Junior football, what is the future?

[Black Pennel]

Maybe the gentleman of the meedja were asking him specifically about the reports of Dunipace moving eastwards and, apparently, another club potentially moving in a westerly direction ?

[Killiepiyo]

I know some were commenting about “the silence” on the matter and made me wonder if the 12 month notice thing was why?

Edited June 8, 2018 by Killiepiyo

[Vollyman]

533 pages noo, apologies if I’m covering old ground it was just I read the article recently. 7th of June. "Clubs must give a period of 12 months to leave and we have reminded them of this.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/scotland/44400053?__twitter_impression=true
The SJFA AGM in 2016 passed a rule requiring 12 months notice to be given by a club moving to another region within junior football the reason for this was Montrose Roselea left the East region at short notice to join the North region. There is no rule regarding clubs leaving junior football. TJ is wrong in making these statements


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[Stag Nation]

16 minutes ago, RobM said:

Unsurprisingly no, are you suggesting that the Junior game has no place in the games' history in Scotland?

No, just trying to define what that place is.

[parkcircus]

There can't be a rule as the it would also have to be agreed by all national associations, ie UEFA and the SJFA arn't in UEFA

[RobM]

17 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

No, just trying to define what that place is.

One that has helped develop Kenny Dalglish. Pat Crerand, Dave Mackay among many others.

Think it deserves a nod as the game moves forward, no problem with change but we don't need to do that while moving on and denying the game's history.

 

[Stag Nation]

13 minutes ago, RobM said:

One that has helped develop Kenny Dalglish. Pat Crerand, Dave Mackay among many others.

Think it deserves a nod as the game moves forward, no problem with change but we don't need to do that while moving on and denying the game's history.

 

The discussion was about the Junior Cup, not the entire set-up.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 hours ago, Killiepiyo said:

If clubs require a year notice, could they effectively be barred from playing for a season if they go ahead and leave anyway?

 

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Clubs do not require to give a years notice.

You only need to prefix your team name with 'The' to join any Scottish League.

[GordonS]

7 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

So we have the non-league clubs to thank for our national team's dismal performance over the last xxx years?

I'd say they share the blame, along with everyone else, especially those in charge of school and youth football. We have a ridiculous focus on 11-a-sides from far too young, we play too many matches and train not nearly enough, and worst of all, we are waaaaaay behind on learning technique, instead forcing kids to concentrate on positional discipline, and on not making mistakes.

By number of players, clubs and fans, amount of income generated and resources available, all the British and Irish nations have underachieved horribly for decades (Wales and Norn Irn's recent fun notwithstanding). England are by far the biggest underachievers of the big footballing nations, and we're just the same among our peers. Everyone in Scottish football has been responsible for that.

[Junior_Arab]

Statement from Carnoustie:

 

https://www.thegowfers.com/its-time-to-move-on-says-general-manager/

Meeting next week to discuss arrangements for those left behind. 

[RobM]

16 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

The discussion was about the Junior Cup, not the entire set-up.

I was suggesting that under a new nationwide tournament all teams may compete for the trophy to acknowledge and retain the history of the juniors with all codes competing for it.

Pyramid isn't going to be stopped, rightly, but what issue do you see in continuing the history of this trophy even with revision of the set-up to reflect the new position?  The junior game is  dying, do you want that we don't acknowledge it's history and how important it's been in the Scottish game?

Just throwing it out there as an idea.  If you want to get into the tedious detail of it it should be recognised that I'm only a fan of the game and have little or no influence.

Edited June 8, 2018 by RobM

[LongTimeLurker]

Most relevant bit of Carnoustie's statement to this thread:

“I am really disappointed that a large number of clubs have decided to leave the Juniors, we as a club voted in favour of the Juniors being part of the pyramid but never wanted it to lead to the mass departures that have occurred. We had been told at an early stage that because we were part of the East Region we would be able to follow the planned Junior pathway in to the pyramid. However, that would have needed the SFA to move the border between the Lowland League and Highland League at that isn’t going to happen so should we look to progress through the pyramid then we would have to follow the Highland League route,  had we even considered the EOSL route like the defecting clubs it was never a viable option ”

So they appear to have been led to believe by the SJFA that they could be part of the east superleague at tier 6 feeding into the LL by 2019/20, but now realise that was a mirage. Not engaging with the process five years ago when these issues were being decided has left the Tayside clubs in limbo.

[ShrimpLok]

Also Carnoustie seem to think there are 37 teams left in East Region. Not sure if they’ve miscounted or if there are any late Tayside applicants to the ERJFA?

[Stag Nation]

10 minutes ago, RobM said:

I was suggesting that under a new nationwide tournament all teams may compete for the trophy to acknowledge and retain the history of the juniors with all codes competing for it.

Pyramid isn't going to be stopped, rightly, but what issue do you see in continuing the history of this trophy even with revision of the set-up to reflect the new position?  The junior game is  dying, do you want that we don't acknowledge it's history and how important it's been in the Scottish game?

Just throwing it out there as an idea.  If you want to get into the tedious detail of it it should be recognised that I'm only a fan of the game and have little or no influence.

I see no issues at all with continuing the Junior Cup and widening it to all non-league clubs. I was merely questioning another poster's  reference to "its place in the game", and my question was "Do you mean almost entirely ignored by the media , and indeed everyone outside the Junior community? "

That question still stands. And what do you mean by "... how important it's been in the Scottish game"? I'd suggest it has been of negligible importance, if any, to the wider game.

[RobM]

15 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

I see no issues at all with continuing the Junior Cup and widening it to all non-league clubs. I was merely questioning another poster's  reference to "its place in the game", and my question was "Do you mean almost entirely ignored by the media , and indeed everyone outside the Junior community? "

That question still stands. And what do you mean by "... how important it's been in the Scottish game"? I'd suggest it has been of negligible importance, if any, to the wider game.

That was me, not another poster.  If you want to get into the tedious literary nature of it I'll call it the game's  history.  It would need to be asked if the importance was negligible given that many senior internationalists have come through the junior game and that the pyramid has only really gathered pace with the en-bloc movement of junior clubs.

The code is dying but there would be no harm in retaining what was a healthy tournament which also acknowledges what went before.

Being ignored by the media is something that pretty much applies to anything non Old-Squirm, Ross County being an example (unless you're home to  one of them).

[HTG]

8 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Clearly non-licenced clubs can't join the Highland League. I don't see what's stopping them getting a licence in their current league: the SFA want 'commitment to the pyramid', but there's no pyramid division below the Highland League in the North (yet). It needs someone to try it, or get an opinion from the SFA.

It's pretty obvious from the situation in the south that you're simply not going to get licenced in the juniors. Therefore a Highland tier 6 needs sorted now. Clubs can then become licenced and until they are there won't be relegation. But to say that clubs can "apply" isn't a pyramid - it's the same process the SPFL used pre-pyramid. Not good enough. 

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, RobM said:

That was me, not another poster.  If you want to get into the tedious literary nature of it I'll call it the game's  history.  It would need to be asked if the importance was negligible given that many senior internationalists have come through the junior game and that the pyramid has only really gathered pace with the en-bloc movement of junior clubs.

The code is dying but there would be no harm in retaining what was a healthy tournament which also acknowledges what went before.

Being ignored by the media is something that pretty much applies to anything non Old-Squirm, Ross County being an example (unless you're home to  one of them).

If you take a look in the Highland League forum and the thread regarding a new national cup comp, it would be hard enough to get all clubs to buy into it, let alone buy into something called the Junior Cup.  I think it should be allowed to slip into history and allow a new replacement.

[Burnie_man]

52 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Most relevant bit of Carnoustie's statement to this thread:

“I am really disappointed that a large number of clubs have decided to leave the Juniors, we as a club voted in favour of the Juniors being part of the pyramid but never wanted it to lead to the mass departures that have occurred. We had been told at an early stage that because we were part of the East Region we would be able to follow the planned Junior pathway in to the pyramid. However, that would have needed the SFA to move the border between the Lowland League and Highland League at that isn’t going to happen so should we look to progress through the pyramid then we would have to follow the Highland League route,  had we even considered the EOSL route like the defecting clubs it was never a viable option ”

So they appear to have been led to believe by the SJFA that they could be part of the east superleague at tier 6 feeding into the LL by 2019/20, but now realise that was a mirage. Not engaging with the process five years ago when these issues were being decided has left the Tayside clubs in limbo.

"Defecting clubs"

No sympathy for any club who swalled the pish coming from TJ & Co, although I have a certain sympthy for Tayside clubs above the boundary line who are in a difficult position. 

[stanley]

4 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Rearrange these words to create a well known phrase or saying - houses, stones, people, glass, shouldn't, in, throw.

Not sure if you think you are agreeing with me or not but your post is exactly the point I was making.   That type of crazy rule exists in both the juniors and the Scottish Premier (just that the details are different).

4 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Which club is this?

Typo on my phone.  Was supposed to say clubs.  It's open to all clubs but was clearly set up for the sake of two.

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

I'm talking about grassroots in general including, but not only, the juniors.  I think professional football is absolutely dependent to a significant extent on grassroots. I'm surprised to read that another football fan thinks that is "bollocks". The more grassroots teams and leagues there are, the more opportunities there are for people to play the game at an organized level. Pyramid or not, that means more playing the game and a bigger talent pool which ultimately benefits professional clubs and the national team.

Except that this is not how modern football works at all. The overwhelming majority of players who have the potential to play at high club or international level are hoovered into professional club academies from a very young age - those who make it at the top level from the Scottish game have always spent time at a national club; about 95% of all players in the national leagues consist of those who were once on the books at these academies and punted. And the strongest junior clubs have squads whose key players were in turn punted from national senior clubs.

It's a top-down rather than bottom-up process and so your point is invalid. 

Quote

I've never watched Port Glasgow juniors but I doubt they deserve to be described as dross, regardless of their performance. Just by existing they are offering at least some kind of football to the people in their community. Cumulatively, the little guys have their role to play in the bigger scheme of things. 

They are indeed dross and in fact offer relatively little to the community; indeed they regularly don't even bother to pay their rent to the local council and then whine to the local paper about how hard done to they are. But that's beside the point that you bizarrely seem to think that they and their ilk are the cornerstone of the game in Scotland, when in fact it would carry on absolutely fine with or without them.