Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

Just now, LongTimeLurker said:

Concerned that Blackburn could wind up in tier 7 in 2019/20 if more move? Think Bo'ness is a potential tipping point and a lot could still happen over the next couple of weeks. If and it's still very much an if they move because the collective junior entry scenario that should have happened is now viewed as a non-starter due to the approach of the SFA in allowing the senior nonleagues to call the tune, Lithgae almost inevitably won't be far behind given the importance of the derby to both clubs and at that point there really isn't much left that whets the appetite in superleague terms for the remaining stronger Fife and Lothians clubs (plus Sauchie) to make all the extra trips to Tayside involved worthwhile.

The 7th tier is effectively where we are just now so it wouldn't worry us. This is a long term thing, not worrying about where you end up next season or the one after although obviously we'll be trying to bag a top division spot for 2019/20, everyone will.

Collective Junior entry quite rightly didn't happen, an organised merger would have been more desirable but the SJFA didnt come to the table with that, so the merger will be by the back door and take a season or two.

[LongTimeLurker]

Agree that only one will be left standing over most of the LL's catchment south of the Tay in five years or so and what will be left will effectively be the old Tayside region maybe plus some Fife clubs that are closer to Dundee and Perth than Edinburgh like St Andrews and Newburgh. Could have gone either way because the EoS was in a very bad way before Kelty's arrival. Given it will be mainly junior clubs involved either way and EoS clubs get full voting rights after a year, the EoS and any new WoS can still be retrofitted to suit junior football traditions a bit better down the road. Surprised more people don't see that as an opportunity rather than a threat.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Agree that only one will be left standing over most of the LL's catchment south of the Tay in five years or so and what will be left will effectively be the old Tayside region maybe plus some Fife clubs that are closer to Dundee and Perth than Edinburgh like St Andrews and Newburgh. Could have gone either way because the EoS was in a very bad way before Kelty's arrival. Given it will be mainly junior clubs involved either way and EoS clubs get full voting rights after a year, the EoS and any new WoS can still be retrofitted to suit junior football traditions a bit better down the road. Surprised more people don't see that as an opportunity rather than a threat.

Not sure anyone joining the EoS has any desire to "retrofit Junior traditions" into the set-up, there's a reason clubs are leaving and a big part of it is to leave these Junior "traditions" behind.  I don't think you'll find the Tayside clubs ever being admitted to a LL feeder league, but who knows for sure what the future holds.

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 hours ago, Black Dug said:

 

Mate, I'm pro pyramid and all for Linlithgow moving over (and joining Camelon). Getting a licence is different, fair enough the application only costs 2k but you have to get your house in order first. I don't know where You guys were starting from but sorting out the ground isn't all about an agreed capacity but I'm sure you know this. The minimum number of showers, the treatment areas, the minimum specification of the referees room, the disabled spectators area and toilets etc depending on where you started from this could cost £££.
I'm glad Camelon are starting to sort things out I like our games there - need to get that pitch fixed though!

 

Camelon are aware of that and have already done some work. I think your naive if you think the pitch could be fixed properly. The only way it will will be an astro. It' years and years of God knows what coming in from the canal. We actually haven' had games off other than when other teams were. It was boness and Broxburn in january

[Salvo Montalbano]

Concerned that Blackburn could wind up in tier 7 in 2019/20 if more move? Think Bo'ness is a potential tipping point and a lot could still happen over the next couple of weeks. If and it's still very much an if they move because the collective junior entry scenario that should have happened is now viewed as a non-starter due to the approach of the SFA in allowing the senior nonleagues to call the tune, Lithgae almost inevitably won't be far behind given the importance of the derby to both clubs and at that point there really isn't much left that whets the appetite in superleague terms for the remaining stronger Fife and Lothians clubs (plus Sauchie) to make all the extra long distance trips to Tayside that will inevitably be involved worthwhile.

What do you mean by senior non-leagues calling the tune? They are the feeder leagues into the SPFL. They are established. The Juniors could have joined at the time but chose not to. The only time they are calling is "If you want to get into the pyramid you can join us". The Juniors seem to want to keep their existing structure, cups, name, Scottish Cup entry and potentially to join at the same level as the Lowland League - if the Juniors have a better tune to play then we're listening. As to your other post about Junior traditions, can you enlighten me as to what they are because half a dozen people have used that phrase now and nobody seems to ever be able to expand on what they are.

[tombrown]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Agree that only one will be left standing over most of the LL's catchment south of the Tay in five years or so and what will be left will effectively be the old Tayside region maybe plus some Fife clubs that are closer to Dundee and Perth than Edinburgh like St Andrews and Newburgh. Could have gone either way because the EoS was in a very bad way before Kelty's arrival. Given it will be mainly junior clubs involved either way and EoS clubs get full voting rights after a year, the EoS and any new WoS can still be retrofitted to suit junior football traditions a bit better down the road. Surprised more people don't see that as an opportunity rather than a threat.

All these clubs who if voted in.will be like the other clubs they will play in the east of scotland senior football league.which has its own rules and its own constitution. Which run in line with the S.F.As.nothing like the juniors. most teams leaving are doing so for a change to a better orginised league. Late applicants are now leaving as they will be secluded.travel costs. gate monies.snd sponsors will be effected.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

What do you mean by senior non-leagues calling the tune? They are the feeder leagues into the SPFL. They are established. The Juniors could have joined at the time but chose not to. The only time they are calling is "If you want to get into the pyramid you can join us". The Juniors seem to want to keep their existing structure, cups, name, Scottish Cup entry and potentially to join at the same level as the Lowland League - if the Juniors have a better tune to play then we're listening. As to your other post about Junior traditions, can you enlighten me as to what they are because half a dozen people have used that phrase now and nobody seems to ever be able to expand on what they are.

The reason I want a WOSL is to move away from the junior traditions such as no fixture list, too many cups and numpties in charge.

[Kilbowie Benches]

TJ is fiddling as Rome burns!

The “Holy Grail” will be the West Of Scotland Cup next season.

Its all his fault as he’s not been letting clubs know what’s been going on or consulting with them about what he’s been saying on their behalf at the PWG meetings.

The SJFA is a busted flush and there is no way it can continue in its present form now.

 

[Khufu2]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Not sure anyone joining the EoS has any desire to "retrofit Junior traditions" into the set-up, there's a reason clubs are leaving and a big part of it is to leave these Junior "traditions" behind.  I don't think you'll find the Tayside clubs ever being admitted to a LL feeder league, but who knows for sure what the future holds.

It's to get an  ever-diminishing  share of the crock of gold in the  pyramid.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Khufu2

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Not sure anyone joining the EoS has any desire to "retrofit Junior traditions" into the set-up, there's a reason clubs are leaving and a big part of it is to leave these Junior "traditions" behind.  I don't think you'll find the Tayside clubs ever being admitted to a LL feeder league, but who knows for sure what the future holds.

Making sure there's still something that is effectively a continuation of the traditions of the junior cup if not it's exact same format would be the obvious one.

[cmontheloknow]

5 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

It's to get an  ever-diminishing  share of the crock of gold in the  pyramid.

Prospect of some 'gold' in pyramid - limited perhaps

Prospect of some 'gold' in the Juniors - non-existent

Potential to gain license in pyramid - some

Potential to gain license in the Juniors - non-existent

So, forgetting everything else that can be construed as benefits to leaving, clubs remaining in the Juniors have no 'gold' to get their hands on and no Club License. That's pretty black and white. Any committee deciding that is a good thing is negligent.

Edited May 20, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[tombrown]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Making sure there's still something that is effectively a continuation of the traditions of the junior cup if not it's exact same format would be the obvious one.

Why. The east of scotland senior football league / asscoation. Run the regional cup between the s.o.s. and the LL league.when the west of scotland senior league comes into being that will be included in the compition.sorted.then when the north senior league get done that to will be included. Anything junior histories.traditions.can stay with the S.J.F.A. allowing any club who does not want change can stay in their league.

[LongTimeLurker]

Think the reasons should be obvious to the non-zealots on here.

[Enigma]

Won’t be long before the East Juniors could merge with the North if the exodus continues.

[Burnie_man]

Think the reasons should be obvious to the non-zealots on here.

What does that even mean?

[Burnie_man]

Making sure there's still something that is effectively a continuation of the traditions of the junior cup if not it's exact same format would be the obvious one.

I'm sure a new National non-league cup will be looked at, at some point. No reason why not. Today is non-league finals day at Wembley and its a great innovation. We could do likewise.

 

[santheman]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The reason I want a WOSL is to move away from the junior traditions such as no fixture list, too many cups and numpties in charge.

And all about to change at the next West Region AGM going by the stories doing the rounds.

[Kilbowie Benches]

For the Juniors to exist in the pyramid they’d have to fall into line with the EoSL and SoSL rules which are SFA rules.

No more reinstatement or their own disciplinary system which means no money for the regions coffers.

The only way the SJFA can survive is to stay outside of the pyramid for the few clubs who want to hold onto the Junior tradition.

[LongTimeLurker]

The junior cup is a great competition and having something that is like it and can be viewed as a continuation of it would greatly enhance the EoS and any future WoS in the years ahead.

[Robert James]

26 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Won’t be long before the East Juniors could merge with the North if the exodus continues.

An excellent/logical solution for clubs remaining in the Junior setup, which (in theory) should strengthen both Junior Regional Associations.

Also, it would give greater balance to the  Highland/Lowland areas, and be  (mostly) in line with the SFA's boundary.