Junior football, what is the future?

[RedEd]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

No you haven't, because the League Cup is not a major trophy. Of which you have won none and never will. And have spent fully half of the period since the four league system came into place in the 1970s slumming it in the seaside leagues. Founded in 1910 because the original two clubs in the town were stinking out Scottish football, Ayr United are Scottish football's oldest and least successful franchise club. 

Gutted for you. 

 

The four league system came into place in the 90s, not the 70s. Know your facts before you post. And by my calculations we've spent more than half the seasons since the two division system was scrapped in either the top flight or second tier. Again, don't make assumptions just because they suit your argument. A bit like some of your comments about the Juniors.

And since was a formal merger a franchise? It wasn't a takeover by one party. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by RedEd

[RedEd]

Anyway after my debate with troll, I'll add my tuppence worth into the debate. Firstly, I hate the snobbery (inverted or otherwise) of talk about the Junior grade. My team is Senior team, but it's not a term I would ever use. I support a football team, I don't care about any grade. And I speak as someone who does go to the odd Junior game.

My impression is that the lack of action from  the SJFA, until now anyway, is that the top brass were too fond of the blazer to allow themselves to be part of pyramid where there own sense of self - inflated importance would be diminished.  And they might have to let other clubs enter the Junior Cup. It's only now, after they've lost so many clubs from the East Region  that they realise that they fiddled while Rome burned. The only reason that they might set up a West League in the pyramid is that someone else will do it otherwise,  and they will lose some big clubs. 

I see some the clubs against the pyramid as being the same. They win trophies with regularity and want that continue. That's only natural, but their committees aren't willing to present all the facts to their fans and have a proper debate about the future. They too fiddle while Rome burns. Soon they will miss games against Kilwinning, Clydebank et al as they play Muirkirk or Newmains again in a smaller league set up. They might also find it harder to attract decent players and crowds will diminish.

There is absolutely no reason why the entire junior system can't integrate into the pyramid. The only thing stopping it is the desperation to hold on to power. 

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, tombrown said:

Got to honest guys.some people on this thread seem more determined to slag. insult. and abuse. People who's clubs have moved or are open to move to the pyramid.it sort of sums up the thread

The juniors what is the future             

           suppose i will be next.

 

Personally I am looking forward to getting the 2018 SFA ,  SJFA,  EoSL &  SOSFL  AGM's over and done with, and then we can all look forward to some real football battles......... on the pitch.

Senior -v- ex Junior will  throw up some interesting results in the EoS, and West Junior clubs will need to be clear what they want for the future. At present  not many of us have any idea who wants what, when, and in what format in the West.  I'm not even sure if they know themselves, what they actually want to happen.

Role on August, please.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Robert James

[Jambo'ness]

8 hours ago, RedEd said:

Anyway after my debate with troll, I'll add my tuppence worth into the debate. Firstly, I hate the snobbery (inverted or otherwise) of talk about the Junior grade. My team is Senior team, but it's not a term I would ever use. I support a football team, I don't care about any grade. And I speak as someone who does go to the odd Junior game.

My impression is that the lack of action from  the SJFA, until now anyway, is that the top brass were too fond of the blazer to allow themselves to be part of pyramid where there own sense of self - inflated importance would be diminished.  And they might have to let other clubs enter the Junior Cup. It's only now, after they've lost so many clubs from the East Region  that they realise that they fiddled while Rome burned. The only reason that they might set up a West League in the pyramid is that someone else will do it otherwise,  and they will lose some big clubs. 

I see some the clubs against the pyramid as being the same. They win trophies with regularity and want that continue. That's only natural, but their committees aren't willing to present all the facts to their fans and have a proper debate about the future. They too fiddle while Rome burns. Soon they will miss games against Kilwinning, Clydebank et al as they play Muirkirk or Newmains again in a smaller league set up. They might also find it harder to attract decent players and crowds will diminish.

There is absolutely no reason why the entire junior system can't integrate into the pyramid. The only thing stopping it is the desperation to hold on to power. 

Accidentally red-dotted you there but gave you a green to counter.  You are spot on about the blazers holding on to power but I think you are wrong regarding an entire integration.

TJ & co have missed the boat on East clubs, now too fractured to move together.  He and his cronies have always been more concerned with the west anyway, so there he still sees a chance to do some dealing that keeps him in a position of power.  All I would ever say to other fans is 'would you buy a used car from him?'

[vikingTON]

10 hours ago, RedEd said:

The four league system came into place in the 90s, not the 70s. Know your facts before you post. And by my calculations we've spent more than half the seasons since the two division system was scrapped in either the top flight or second tier.  

Nice try, but you haven't  actually been in the top flight since the 1970s and have spent more than half of your seasons since the four league system came into place slumming it in the seaside leagues.  Looks like you've found your natural place in the pecking order then.

Quote

Again, don't make assumptions just because they suit your argument. A bit like some of your comments about the Juniors. And since was a formal merger a franchise? It wasn't a takeover by one party.

That has nothing to do with the fact that two clubs were merged with the aim of putting together one credible football club in the town of Ayr - using the exact same principle that led to the Livingston franchise being set up in the West Lothian region.  Shame that the Ayr franchise has been an unsurpassed failure though. 

[Hillonearth]

10 hours ago, RedEd said:

Anyway after my debate with troll, I'll add my tuppence worth into the debate. Firstly, I hate the snobbery (inverted or otherwise) of talk about the Junior grade. My team is Senior team, but it's not a term I would ever use. I support a football team, I don't care about any grade. And I speak as someone who does go to the odd Junior game.

My impression is that the lack of action from  the SJFA, until now anyway, is that the top brass were too fond of the blazer to allow themselves to be part of pyramid where there own sense of self - inflated importance would be diminished.  And they might have to let other clubs enter the Junior Cup. It's only now, after they've lost so many clubs from the East Region  that they realise that they fiddled while Rome burned. The only reason that they might set up a West League in the pyramid is that someone else will do it otherwise,  and they will lose some big clubs. 

I see some the clubs against the pyramid as being the same. They win trophies with regularity and want that continue. That's only natural, but their committees aren't willing to present all the facts to their fans and have a proper debate about the future. They too fiddle while Rome burns. Soon they will miss games against Kilwinning, Clydebank et al as they play Muirkirk or Newmains again in a smaller league set up. They might also find it harder to attract decent players and crowds will diminish.

There is absolutely no reason why the entire junior system can't integrate into the pyramid. The only thing stopping it is the desperation to hold on to power. 

This absolutely. I freely admit I was cynical when the likes of the LL were floated - from where we were standing at a club level it seemed like a handful of pushy EoS clubs with some useful idiots along for the ride to make up the numbers, especially when the letter inviting applications came out to Junior teams mere weeks before it was due to start.

Turns out the SJFA blazers had been involved in the process all along, and seemingly either through arrogance or a sense of self-preservation hadn't  bothered to communicate any of the salient facts and details of developments to the clubs they represent.

It's odd though that a couple of the traditional big hitters - certainly recently - Linlithgow & Talbot have come out the most pro-status quo. Or perhaps not. They're in a comfort zone where they win things most years and don't want things to change. It also explains  why some of their fans are so furious about "lesser teams" - i.e. everybody else - seeing things differently and looking elsewhere.

When things are going well for you, it's sometimes difficult to comprehend why others don't share your worldview. Long-term, it may be counterproductive for them though - remember the example of Whitburn, currently residing in the where-are-they-now file, who were sceptical about the introduction of the superleagues and now can't get out of the South Division.

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Hillonearth

[FairWeatherFan]

Out of curiosity, how long did it take for the Superleague/3 Regions format to go from proposal to being actioned? And were there any other clubs that tried to 'opt out' like Whitburn?

[tombrown]

9 hours ago, Robert James said:

Personally I am looking forward to getting the 2018 SFA ,  SJFA,  EoSL &  SOSFL  AGM's over and done with, and then we can all look forward to some real football battles......... on the pitch.

Senior -v- ex Junior will  throw up some interesting results in the EoS, and West Junior clubs will need to be clear what they want for the future. At present  not many of us have any idea who wants what, when, and in what format in the West.  I'm not even sure if they know themselves, what they actually want to happen.

Role on August, please.

 

The format in the west should and will be a west of scotland league.to mirror the south and east of scotland.3 leagues working within the pyramid.play off's and promotions.its freedom of of choice any clubs not willing to take part stay junior. thats the future!!!!. then we start on the north juniors trying to bring them in. Remember clubs on this forum have said both.some want to change some dont.?

[Hillonearth]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Out of curiosity, how long did it take for the Superleague/3 Regions format to go from proposal to being actioned? And were there any other clubs that tried to 'opt out' like Whitburn?

From memory it was announced at the start of one season that it was happening the start of the following, and teams were playing for places in the new structures.

Whitburn were the only side to come out against it AFAIK.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

From memory it was announced at the start of one season that it was happening the start of the following, and teams were playing for places in the new structures.

Whitburn were the only side to come out against it AFAIK.

I was wondering because it seems like a fairly big change for the SJFA at the time. When it's came to the Lowland League/Pyramid, the SJFA has so far always put a delay on things, presumably to get things in shape for integration. March 2013 they were saying 2014-15 at the earliest, March 2018 and it's 2019-20 at the earliest.

[cmontheloknow]

12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I was wondering because it seems like a fairly big change for the SJFA at the time. When it's came to the Lowland League/Pyramid, the SJFA has so far always put a delay on things, presumably to get things in shape for integration. March 2013 they were saying 2014-15 at the earliest, March 2018 and it's 2019-20 at the earliest.

There was a full season of qualification for the West Superleagues, though Ayrshire ran with a very small top division in its last outing, only 7 clubs. The 7th, non-qualifying side, was Lugar - 0 pts from their 18 games vs Bot, Nock, Glens, Medda, Buffs and Ladeside.

Edited May 19, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, tombrown said:

The format in the west should and will be a west of scotland league.to mirror the south and east of scotland.3 leagues working within the pyramid.play off's and promotions.its freedom of of choice any clubs not willing to take part stay junior. thats the future!!!!. then we start on the north juniors trying to bring them in. Remember clubs on this forum have said both.some want to change some dont.?

"Freedom of choice".  Good news, but will it happen ? 

I wonder if the SJFA will make any formal pyramid announcement/proposal at its AGM (or EGM),  possibly resulting in an "all in or all out" vote/directive to West clubs ? ?

[RedEd]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

Nice try, but you haven't  actually been in the top flight since the 1970s and have spent more than half of your seasons since the four league system came into place slumming it in the seaside leagues.  Looks like you've found your natural place in the pecking order then.

That has nothing to do with the fact that two clubs were merged with the aim of putting together one credible football club in the town of Ayr - using the exact same principle that led to the Livingston franchise being set up in the West Lothian region.  Shame that the Ayr franchise has been an unsurpassed failure though. 

It was you who mentioned the 70s first, not me. And now you've been caught out you are trying to deflect. I also suggest that you look up the definition of franchise  as you clearly have no idea what it actually is.

Anyway, don't let me stop you from going out and playing the buses.

[corner]

6 minutes ago, RedEd said:

It was you who mentioned the 70s first, not me. And now you've been caught out you are trying to deflect. I also suggest that you look up the definition of franchise  as you clearly have no idea what it actually is.

Anyway, don't let me stop you from going out and playing the buses.

SPFL forum for this pish  

 

[EdinburghBlue]

17 hours ago, virginton said:

the fact that even a statistically woeful Cowdenbeath side haven't been flushed down the toilet two years in succession

... to be fair lucky wins on penalties and dodgy refereeing can't continue for ever

[EdinburghBlue]

15 hours ago, RedEd said:

And since was a formal merger a franchise? It wasn't a takeover by one party. 

[Falside Jag]

On 16/05/2018 at 15:19, Burnie_man said:

All expenses should be documented and above board, but given the fact that HMRC cannot find the resource to investigate breaches on minimum wage as staffing levels are cut to the bone, I rather suspect expenses fiddling in non-league football is way down their list of priorities when it comes to tax avoidance.

With respect, your answer shows that you know absolutely nothing about the NMW, how it is enforced, by whom, where the funding comes from and what sectors will be looked at in the future. If there are clubs paying expenses that aren't reasonable and not keeping robust records of how they are arrived at then they are putting themselves in a precarious position.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Falside Jag

[Sunrise]

Tamthebam will be pleased I guess.

[LongTimeLurker]

So Dunbar, Craigroyston, Bo'ness? and Penicuik? is the current state of play on this?

Edited May 19, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[8MileBU]

6 hours ago, virginton said:

That has nothing to do with the fact that two clubs were merged with the aim of putting together one credible football club in the town of Ayr - using the exact same principle that led to the Livingston franchise being set up in the West Lothian region.  Shame that the Ayr franchise has been an unsurpassed failure though. 

Take these really long, mewling, irrelevant spoutings of pish to a thread where someone might give a f**k you utterly tedious cretin.