Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, drs said:

You seem upset

 

 

 

You seem a bit dim.

Far from being upset,  I’m happy that the chancers haven’t got away with it. If, as seems, likely, all the big teams in the Lothians move across now they will progress more quickly to where they should be - tier 5. They won’t be blocked by  mediocrity like Blackburn Utd and Dalkeith.  I sincerely hope these teams really do get a return for the £2k they are dishing out on their license.

All that has to happen now is get rid of the mediocrity already in tier 5 and replace them with the superior teams currently in the juniors.

4 up and down for a couple of seasons would do the trick. 

[drs]

1 minute ago, Khufu2 said:

You seem a bit dim.

Far from being upset,  I’m happy that the chancers haven’t got away with it. If, as seems, likely, all the big teams in the Lothians move across now they will progress more quickly to where they should be - tier 5. They won’t be blocked by  mediocrity like Blackburn Utd and Dalkeith.  I sincerely hope these teams really do get a return for the £2k they are dishing out on their license.

All that has to happen now is get rid of the mediocrity already in tier 5 and replace them with the superior teams currently in the juniors.

4 up and down for a couple of seasons would do the trick. 

You seem upset

[Khufu2]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The SFL, SPFL and EoSFL have all operated with more than division. The WoSFL will likely do the same. The EoSFL guaranteed this year that all new applicants will start of at Tier 6 and probably didn't expect the turn out. The initial talk was over concern of having to split into sections by having more than 18 members.

Having learned from this experience I expect that the WoSFL to take on the same approach as the Lowland League. Take the best candidates with a licence, or able to achieve one after a set grace period. Everyone files in below that's interested. The way things are going there will still be some of that 62 that want to remain Junior beyond 2019.

The reasons for the SoS teams being offered a spot in the Tier 6 WoSFL. Is because it has been acknowledged from day one that 3 or more feeders to the Lowland League is too cumbersome. This is provides the opportunity to streamline.

Why would a tier 6 league follow a tier 5 model?  Licensing is currently a tier 5 requirement not a tier 6 one. You  can’t have different rules in different areas for the same level.

Why are 3 feeders too cumbersome? Many leagues around Europe can cope with a 3 into 1 scenario. Does the SFA really lack the imagination to devise a promotion/relegation process with 3 feeder leagues?

 

[Khufu2]

7 minutes ago, drs said:

You seem upset

You seem exceptionally dim.

[drs]

3 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

You seem exceptionally dim.

You seem upset

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Why would a tier 6 league follow a tier 5 model?  Licensing is currently a tier 5 requirement not a tier 6 one. You  can’t have different rules in different areas for the same level.

Why are 3 feeders too cumbersome? Many leagues around Europe can cope with a 3 into 1 scenario. Does the SFA really lack the imagination to devise a promotion/relegation process with 3 feeder leagues?

 

Licencing wasn't a requirement at Tier 5, then it became one.

Licencing isn't a requirement at Tier 6, it'll likely become one. The EoSFL have already talked about how they want all their members licenced, the EoSFL are likely to have a hand in setting up the WoSFL so the same standards are likely to be applied.

As for why are 3 feeders too cumbersome, ask them not me.

[Khufu2]

5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Licencing wasn't a requirement at Tier 5, then it became one.

Licencing isn't a requirement at Tier 6, it'll likely become one. The EoSFL have already talked about how they want all their members licenced, the EoSFL are likely to have a hand in setting up the WoSFL so the same standards are likely to be applied.

As for why are 3 feeders too cumbersome, ask them not me.

Talking about licensing in the east  doesn’t equate with requiring licensing in the west.  

 

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Khufu2 said:

Talking about licensing in the east  doesn’t equate with requiring licensing in the west. 

It does at Tier 6.  Highland League were all licenced when they became a Tier 5 league, it became the aim of the Lowland League to be fully licenced as well so that the same standards applied across the tier.

Its a requirement of promotion to be licenced and the EoSFL want to all their members licenced. Those same standards are likely to apply across Tier 6.

[LongTimeLurker]

so to sum up the last few days:

Dunbar, Craigroyston, Penicuik and Arniston accepted into the EoS on Thursday at Easter Road

EoS unexpectdly extends deadline to May 31st and places a link to the application form on the homepage of their website

Dundonald reported in the Courier yesterday to be holding a meeting and now expected to do a "reverse ferret" on their deferred application

Newtongrange, St Andrews hold meetings yesterday evening and today and decide to move as well

Lithgae, Bo'ness and Broxburn have held or are having meetings between now and Tuesday and could do the same subject to later AGM ratification

if all this happens and they all get accepted, a north or south division team (Pumpherston or Dundee North End) will be needed to be able to reach 16 teams with the east superleague next season and that assumes no other clubs are flying under the radar at this point where applications are concerned like Arniston just did

 

 

[Khufu2]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It does at Tier 6.  Highland League were all licenced when they became a Tier 5 league, it became the aim of the Lowland League to be fully licenced as well so that the same standards applied across the tier.

Its a requirement of promotion to be licenced and the EoSFL want to all their members licenced. Those same standards are likely to apply across Tier 6.

 

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It does at Tier 6.  Highland League were all licenced when they became a Tier 5 league, it became the aim of the Lowland League to be fully licenced as well so that the same standards applied across the tier.

Its a requirement of promotion to be licenced and the EoSFL want to all their members licenced. Those same standards are likely to apply across Tier 6.

Yes, well the time to demand licensing at tier 6 in the west is when it is demanded in the east. Not before.

[EdinburghBlue]

The EoSFL should now offer to incorporate the East Juniors en masse.  The top league teams could be mixed in with the existing teams at tier 6 and the rest added below according to their existing league positions.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Sunrise said:

THIS GREAT GRADE (that can't actually get a credible sponsor to back its supposedly 'prestigious' glamour trophy at the end of each season).

[FairWeatherFan]

42 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Having learned from this experience I expect that the WoSFL to take on the same approach as the Lowland League. Take the best candidates with a licence, or able to achieve one after a set grace period. Everyone files in below that's interested. The way things are going there will still be some of that 62 that want to remain Junior beyond 2019.

 

22 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Licencing isn't a requirement at Tier 6, it'll likely become one.

 

2 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Yes, well the time to demand licensing at tier 6 in the west is when it is demanded in the east. Not before.

I think that it will become a requirement to be licenced to compete in the EoS Premier the summer of 2019, with the potential for a grace period.

The WoSFL or integration of the the SJFA isn't going to happen for the 2018-19 season. So summer 2019 the West Tier 6 league will likely have a requirement to be licenced on inception or be able to meet licencing after a grace period.

[Khufu2]

6 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

The EoSFL should now offer to incorporate the East Juniors en masse.  The top league teams could be mixed in with the existing teams at tier 6 and the rest added below according to their existing league positions.

Do you mean one tier 6 division of the 12 odds and sods from this season’s EoS plus the 4 top East juniors!  i don’t think that would go down too well.

[Black & Red Socks]

Well the east has certainly given a master class in how not to do it.  At least the likes of Blackburn Utd and Dalkeith, who thought they had pulled a fast one over their former junior colleagues will end up precisely where they started,  back in the mediocrity of the teams they thought they had left behind.

You seem to have absolutely no grasp of the ambition of either of these two clubs, or of the others who have chosen to move. None at all. It’s not to pull a fast one on anyone. It’s been laid out time and time and time again what lies behind their choice - you simply and wilfully ignore this to drive on with what seems to be your own, oft stated belief that everyone else should wilt on the vine until the chosen few in Ayrshire and elsewhere take up at their leisure what they believe to be their rightful place ahead of those you and Isa (well, I suspect everyone taking an interest knows you are actually one and the same person) denigrate and deem less worthy.

 

I suspect Blackburn, Dalkeith and the other early applicants will be delighted more and more teams now see their future in the EoSFL.

 

 

[Khufu2]

10 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

 

I think that it will become a requirement to be licenced to compete in the EoS Premier the summer of 2019, with the potential for a grace period.

The WoSFL or integration of the the SJFA isn't going to happen for the 2018-19 season. So summer 2019 the West Tier 6 league will likely have a requirement to be licenced on inception or be able to meet licencing after a grace period.

Well at least that would treat the two regions equally.  Guaranteeing a place for Glasgow Uni or the SoS licensed clubs simply delays the inevitable of them dropping through the divisions though.

[Sunrise]

Does anyone doon Ayrshire way know anything about the highlighted bit? Unless Annbank are talking aboot the juniors generally.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Talk to the SJFA they'll tell you it's all about tradition. They should just be waved in wherever and whenever they feel like it.

How did Ross County, Caley Thistle, Elgin, Peterhead, Annan and Gretna get into the SFL?

Because it wasn't on performance. 

It's perfectly reasonable when developing a new structure to hand-pick clubs based on what they bring to the table, then let promotion and relegation sort things out after.

I find the lack of respect for by far the biggest non-league clubs in Scotland both disappointing and amusing. The communities behind those clubs have earned the right to more respect through a century and more of thankless dedication. Some people just seem to be annoyed by the fact that, with very few exceptions, the biggest non-league clubs in Scotland are currently West Region Juniors.

But respect aside, it's tactically stupid not to even attempt to woo those big West clubs. Nothing would put more oomph into the pyramid than the likes of Talbot joining it, so I hope the PWG and others are being more diplomatic than those on here who seem keen to shove them as far down as possible for no clear reason.

[GordonS]

Does anyone have an INFORMED opinion on whether, if either of Linlithgow or Bo'ness decided to join the EoS, the other would feel they had little choice but to follow? It may be that each can determine what the other will do.

[Khufu2]

6 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

You seem to have absolutely no grasp of the ambition of either of these two clubs, or of the others who have chosen to move. None at all. It’s not to get a jump on anyone. It’s been laid out time and time and time again what lies behind their choice - you simply and wilfully ignore this to drive on with what seems to be your own, oft stated belief that everyone else should wilt on the vine until the chosen few in Ayrshire and elsewhere take up theirs leisure what they believe to be their rightful place ahead of those you and Isa (well, I suspect everyone taking an interest knows you are actually one and the same person) denigrate and deem less worthy.

 

I suspect Blackburn, Dalkeith and the other early applicants will be delighted more and more teams now see their future in the EoSFL.

What happens in “Ayrshire and beyond” has absolutely no bearing on what has been happening in the east.  I’ve no idea why you think it relevant.

There are several East junior clubs worthy of “advancement” to the Lowland League. The fact that it looks as if most non-Tayside clubs will participate in the EoS next season is good. I welcome it. I approve of the establishment of proper wing of the pyramid. It will be better, though far from perfect, now that the cream in the east will rise to the top, albeit far more slowly than it ought - the bottleneck between tier 5 and 6 is far too narrow.

But it will be interesting to see what kind of Brave New World the likes of Blackburn and Dalkeith  find themselves in in 5 years time.