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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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what I am trying to say is we cannot compete at 2pm  so move the kick off to 2-30 or 3pm as the wee  meerkat says simples

So what was the excuse when it was 3kos.

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There needs to be a substantial discussion with clubs about what they want the future to be. There is a lot of conjecture but not a lot of discussion about what direction the clubs want. Unless the SJFA management committee start a proper discussion with clubs, Kelty will not be the last club to leave and in fact if the Lowland League West idea takes off then there is the potential that west region clubs will upsticks and leave.

I agree that we need to find a way to get new blood onto committee and into fan bases but many clubs need to do a better job interacting with their communities. The SJFA should be helping clubs do this. They can help clubs better interact with local authorities, provide support to the clubs to help them achieve their goals. At the moment the question has to be asked with clubs putting money into the SJFA what do clubs receive in return.

I recommend that Arthurlie start looking into club licensing several year ago but due to a lack of available funding found it was a non starter but for clubs who can or have reached the criteria set forward it may become more appealing to clubs to move across, especially if Kelty are successful.

Junior football must adapt or die and for me there are several key issues:

1. Improve stadium and ground (including funding support of some variety)
2. Undertake review of kick off times and standardise them across the 3 regions
3. Replicate structures across 3 regions (where possible)
4. Assist clubs to work with other local youth teams to create community clubs
5. Fixture lists and better structure of the season
6. Bring in "junior" club licensing

At the end of the day the clubs dictate the direction of the SJFA and the regions and the clubs must get together away from management committees and agree a way forward and then provide a united front at Agms etc to drive through change hence doing away with the divide and conquer approach that is sometimes used at meetings. A good example of this is the work done by the clubs on the restructuring plan for the the west region. Sorry for the long post folks and hope it makes some sense.

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That's great, so change it. You can do that this month if you want at the AGM.
This discussion is more about the long term future of the Junior game, and the reality that is the pyramid.

I'm only a humble fan albeit 1 that runs our twitter & Facebook pages . Think this West agm will have more important issues than ko times

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6 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

At the end of the day the clubs dictate the direction of the SJFA and the regions and the clubs must get together away from management committees and agree a way forward and then provide a united front at Agms etc to drive through change hence doing away with the divide and conquer approach that is sometimes used at meetings. A good example of this is the work done by the clubs on the restructuring plan for the the west region. Sorry for the long post folks and hope it makes some sense.

Spot on.

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Guys, This is just my opinion on this but Iv the feeling the SFA arent looking to encourage SJFA clubs to be part of the pyramid and licencing as an association, it might be a case of they had their chance and they missed it. If the SJFA can possibly get moving then they will be sure to be below the Lowland League and the EOS and SOS Leagues.

As per our application we were told there is a pyramid system in place going to tier 6, any Junior club wishing to move forward with the licence and pyramid will be asked to join tier 6 otherwise the SFA board wont approve the application. I think they are looking to push any interested clubs through these leagues as opposed to welcoming the SJFA and their leagues into the pyramid.

If East & West SJFA clubs were to join the current pyramid enmasse then you would think once the 2 leagues in tier 6 went to 16-18 clubs then another division would be formed below the EOS and SOS League making it tier 7, not ideal for West clubs but in time it would sort itself out. As we put on our statement if clubs do their research and feel it's for them then the EOS, SOS and LL could become very competitive.

If the SJFA plan to embrace the future then even if it does happen in 2/3 years down the line clubs could be as far down as tier 8 or 9. We feel the Lowland League will be the premier non league division in Scotland, teams dropping out SPFL and teams working their way up, the rewards for success and organisation in the Lowland League are already in place. Full Fixture List, u20 League, SFA Members, Scottish Cup, Betfred Cup for the winner, Irn Bru Cup for top 4, Play under lights, potential promotion to SPFL etc. What's not to get excited about.

Remember this is only my opinion on how things may go.

Edited by kefc

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5 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Kelty moving is not quite like Bo'ness or Linlithgow. They are a good club, but not really a big one. Hopefully it doesn't lead to a trickle of defectors, but is seen as significant enough to prompt real discussion about progress. I  also see the SPFL is consulting clubs about reserve teams in the pyramid. I wonder if by offering to accommodate this, a 3 region pyramid could be negotiated. Not ideal, but it is a compromise.

compared to Lithgae, Bo'ness and Talbot the mighty City were a diddy wee club. Now we're a diddy wee SPFL club and get to look down on you Junior peasants (for the time being... :whistle)

some suggestions from your jaded observer:

1) shorten the season. The Junior Cup final should be the end of season finale and a glorious day out it is (quite enjoyed last week's game). Football shouldn't be going on into the 2nd week of June. Whether this is achieved by use of floodlights, cutting down on the number of cups played for or any other answer is a matter for you guys. There used to be a rule in the East of Scotland League where clubs could refuse to play under opponents' floodlights but the more progressive clubs voted this out at an AGM about 20 years ago. This meant that midweek games were played sometimes from January onwards instead of having to wait for the clocks to go forward and the season could be finished by mid-May. Or more radically

2) switch to a summer season. Say February - November. During the Seniors' close season you could pick up fans desperate for a football fix. 

3) have some sort of Juniors affiliated U20s leagues- you could make them regional like the old Juniors regions- Ayrshire, Central, Fife etc. I heard that there is a contract existing where you can play for a youth team and be signed to a Juniors team but again, the experience of the East of Scotland League was that originally an U19s league was set up allowing players to play for club's u19s teams but could be drafted into to play for the first team if required (an affiliated league was really required to comply with SFA registration rules). Burnie's club Blackburn have a good set up in terms of youth teams and more Junior clubs seem to be going down the community club route but I am sometimes unclear as to where youth teams using a Junior club's name fit in with the main club. 

4) merge Talbot and Cumnock to form an all conquering Ayrshire team to rival Killie and Ayr. Naw, I'm only joking with that one! :lol:

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This I think could bring about a Lowland League restructure if the go ahead is given.  I cannot see OF colt teams starting in the South of Scotland League, it may bring about the much talked about LL West.

https://stv.tv/sport/football/1390847-spfl-clubs-asked-for-views-on-introduction-of-colts/

Let's not get bogged down in the rights or wrongs of Colt teams in the pyramid.

 

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2 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

3) have some sort of Juniors affiliated U20s leagues- you could make them regional like the old Juniors regions- Ayrshire, Central, Fife etc. I heard that there is a contract existing where you can play for a youth team and be signed to a Juniors team but again, the experience of the East of Scotland League was that originally an U19s league was set up allowing players to play for club's u19s teams but could be drafted into to play for the first team if required (an affiliated league was really required to comply with SFA registration rules). Burnie's club Blackburn have a good set up in terms of youth teams and more Junior clubs seem to be going down the community club route but I am sometimes unclear as to where youth teams using a Junior club's name fit in with the main club.

To pick up on that point, we have had U19 and U21 players on joint contracts, in fact a couple of our U19's made brief appearances last season in the Junior team. I'm sure other clubs have used this rule.

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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

This I think could bring about a Lowland League restructure if the go ahead is given.  I cannot see OF colt teams starting in the South of Scotland League, it may bring about the much talked about LL West.

https://stv.tv/sport/football/1390847-spfl-clubs-asked-for-views-on-introduction-of-colts/

Let's not get bogged down in the rights or wrongs of Colt teams in the pyramid.

 

I'm not sure it will happen unless forced through by Big Brother SFA. I don't think LL clubs would be entirely enamoured about having Colts clubs in the set-up- Berwick Rangers Reserves tended to play hokey-cokey with the EOSL and Hibs Colts most recent incarnation only lasted a season. The history of Colts teams in the EOSL was that they weren't a permanent fixture. 

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Just now, tamthebam said:

compared to Lithgae, Bo'ness and Talbot the mighty City were a diddy wee club. Now we're a diddy wee SPFL club and get to look down on you Junior peasants (for the time being... :whistle)

some suggestions from your jaded observer:

1) shorten the season. The Junior Cup final should be the end of season finale and a glorious day out it is (quite enjoyed last week's game). Football shouldn't be going on into the 2nd week of June. Whether this is achieved by use of floodlights, cutting down on the number of cups played for or any other answer is a matter for you guys. There used to be a rule in the East of Scotland League where clubs could refuse to play under opponents' floodlights but the more progressive clubs voted this out at an AGM about 20 years ago. This meant that midweek games were played sometimes from January onwards instead of having to wait for the clocks to go forward and the season could be finished by mid-May. Or more radically

2) switch to a summer season. Say February - November. During the Seniors' close season you could pick up fans desperate for a football fix. 

3) have some sort of Juniors affiliated U20s leagues- you could make them regional like the old Juniors regions- Ayrshire, Central, Fife etc. I heard that there is a contract existing where you can play for a youth team and be signed to a Juniors team but again, the experience of the East of Scotland League was that originally an U19s league was set up allowing players to play for club's u19s teams but could be drafted into to play for the first team if required (an affiliated league was really required to comply with SFA registration rules). Burnie's club Blackburn have a good set up in terms of youth teams and more Junior clubs seem to be going down the community club route but I am sometimes unclear as to where youth teams using a Junior club's name fit in with the main club. 

4) merge Talbot and Cumnock to form an all conquering Ayrshire team to rival Killie and Ayr. Naw, I'm only joking with that one! :lol:

I've suggested a summer season before, if Juniors insist on going down the "alternative" to the pyramid/senior route.

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1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I've suggested a summer season before, if Juniors insist on going down the "alternative" to the pyramid/senior route.

might go against your team though- there's never any summer in Shotts! :lol:

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1 minute ago, tamthebam said:

I'm not sure it will happen unless forced through by Big Brother SFA. I don't think LL clubs would be entirely enamoured about having Colts clubs in the set-up- Berwick Rangers Reserves tended to play hokey-cokey with the EOSL and Hibs Colts most recent incarnation only lasted a season. The history of Colts teams in the EOSL was that they weren't a permanent fixture. 

I think you're only looking at Celtic and Rangers initially anyway, maybe Hearts and Hibs but I don't think the latter two are keen to invest the funds required to run a proper full-time Colts set-up at the moment.

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Just now, Burnie_man said:

To pick up on that point, we have had U19 and U21 players on joint contracts, in fact a couple of our U19's made brief appearances last season in the Junior team. I'm sure other clubs have used this rule.

Stop stealing all my ideas. I've already mentioned reserves (I won't use the c word ).

England already has a dual registration system we could use if there was integration.

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Just now, tamthebam said:

might go against your team though- there's never any summer in Shotts! :lol:

They could play 30 games during the marching season in Harthill.

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22 minutes ago, kefc said:

Guys, This is just my opinion on this but Iv the feeling the SFA arent looking to encourage SJFA clubs to be part of the pyramid and licencing as an association, it might be a case of they had their chance and they missed it. If the SJFA can possibly get moving then they will be sure to be below the Lowland League and the EOS and SOS Leagues.

As per our application we were told there is a pyramid system in place going to tier 6, any Junior club wishing to move forward with the licence and pyramid will be asked to join tier 6 otherwise the SFA board wont approve the application. I think they are looking to push any interested clubs through these leagues as opposed to welcoming the SJFA and their leagues into the pyramid.

 

I think a lot of that is born of the SJFA not speaking to the SFA on these matters with any serious intentions. All they hear is TJ banging on about this and that and why Junior clubs are not interested.

Things change, the SFA/SPFL are talking Colt teams, if the SJFA or a block of clubs engaged with the SFA with serious intentions of integrating then the structure IMO would change to accomodate. The absence of a West of Scotland senior league is glaring example of the flaws in the system which needs addressed.

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10 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Kelty moving is not quite like Bo'ness or Linlithgow. They are a good club, but not really a big one. Hopefully it doesn't lead to a trickle of defectors, but is seen as significant enough to prompt real discussion about progress. I  also see the SPFL is consulting clubs about reserve teams in the pyramid. I wonder if by offering to accommodate this, a 3 region pyramid could be negotiated. Not ideal, but it is a compromise.

Your bait didn't quite work

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11 hours ago, glensmad said:

But not the leagues below which feed into the West Prem ? How does that work ?

They don't need to be, or do I really need to explain that to you as it's fairly obvious

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4 hours ago, The chassis said:

Your bait didn't quite work

It wasn't bait. Lower Division SPFL clubs are not likely to approve reserves inclusion. Apparently they also favour a 2 region feeder. The big clubs want them included, so that suggestion might work. I don't like it, but the west region is out on a limb and they won't be invited to be 3rd feeder as things stand. 

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On ‎09‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 23:15, Burnie_man said:

I think you're only looking at Celtic and Rangers initially anyway, maybe Hearts and Hibs but I don't think the latter two are keen to invest the funds required to run a proper full-time Colts set-up at the moment.

It was suggested in the media that Colt teams would start at HL / LL level, bypassing EoS and SoS.

That may scupper the chance of the LL being reformed into East/West. Early days yet.

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Kelty have made the jump to get into the SPFL in the near future I presume.

That being the case I wonder how they'll feel if Rangers,Celtic,Hearts and Hibs U20s get dropped into the LL?

I read that these U20 teams can go as high as League 1.I hope someone at Kelty has very deep pockets!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bankies Alive

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