Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

2 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

The big silver pole in the background of the pic immediately puts it ahead of some of our crumbling relics that pass as enclosures which wouldn't be issued with a safety certificate for much more than the 100 the LTHV cover holds.

Do you think so. There appeared to be no problem accommodating 1,800 at Lochee at the weekend - far from the best ground in the juniors.  

1,800. That's the kind of figure the EOSFL could only dream of ... for the season's total league attendance excluding Kelty.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, bluebell1 said:

Nobody else is being accepted at this time until the mess we are currently in is resolved and clear way forward agreed.  

The only mess being created is by Tom Johnston thrashing around desperately trying to save his job, which has now impacted on those clubs joining the EoS and who want to start the Licencing process.

Are Dundonald following through with their application?

[cmontheloknow]

2 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Do you think so. There appeared to be no problem accommodating 1,800 at Lochee at the weekend - far from the best ground in the juniors.  

1,800. That's the kind of figure the EOSFL could only dream of ... for the season's total league attendance excluding Kelty.

You don't need as stringent a safety certificate for the Juniors - and I was referring to covered enclosures which have different requirements to open terraces, e.g. lighting etc.

It was a Junior Cup semi so of course the crowd was elevated. Hardly a typical Junior crowd.

Edited April 24, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Khufu2]

5 minutes ago, bendan said:

The reason those teams are at tier 5 is because no junior teams wanted to join when it was set up. Now they'll have to join below, but after a few years, the better teams will have found their way up and the weaker teams will have dropped down. It's fair to say, though, that most junior teams would struggle to match LTHV on the park.

And how long will that take if only one or two diddy teams are relegated each year.  Maybe 4  down per season from the Lowland League  would speed things up.

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said:

You don't need as stringent a safety certificate for the Juniors - and I was referring to covered enclosures which have different requirements to open terraces, e.g. lighting etc.

I really don't think LTHV's enclosure needs any lighting and it doesn't appear to have any.

[santheman]

6 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

The big silver pole in the background of the pic immediately puts it ahead of some of our crumbling relics that pass as enclosures which wouldn't be issued with a safety certificate for much more than the 100 the LTHV cover holds.

I'm not comparing it to current Junior grounds though and yes, some of them are past it no denying that.

I'm just amazed that it could one day soon be an SPFL  ground. Sorry if that upsets some people.

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, Khufu2 said:

I really don't think LTHV's enclosure needs any lighting and it doesn't appear to have any.

They're not in the SPFL and are unlicenced. The stand was only built last month. 

And you seem determined to miss the point. Plenty of bigger Junior enclosures would not be granted a safety certificate for much more than a few hundred because of lack of crush barriers, signage, lighting etc.

[cmontheloknow]

10 minutes ago, santheman said:

I'm not comparing it to current Junior grounds though and yes, some of them are past it no denying that.

I'm just amazed that it could one day soon be an SPFL  ground. Sorry if that upsets some people.

But could it Sandy? The ground is as yet unlicenced. The requirements for SPFL2 clubs to only have entry ground I'm sure is to give more time to some of the smaller clubs within it to comply and get to bronze perhaps. Re: LTHV, I don't know if having seats should be a requirement for a league with an average of 490 but perhaps it will be in future.

Edit to add: only Albion Rovers do not have a Bronze ground among current SPFL members. However very few outwith SPFL have it.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/3371/club-licensing-current-update-march-2018.pdf

Edited April 24, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Khufu2]

5 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

It was a Junior Cup semi so of course the crowd was elevated. Hardly a typical Junior crowd.

How elevated do you think the crowd will be in the SFA South Region semi tomorrow night:

BSC Alloa v Edusport Academy.

Will it top three figures?

[Khufu2]

3 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

They're not in the SPFL and are unlicenced. The stand was only built last month. 

And you seem determined to miss the point. Plenty of bigger Junior enclosures would not be granted a safety certificate for much more than a few hundred because of lack of crush barriers, signage, lighting etc.

Which ones are you thinking of?

[Jason King]

 

11 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Do you think so. There appeared to be no problem accommodating 1,800 at Lochee at the weekend - far from the best ground in the juniors.  

1,800. That's the kind of figure the EOSFL could only dream of ... for the season's total league attendance excluding Kelty.

And again the same could be said of the Juniors, the game I was at on Saturday had an attendance of around 60 (if that) for a promotion push game. If clubs cant get people through the door for vital games like that then even you can surely see that the game is a bogey and clubs have to look for other funding streams.

[cmontheloknow]

2 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Which ones are you thinking of?

Any that do not have lighting, signage, clear markings, disabled access etc... It's most!

Edited April 24, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[JakeSAFC]

It's not derision to point out that this is the future of tier 5 in the southern 80% of Scotland,  the way the pyramid is currently constructed. A  team with hardly any fans, and very basic facilities to add to the other teams with no fans who flit about from ground to ground, from town to town in order to participate at this level.  
It is ludicrous that the top junior clubs are being expected to be placed below this kind of stuff and on a par with glorified amateur teams playing glorified parks football. 

You had your chance to join and never took it. So these "glorified amateur teams" took their chance and are now benefiting from it. Whereas the juniors are not. Unlucky champ.

[Jason King]

3 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

How elevated do you think the crowd will be in the SFA South Region semi tomorrow night:

BSC Alloa v Edusport Academy.

Will it top three figures?

Again - most Junior games tomorrow and Saturday will struggle to  3 figures. Can we please have your derision for these clubs and this "grade"? Just so we don't all think you are against progress of any sort.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

31 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

It's not derision to point out that this is the future of tier 5 in the southern 80% of Scotland,  the way the pyramid is currently constructed. A  team with hardly any fans, and very basic facilities to add to the other teams with no fans who flit about from ground to ground, from town to town in order to participate at this level.  

It is ludicrous that the top junior clubs are being expected to be placed below this kind of stuff and on a par with glorified amateur teams playing glorified parks football. 

Maybe they should have joined when they had the chance then, but due to a lack of foresight from the Junior leadership it didn’t come to pass. We now have TJ scrambling about trying to save his skin and that of  the grade.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Baxter's Nutmeg

[cmontheloknow]

When it comes to crowds, I guess you have to discount the opinions on Talbot, Lok fans etc in West because we're seeing a different story. Big numbers follow these clubs H&A - it's a bit like the old joke about theQueen thinking the outside world smells of fresh paint.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

8 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

How elevated do you think the crowd will be in the SFA South Region semi tomorrow night:

BSC Alloa v Edusport Academy.

Will it top three figures?

Your  fascination with crowd figures is no more than a diversion tactic. I think you grossly over estimate the crowds at lower league junior games.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

8 hours ago, Truthteller said:

Having just looked at the EOS forum the EOS league should really be called "the greedy b *****d league"

when these charlatan junior teams leave the east region and eventually go we should have a party.

The only team with a genuine reason to go is Bonnyrigg, the majority are either hanging on to Bonnyrigg's coat tails, trying to avoid relegation to the south division, jumping for financial reasons, or trying to jump up 2 leagues because that's the only way they can progress.

Better off without them.

 

1 hour ago, Khufu2 said:

Well it's hardly Newlandsfield or Beechwood Park (x2) or Meadow Park or New Victoria Park or Newtown Park  is it?

OOOAFFTT! Hell hath no fury like a Juniors fan scorned it seems.

 

Been watching and greatly appreciating this thread for a while now, thank you to all contributors, it's really interesting.

It's long been something I've looked for, the unification of the non-league game. It appears we're finally getting closer to that, although the devil will be in the detail, no doubt. I was glad to read the letter from the SFA chap last night confirming it's high on their 'to do' list. 

All this chat about a juniors 'grade' is absolute gunk though. You're just fitba teams. Same as mine, same as EoS, same as everyone else. You represent your communities proudly and will continue to do so in whatever new format exists. Time for a deep breath and sitting down with the SFA and other leagues to work out the best (it will not be perfect) future, because to this outsider, your current road appears to only lead to nowhere.

[Khufu2]

6 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Again - most Junior games tomorrow and Saturday will struggle to  3 figures. Can we please have your derision for these clubs and this "grade"? Just so we don't all think you are against progress of any sort.

I'm fully in favour of a pyramid. A pyramid with the top clubs at the top and the poorest at the bottom. There are people here who want the reverse. They want to make the pyramid a laughing stock.

[Ross.]

1 minute ago, Khufu2 said:

I'm fully in favour of a pyramid. A pyramid with the top clubs at the top and the poorest at the bottom. There are people here who want the reverse. They want to make the pyramid a laughing stock.

Who here has stated that they want Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Kilmarnock and Hearts at the bottom of the pyramid?