Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, drs said:

Dunipace confirm they are looking to move East,

Dunipace Football Club - The Future

We would like to formally announce our aspiration to move into the Senior Scottish game for season 2018/19 by applying to both the East of Scotland League and FA.

Our Club Executive Committee went through a process of due dilligence early in 2018 in order to come to this decision, carefully considering the detail available with regards pros and cons of all options open to us. At the end of this process the vote, for the benefit of the future of the entire club, was unanimous. At this time we would like to express our most sincere gratitude to both the SJFA and West Region Juniors for providing the club with a fantastic platform throughout our 130 year history. Our achievements through the generations; from a Scottish Junior Cup win in 1906, to the most recent success in the Evening Times Cup in 1999, via a lifetime membership of the SJFA award for our fondly remembered long term chairman George Hunter: The Junior grade has been a fantastic home for Dunipace FC.

 

We are proud of our Junior history, but for the benefit of the club, the players (from kids through to adults) and the community we serve we have made this decision in order to ensure the club is in the best possible position to grow, improve and thrive for the next 130 years. In early 2018 the Club Executive Committee announced securing over �600,000 of investment for the Denny & Dunipace area to provide a state of the art facility that will become the new home of Dunipace FC (currently more than 250 players and growing at all levels).This has been the culmination of 8 years of hard work from the club and many partners, including: The Scottish Football Association, Falkirk Council, Sportscotland, Falkirk Community Trust, our local elected members; Cllr Paul Garner, Michael Mathieson MSP and John McNally MSP, and our local community.

 We will soon begin work on upgrading the surface, installing floodlights and a perimeter fence and providing new changing facilities that meet all the standards required of the partner organisations. This will mean that for the first time the whole club can have a single base to operate from with a quality surface that will allow ALL teams to train and play games. It will provide a hub of activity for the community with additional plans for an updated club room, enclosure and improved access already well underway. It will allow us to add over 35's, community programs and more, all from our own purpose built facility, all year round.

With the huge amount of effort put in by everyone at the club over the last decade through our Quality Mark commitment we have put in place strong, inclusive and comprehensive supporting policies and procedures. The creation of this facility, aligned with this work, means SFA Licensing which once seemed unattainable is now a realistic goal for the club to work towards. We aim to work towards achieving Entry Level Licensing through 2018/19 with a view to having this in place for season 2019/20, where if successful Dunipace FC would, for the first time in our history, be eligible to participate in the Senior Scottish Cup. Our commitment to Licensing requires a commitment to the Pyramid and was a factor in the decision to make this move.

Another major factor was access to an Under 20 Development league, as run by the East of Scotland league in conjunction with the South and Lowland leagues. Giving kids coming to the end of the community pathway a route into Senior football, via an established development pathway, will be a great addition to the structure at the club. Developing young players through the age groups and seeing them regularly pull on the black and white of the 'Pace First Team is the ambition of everyone connected with the club and this is another tool which will aid in that objective, better serving our local community in the process.

We are working hard to make this a reality for season 2018/19 and hope to have a new and exciting partnership to announce on this front in the coming weeks, subject to the decision on our application by the EoS League and FA. With many other clubs also deciding that this is the right time to apply to become members of the Senior game, it means, if accepted as we hope, we will be moving to a superbly run, competitive league, with great facilities and a number of interesting games that we hope, along with a welcoming and upgraded facility, will peak the interest of the local community.

No prospective game more-so than the potential local (friendly!) derby against our closest neighbours Camelon Juniors, who have also recently announced their application. This is a game that, despite our proximity of only a few miles, has rarely been played competitively but could be on the fixture list come June when the full season fixtures are announced.

Given the speculation over recent weeks we felt it only right that we make this information available at this time. We hope that everyone connected with Dunipace FC, Denny, Dunipace and our wider community can understand our reasons for making this decision and, if we are successful on Thursday, will support the 'Pace as we embark on a new journey. A journey which will hopefully provide youngsters in and around the town a pathway from kids right through to Senior football without leaving the Denny and Dunipace area.

Saturday's game versus Ashfield marked both the last home game on Grass and if our application is successful on Thursday, last home game as a Junior club. Thanks to those who came down to Westfield to support the team. Youth section players attended and had a photograph taken with the first team and this was great to see. We hope the work being done behind the scenes captures your imagination and we can welcome you all regularly on our journey long into the future.

We look forward to a new and exciting future for the club and everyone around it.

Well done to all involved!

 

Great statement and explanation of the reasoning behind the move.

[parkcircus]

1 hour ago, drs said:

Dunipace confirm they are looking to move East,

Dunipace Football Club - The Future

We would like to formally announce our aspiration to move into the Senior Scottish game for season 2018/19 by applying to both the East of Scotland League and FA.

Our Club Executive Committee went through a process of due dilligence early in 2018 in order to come to this decision, carefully considering the detail available with regards pros and cons of all options open to us. At the end of this process the vote, for the benefit of the future of the entire club, was unanimous. At this time we would like to express our most sincere gratitude to both the SJFA and West Region Juniors for providing the club with a fantastic platform throughout our 130 year history. Our achievements through the generations; from a Scottish Junior Cup win in 1906, to the most recent success in the Evening Times Cup in 1999, via a lifetime membership of the SJFA award for our fondly remembered long term chairman George Hunter: The Junior grade has been a fantastic home for Dunipace FC.

 

We are proud of our Junior history, but for the benefit of the club, the players (from kids through to adults) and the community we serve we have made this decision in order to ensure the club is in the best possible position to grow, improve and thrive for the next 130 years. In early 2018 the Club Executive Committee announced securing over �600,000 of investment for the Denny & Dunipace area to provide a state of the art facility that will become the new home of Dunipace FC (currently more than 250 players and growing at all levels).This has been the culmination of 8 years of hard work from the club and many partners, including: The Scottish Football Association, Falkirk Council, Sportscotland, Falkirk Community Trust, our local elected members; Cllr Paul Garner, Michael Mathieson MSP and John McNally MSP, and our local community.

 We will soon begin work on upgrading the surface, installing floodlights and a perimeter fence and providing new changing facilities that meet all the standards required of the partner organisations. This will mean that for the first time the whole club can have a single base to operate from with a quality surface that will allow ALL teams to train and play games. It will provide a hub of activity for the community with additional plans for an updated club room, enclosure and improved access already well underway. It will allow us to add over 35's, community programs and more, all from our own purpose built facility, all year round.

With the huge amount of effort put in by everyone at the club over the last decade through our Quality Mark commitment we have put in place strong, inclusive and comprehensive supporting policies and procedures. The creation of this facility, aligned with this work, means SFA Licensing which once seemed unattainable is now a realistic goal for the club to work towards. We aim to work towards achieving Entry Level Licensing through 2018/19 with a view to having this in place for season 2019/20, where if successful Dunipace FC would, for the first time in our history, be eligible to participate in the Senior Scottish Cup. Our commitment to Licensing requires a commitment to the Pyramid and was a factor in the decision to make this move.

Another major factor was access to an Under 20 Development league, as run by the East of Scotland league in conjunction with the South and Lowland leagues. Giving kids coming to the end of the community pathway a route into Senior football, via an established development pathway, will be a great addition to the structure at the club. Developing young players through the age groups and seeing them regularly pull on the black and white of the 'Pace First Team is the ambition of everyone connected with the club and this is another tool which will aid in that objective, better serving our local community in the process.

We are working hard to make this a reality for season 2018/19 and hope to have a new and exciting partnership to announce on this front in the coming weeks, subject to the decision on our application by the EoS League and FA. With many other clubs also deciding that this is the right time to apply to become members of the Senior game, it means, if accepted as we hope, we will be moving to a superbly run, competitive league, with great facilities and a number of interesting games that we hope, along with a welcoming and upgraded facility, will peak the interest of the local community.

No prospective game more-so than the potential local (friendly!) derby against our closest neighbours Camelon Juniors, who have also recently announced their application. This is a game that, despite our proximity of only a few miles, has rarely been played competitively but could be on the fixture list come June when the full season fixtures are announced.

Given the speculation over recent weeks we felt it only right that we make this information available at this time. We hope that everyone connected with Dunipace FC, Denny, Dunipace and our wider community can understand our reasons for making this decision and, if we are successful on Thursday, will support the 'Pace as we embark on a new journey. A journey which will hopefully provide youngsters in and around the town a pathway from kids right through to Senior football without leaving the Denny and Dunipace area.

Saturday's game versus Ashfield marked both the last home game on Grass and if our application is successful on Thursday, last home game as a Junior club. Thanks to those who came down to Westfield to support the team. Youth section players attended and had a photograph taken with the first team and this was great to see. We hope the work being done behind the scenes captures your imagination and we can welcome you all regularly on our journey long into the future.

We look forward to a new and exciting future for the club and everyone around it.

Well done to all involved!

Great statement and all the best

[HTG]

1 hour ago, Khufu2 said:

LOL! Who on earth do you think you are?

There is a moratorium on licence applications.

Dalkeith and Blackburn are not EOS members.  They are junior clubs.

Their applications will be dealt with a) when they join the EOS  b) when the SFA lifts the moratorium.

Despite what has been posted there is no processing of any Blackburn or Dalkeith application at the moment.

All those statements are facts.

It’s not rocket science.

 

 

Hmm.  Definitely not rocket science. Try and pay attention when folk are giving you ACTUAL facts rather than your own made up sort. 

[clash city rocker]

5 hours ago, drs said:

Dunipace confirm they are looking to move East,

Dunipace Football Club - The Future

We would like to formally announce our aspiration to move into the Senior Scottish game for season 2018/19 by applying to both the East of Scotland League and FA.

Our Club Executive Committee went through a process of due dilligence early in 2018 in order to come to this decision, carefully considering the detail available with regards pros and cons of all options open to us. At the end of this process the vote, for the benefit of the future of the entire club, was unanimous. At this time we would like to express our most sincere gratitude to both the SJFA and West Region Juniors for providing the club with a fantastic platform throughout our 130 year history. Our achievements through the generations; from a Scottish Junior Cup win in 1906, to the most recent success in the Evening Times Cup in 1999, via a lifetime membership of the SJFA award for our fondly remembered long term chairman George Hunter: The Junior grade has been a fantastic home for Dunipace FC.

 

We are proud of our Junior history, but for the benefit of the club, the players (from kids through to adults) and the community we serve we have made this decision in order to ensure the club is in the best possible position to grow, improve and thrive for the next 130 years. In early 2018 the Club Executive Committee announced securing over �600,000 of investment for the Denny & Dunipace area to provide a state of the art facility that will become the new home of Dunipace FC (currently more than 250 players and growing at all levels).This has been the culmination of 8 years of hard work from the club and many partners, including: The Scottish Football Association, Falkirk Council, Sportscotland, Falkirk Community Trust, our local elected members; Cllr Paul Garner, Michael Mathieson MSP and John McNally MSP, and our local community.

 We will soon begin work on upgrading the surface, installing floodlights and a perimeter fence and providing new changing facilities that meet all the standards required of the partner organisations. This will mean that for the first time the whole club can have a single base to operate from with a quality surface that will allow ALL teams to train and play games. It will provide a hub of activity for the community with additional plans for an updated club room, enclosure and improved access already well underway. It will allow us to add over 35's, community programs and more, all from our own purpose built facility, all year round.

With the huge amount of effort put in by everyone at the club over the last decade through our Quality Mark commitment we have put in place strong, inclusive and comprehensive supporting policies and procedures. The creation of this facility, aligned with this work, means SFA Licensing which once seemed unattainable is now a realistic goal for the club to work towards. We aim to work towards achieving Entry Level Licensing through 2018/19 with a view to having this in place for season 2019/20, where if successful Dunipace FC would, for the first time in our history, be eligible to participate in the Senior Scottish Cup. Our commitment to Licensing requires a commitment to the Pyramid and was a factor in the decision to make this move.

Another major factor was access to an Under 20 Development league, as run by the East of Scotland league in conjunction with the South and Lowland leagues. Giving kids coming to the end of the community pathway a route into Senior football, via an established development pathway, will be a great addition to the structure at the club. Developing young players through the age groups and seeing them regularly pull on the black and white of the 'Pace First Team is the ambition of everyone connected with the club and this is another tool which will aid in that objective, better serving our local community in the process.

We are working hard to make this a reality for season 2018/19 and hope to have a new and exciting partnership to announce on this front in the coming weeks, subject to the decision on our application by the EoS League and FA. With many other clubs also deciding that this is the right time to apply to become members of the Senior game, it means, if accepted as we hope, we will be moving to a superbly run, competitive league, with great facilities and a number of interesting games that we hope, along with a welcoming and upgraded facility, will peak the interest of the local community.

No prospective game more-so than the potential local (friendly!) derby against our closest neighbours Camelon Juniors, who have also recently announced their application. This is a game that, despite our proximity of only a few miles, has rarely been played competitively but could be on the fixture list come June when the full season fixtures are announced.

Given the speculation over recent weeks we felt it only right that we make this information available at this time. We hope that everyone connected with Dunipace FC, Denny, Dunipace and our wider community can understand our reasons for making this decision and, if we are successful on Thursday, will support the 'Pace as we embark on a new journey. A journey which will hopefully provide youngsters in and around the town a pathway from kids right through to Senior football without leaving the Denny and Dunipace area.

Saturday's game versus Ashfield marked both the last home game on Grass and if our application is successful on Thursday, last home game as a Junior club. Thanks to those who came down to Westfield to support the team. Youth section players attended and had a photograph taken with the first team and this was great to see. We hope the work being done behind the scenes captures your imagination and we can welcome you all regularly on our journey long into the future.

We look forward to a new and exciting future for the club and everyone around it.

Well done to all involved!

Class statement. Obvious the people involved in all the great work going on have a love for their club and are keen to see it prosper on and off the pitch . Exciting times ahead for the club and local community it seems.  The very best of luck to all involved.

[LongTimeLurker]

11 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

Since when were Junior clubs allowed to apply for licences?

They always have been and clubs like Bonnyrigg Rose and Auchinleck Talbot are known to have engaged with the process. The only stumbling block has been that when Linlithgow Rose and Banks o' Dee proceeded to do it entry into the EoS or SoS was added as an extra requirement where junior clubs in the LL catchment were concerned and this put most clubs off from going all the way to entry level and full membership until Kelty Hearts broke the logjam last summer. It's not clear whether the moratorium applies to all clubs as it is being interpreted on here rather than just junior clubs. The last thing the existing SFA full members probably want is up to 160  SJFA members all trying to become full members simultaneously as the tier 6 entry that Tom Johnston implied was happening in 2018/19 would have made possible. I strongly suspect that the moratorium is only an issue for clubs that stay in the SJFA and that it won't affect non-licensed EoS and SoS members that are in the senior grade's pyramid next season.

Edited April 25, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[Dev]

11 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It would appear to be a turn of phrase that has thrown people off. LTHV presumably have an ongoing application still going through the compliance phase, while Blackburn & Dalkieth will now begin their compliance phase.

Yes that's right:

Finally they considered two requests for Scottish FA membership applications both of which were accepted and have now been referred to the licensing administration to progress in the normal course.

........so that means there's an intermediate category for Registered Members on their way to Full Membership as explained by Burnie.

It was posted that there was to be a meeting of the Licencing Committee on Monday 23rd April. There have been posts which strongly suggested that LTHV were hoping to gain their Licence so that they could accept promotion if they win the EoS. They and Heriot Watt Uni have been carrying out ground works/improvements and so would seem to be natural candidates for Club Licences (?). Apparently, according to the SFA regs the SFA has three days, after the Licencing Committee meets and decides upon applications, to notify the clubs in writing, so more should be known tomorrow - unless there was no 23rd April meeting! That would have implications for promotion to the Lowland League if LTHV win the EoS.

According to posts here there may be lots of clubs which have already been accepted into the "intermediate" stage, heading for Full Membership. It would be interesting and very revealing to see just how many clubs and which clubs which have been accepted into the process of gaining Full Membership. Existing Full Member clubs and Associations/Leagues would be entitled to access to SFA Minutes so perhaps there's someone who can answer these questions. Perhaps this also explains the SJFA's "panic" and the wording of the SFA email:

Given the ongoing uncertainty around finding a pyramid solution to bring the Juniors into the fold and the number of junior members that appear to be leaving without knowing what the pyramid solution is, it was agreed unanimously by the Scottish FA Board that it would not take any more membership applications until such time as this matter is resolved.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Dev

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Yes that's right:

Finally they considered two requests for Scottish FA membership applications both of which were accepted and have now been referred to the licensing administration to progress in the normal course.

........so that means there's an intermediate category for Registered Members on their way to Full Membership as explained by Burnie.

It was posted that there was to be a meeting of the Licencing Committee on Monday 23rd April. There have been posts which strongly suggested that LTHV were hoping to gain their Licence so that they could accept promotion if they win the EoS. They and Heriot Watt Uni have been carrying out ground works/improvements and so would seem to be natural candidates for Club Licences (?). Apparently, according to the SFA regs the SFA has three days, after the Licencing Committee meets and decides upon applications, to notify the clubs in writing, so more should be known tomorrow - unless there was no 23rd April meeting! That would have implications for promotion to the Lowland League if LTHV win the EoS.

According to posts here there may be lots of clubs which have already been accepted into the "intermediate" stage, heading for Full Membership. It would be interesting and very revealing to see just how many clubs and which clubs which have been accepted into the process of gaining Full Membership. Existing Full Member clubs and Associations/Leagues would be entitled to access to SFA Minutes so perhaps there's someone who can answer these questions. Perhaps this also explains the SJFA's "panic" and the wording of the SFA email:

Given the ongoing uncertainty around finding a pyramid solution to bring the Juniors into the fold and the number of junior members that appear to be leaving without knowing what the pyramid solution is, it was agreed unanimously by the Scottish FA Board that it would not take any more membership applications until such time as this matter is resolved.

I saw on Twitter not sure if someone' mis ake but someone congratulated LTHV for getting licence so unsure

[Ginaro]

21 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

I saw on Twitter not sure if someone' mis ake but someone congratulated LTHV for getting licence so unsure

 

[Burnie_man]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

They always have been and clubs like Bonnyrigg Rose and Auchinleck Talbot are known to have engaged with the process. The only stumbling block has been that when Linlithgow Rose and Banks o' Dee proceeded to do it entry into the EoS or SoS was added as an extra requirement where junior clubs in the LL catchment were concerned and this put most clubs off from going all the way to entry level and full membership until Kelty Hearts broke the logjam last summer. It's not clear whether the moratorium applies to all clubs as it is being interpreted on here rather than just junior clubs. The last thing the existing SFA full members probably want is up to 160  SJFA members all trying to become full members simultaneously as the tier 6 entry that Tom Johnston implied was happening in 2018/19 would have made possible. I strongly suspect that the moratorium is only an issue for clubs that stay in the SJFA and that it won't affect non-licensed EoS and SoS members that are in the senior grade's pyramid next season.

I'm still not exactly clear why they would stop the other new EoS clubs (once they are accepted tomorrow night) from applying. Come June they'll be in the Pyramid, they'll have left the SJFA, so why not let them apply?

[th1stleandr0se]

23 hours ago, Baxter's Nutmeg said:

There is nobody to blame here other the TJ. It was through  his arrogance that he quickly dismissed the notion of the Juniors joining the LL when it was set up. This has all came back to bite him, and the grade, on the backside. He cannot now expect the same people he snubbed to now roll over and give him what we he wants.

I heard from someone who was in on the original LL discussions that TJ threatened that any Juniors applying to join would have nowhere to come back to if the LL didn't happen or failed.  Does he really have that sort of personal power over the clubs?

Edited April 25, 2018 by th1stleandr0se
spelling

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, th1stleandr0se said:

I heard from someone who was in on the original LL discussions that TJ threatened that any Juniors applying to join would have nowhere to come back to if the LL didn't happen or failed.  Does he really have that sort of personal power over the clubs?

The implication was that any Junior club leaving for the LL would have to re-join at the bottom if they were relegated.

Decisions like that need to be taken at an EGM or AGM, just like the current scenario where he is going to be entering negotiations with the Pyramid Working Group without any consensus from member clubs beyond survey results which were mixed.  Nobody knows what he's going to be negotiating on other than suggestions its "tier 6 at least".

[cmontheloknow]

5 minutes ago, th1stleandr0se said:

I heard from someone who was in on the original LL discussions that TJ threatened that any Juniors applying to join would have nowhere to come back to if the LL didn't happen or failed.  Does he really have that sort of personal power over the clubs?

One thing I remember from around the time was the question mark over where the departees would go if they returned. Let's take Kelty as an example. Say they don't go up this year and decide it's all been a huge mistake and reapply to the ERSJFA. Would they come back into thee Superleague or would they be demoted and have to rejoin at the bottom of the pile? This question has never been answered but there is a feeling at some clubs they (and others like them) should go into to the bottom division. That kind of uncertainty and vindictiveness would put clubs off. Relegation didn't kill Pollok but another year or two down and it might have done.

[Jason King]

If Kelty did decide to come back then its logical they start at the bottom as they would in effect be a new member of the East Region and they would have to cut their cloth accordingly.

However logic merely allows one to be wrong with some authority.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm still not exactly clear why they would stop the other new EoS clubs (once they are accepted tomorrow night) from applying. Come June they'll be in the Pyramid, they'll have left the SJFA, so why not let them apply?

I strongly suspect that the moratorium only applies to junior clubs until the method of pyramid integration gets sorted out and teams that get accepted into the EoS tomorrow night would be treated like any other EoS or SoS team would be once they are members of one of those leagues, because they would be part of the senior grade pyramid at that point.

[cmontheloknow]

9 minutes ago, Jason King said:

If Kelty did decide to come back then its logical they start at the bottom as they would in effect be a new member of the East Region and they would have to cut their cloth accordingly.

However logic merely allows one to be wrong with some authority.

Which is why clubs were hesitant to commit! Why risk a potential 4 division relegation?

[Burnie_man]

14 minutes ago, Jason King said:

If Kelty did decide to come back then its logical they start at the bottom as they would in effect be a new member of the East Region and they would have to cut their cloth accordingly.

However logic merely allows one to be wrong with some authority.

It was really aimed at lower level clubs if I recall.  The argument being made was that if for example Blackburn joined the LL back in 2013, if they were relegated they shouldn't be allowed to drop into the Superleague as they weren't at that level when they left.  You can see they never really bought into the Pyramid concept.

[Auld Heid]

It was really aimed at lower level clubs if I recall.  The argument being made was that if for example Blackburn joined the LL back in 2013, if they were relegated they shouldn't be allowed to drop into the Superleague as they weren't at that level when they left.  You can see they never really bought into the Pyramid concept.

Using the reverse of that logic and that's exactly the situation you have now.

With Blackburn jumping past divisions to join the EoS. Or Hillfield who are jumping even more divisions.

So you can understand why they would want to shut the proverbial gate to try and regain control on who applies?

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, th1stleandr0se said:

I heard from someone who was in on the original LL discussions that TJ threatened that any Juniors applying to join would have nowhere to come back to if the LL didn't happen or failed.  Does he really have that sort of personal power over the clubs?

Not if the Juniors are to join the pyramid.

For example if BSC, Stirling Uni or Cumbernauld are relegated from LL, they would presumably go into the West SL Premier, even if no club is promoted out of it.

There's plenty 'ifs, buts and mebbes' to sort out, particularly in the East.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

 

Using the reverse of that logic and that's exactly the situation you have now.

With Blackburn jumping past divisions to join the EoS. Or Hillfield who are jumping even more divisions.

So you can understand why they would want to shut the proverbial gate to try and regain control on who applies?

No, why would the EoS do that?  they are the Pyramid in the East and open to applications, Blackburn aren't jumping past anyone.

[Auld Heid]

No, why would the EoS do that?  they are the Pyramid in the East and open to applications, Blackburn aren't jumping past anyone.

I was talking SFA not EoS