoop around for information on you or anyone else on this forum. As for ID's I have posted using one other ID but not used it for over 3 years, you Mr McGinty have brought names into this not me. 

As for my speech you had the same opportunity to  speak.....unfortunately you were hiding behind a keyboard as per normal. Please bring on your story I look forward to it

Wow, you seem upset.

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4 minutes ago, bendan said:

It's only ever supporters of the juniors that claim this. 

Edinburgh City and Annan seem to have done well out of moving into the SPFL.  But you know "THE JUNIORS", its still very very telling that the anti-brigade still haven't come up with a coherent debating point against the pyramid beyond facile support for a "grade" that only actually exists on paper.

Sad.

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46 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Crowds down

Average age of paying guests 60+

No sponsor for the "grades" premier competition

Yeah, its in the best of health and that's before we mention the lack of fixtures etc. But you carry on believing because JUNIORS!!!

Do you have a source for either of the first two assertions? How does average age and crowd size compare with the EOS?

 

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7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Oh I think you have, and you forget I witnessed it (and commented on it on here at the time) after these meetings. As for the snooping, it will come out all in good time.

Hiding behind a keyboard eh, that's what the normal process is for contributing to an internet forum, but you and I have attended many of the same meetings over a number of years when I was a delegate, SJFA, ERJFA and Pyramid meetings and I've always kept the same forum ID. Hardly hiding.

It really is surprising just how rattled a few people are over my posts.

Burnie, bring it on !

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