Junior football, what is the future?

[1320Lichtie]

Red dot me all you want, a back handed complement. But what I do care about is that it is all designed to quell me from putting a spoke in the wheel of the anti Junior campaign.
The Juniors within the Pyramid are effyouseekade, the resentment towards them is clear and they have no role now in any pyramid other than to conform. Over and above that some smell blood and see an opportunity to stick the boot in, which is happening under the guise of a thread about the future of the grade. In short it sucks, not because people have a poor opinion of the grade, but because they pretend otherwise whilst plotting it's demise. Why do this? Because they see the opportunity to continually turn heads of clubs within our grade with stories of silk and money whilst cultivating a bad mouth campaign aimed at the grade eventually creating its collapse. The icing on the cake being the big clubs like Talbot having to start at the bottom, firmly in their place.
Be under no elusion, Junior Football has no say, take it or leave it is the deal, so no more rubbish about dialog or pros and cons, there are no pros in Junior football as far as the dancers to the tune are concerned. I know this, so why don't you form a pyramid forum and give us all peace. You won, the Pyramid will only be what those in charge want it to be with zero input from the Juniors. The tail wags the dog well done!

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[AlanCamelonfan]

I' watching the fact cup story 2017-2018. Interesting some of the teams Billericay town paying Paul konchesky on 1000 a week. Jeremaine pennant aswell. Ac London a team created after London riots lost 5-1 in heir preliminary round tie but it' about dreams and teams doingo the best we can

[Guest]

1 hour ago, calmac25 said:

Darren Young was about the worst player on the park last night. It wasn't a great game , Penicuik scored with their 3 chances and Rose missed theirs so deserved to go out. No cutting edge and missed best 2 strikers and defenders

I don't know anyone at Penicuik but I'm sure the club will leave the juniors as soon as they can,why stay? They are a distance of licencing, The team have gone a long way but the park isn't up to much and they'd need a whole new facilities building.

Different game from me.....who are our best two strikers?

[santheman]

26 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

They could be lost for years in the Juniors as well. Lanark/Lesmahagow play in separate divisions just now, and next year Larkhall/Royal Albert will be in different divisions. Benburb/St Anthony's haven't been in the same division since 2014/15, and next season Benburb will be two leagues above St Anthony's. You must remember that Junior football in each region is a pyramid, just with nowhere to go at the top.

Sectional Cup games

Edited May 17, 2018 by santheman

[calmac25]

Different game from me.....who are our best two strikers?

McIntosh and Lough. McGachie is good in some games but last night wasn't set up for a physical battle. Definitely an area that needs strengthening

[Shannon]

One of the things Junior clubs are concerned about is being forced into a league they feel a step too far, which is one of the concessions proposed which was soundly rejected. Some clubs might be able to jump in the deep end and swim, some not. Being pushed in is not right. I'm referring to mandatory promotion.

Whoever would win the new West of Scotland League be it Talbot, Beith, Buffs etc would be top half of the Lowland League quite easily so why would mandatory promotion be so bad? Most clubs would have a grace period to get licensed too. If Golspie Sutherland can get licensed most teams in West can afford to just need time and help with forms, working way through certificates etc

As Talbot are the dominant force in Junior football over the last 20 years then they have most to lose if Scottish Junior Cup goes either to all non league teams as will be much tougher to win v Highland / Lowland League teams or gets scrapped or rebranded as they can no longer boast of record 11/12 Junior Scottish Cup wins and West Super League titles as no longer a trophies that would be played for. Talbot have most to lose so why a couple of their supporters are very passionate with not losing Junior tag, Junior Cup, West Region Super League etc. While some West teams maybe including my team Irvine Meadow, Clydebank, Kilwinning Rangers, Pollok from bigger towns / areas perhaps have most to gain by joining senior league and getting more interest, sponsorship and most importantly some prize money / grants to improve our facilities. Talbot are content where they are and with being the dominant force and a pyramid in the West could definitely change that as will have to move up the leagues and be mid table Lowland League / SPFL League Two team even. Their supporters love the magic of the Junior Cup and feel it's been degraded, I think it's a great trophy and one I would have loved to have seen Meadow win but we just fell at semi / quarters stage during our big spending days and first season under Chris Strain where weren't particularly 'big spenders'.

I think a new West of Scotland League should be formed with all top league of West Juniors invited / pushed to participate so we don't have same problems as the East. I'd keep Scottish Junior Cup for all tiers below SPFL League Two or at least tier 6 and below with invites to Juniors who get promoted if Talbot want to beat lower league teams to win the 'Junior' Cup again then fine but don't see that working....

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

Don't want promotion ?...just use the Threave Rovers tactic.

No tactics needed. If a club joins, but doesn't have a licence, it can't get promoted to the Lowland League under present rules. Clubs might decide to take years to obtain one.  Also, some EoS clubs can't get one, eg Peebles Rovers, because their ground isn't enclosed.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, calmac25 said:

14 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

Different game from me.....who are our best two strikers?

McIntosh and Lough. McGachie is good in some games but last night wasn't set up for a physical battle. Definitely an area that needs strengthening

 Not a  McIntosh fan wastes too many chances and wants to do it all himself..my opinion....Lough needs more game time but would be a first choice....Kieran ,well he doesn't give a consistent performance on the park......Agree need forwards but have been for a few seasons now....don't believe we cant get them..as the price is too high or that they cannot be guaranteed game time if they come..believe the rumour mill is saying Stevie Thomson is coming back next season to join us from Berwick...that is going backwards in my book...However wont really concern me.

[Born To Run]

We’re now in a situation where the North and East regions are going to be shadows of what they once were. The main question is, will sides in the West jump ship to the new WoS or will they continue to battle on (with the exception of Clydebank)?

The SJFA will be severely weakened if the West region goes the same way, and will no doubt be doing everything in their power to keep it intact.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BoomShakalaka said:

My gate person? I think you will find its a requirement to produce a season ticket for entry.

Man you have some massive chip on your shoulder - always greetin

Applied when it suites then like tickets at cup ties?

[Burnie_man]

I’m not really sure how the Junior Cup could actually work as an all-inclusive competition at the moment without causing major disruption. Given that the vast majority of Junior clubs don’t have floodlights, postponed matches would be tricky.

You’d probably need to play the early rounds in August, September and October on a regional basis, use November/December/January to clear any backlog on free Saturdays (or midweek where possible), and then resume in February where the rounds went national and play February, March, April with Semis (one game) and Final in May.  Postponed games post-break could cause issues unless free weeks were factored into the fixture calendar, or again if midweeks could be used.

Replays would need to be dumped with the tie settled over 120 minutes and penalties, no two legged semi-finals either. Licenced clubs could receive byes for the first couple of rounds to take account of their Scottish Cup commitments.

Perhaps some cups in HL/LL/EoS/SoS area would need to be dumped or amended to accommodate these extra fixtures. Would they be interested?

To make it work it would not look anything like the current Junior Cup set-up.

[Marten]

29 minutes ago, Robert James said:

No tactics needed. If a club joins, but doesn't have a licence, it can't get promoted to the Lowland League under present rules. Clubs might decide to take years to obtain one.  Also, some EoS clubs can't get one, eg Peebles Rovers, because their ground isn't enclosed.

 

Clubs can indeed just not apply for a license to avoid promotion. Mandatory promotion from LL to SPFL should be in place for a proper pyramid (with more relegation places from SPFL).  I would like to see 3 relegation places from LL. To prevent teams blocking promotion, the highest eligible teams from both WOS & EOS should get promoted together with a play-off winner. If a licensed team turns down promotion, they lose the license and can only qualify for the Scottish cup via qualifying routes. In that way all teams can be in the pyramid.

[Marten]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I’m not really sure how the Junior Cup could actually work as an all-inclusive competition at the moment without causing major disruption. Given that the vast majority of Junior clubs don’t have floodlights, postponed matches would be tricky.

You’d probably need to play the early rounds in August, September and October on a regional basis, use November/December/January to clear any backlog on free Saturdays (or midweek where possible), and then resume in February where the rounds went national and play February, March, April with Semis (one game) and Final in May.  Postponed games post-break could cause issues unless free weeks were factored into the fixture calendar, or again if midweeks could be used.

Replays would need to be dumped with the tie settled over 120 minutes and penalties, no two legged semi-finals either. Licenced clubs could receive byes for the first couple of rounds to take account of their Scottish Cup commitments.

Perhaps some cups in HL/LL/EoS/SoS area would need to be dumped or amended to accommodate these extra fixtures. Would they be interested?

To make it work it would not look anything like the current Junior Cup set-up.

There are 160 junior teams currently. Add HL/LL/EoS/SoS teams to it and there are still fewer than 256 teams, meaning no extra rounds are needed. I do think something in the senior section needs to be dumped, but that shouldn't be an issue as they get a national cup to replace it.

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, Marten said:

There are 160 junior teams currently. Add HL/LL/EoS/SoS teams to it and there are still fewer than 256 teams, meaning no extra rounds are needed. I do think something in the senior section needs to be dumped, but that shouldn't be an issue as they get a national cup to replace it.

It's not an insurmountable problem, but it would impact on fixtures of the leagues mentioned and are they that keen to take part in something called the Junior Cup?

They might be if it was rebranded something like SFA Trophy with a sponsor and perhaps Hampden for the Final.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Hillonearth]

48 minutes ago, santheman said:

Sectional Cup games

The Sectional has been stale for years though. Attendances especially for the midweek games are almost invariably terrible across the board - it only remotely starts going once you get to the quarter finals.

All the competition serves to do now is to perpetuate some half-forgotten local rivalries that could just as easily be replicated as pre-season games if the sides are THAT desperate to play each other.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

It's not an insurmountable problem, but it would impact on fixtures of the leagues mentioned and are they that keen to take part in something called the Junior Cup?

They might be if it was rebranded something like SFA Trophy with a sponsor and perhaps Hampden for the Final.

From the wording used in the 2013 PWG minutes talking about the Junior Cup: "The Cup would need to be partially streamlined to manage fixtures throughout the season."

So like you said replays, two legged semis and the like would probably go.

[HTG]

I've not posted on here for a while but there's been some amount of shite coming from East Ayrshire. 

This would all ease right down if the SJFA could just confirm that the juniors - all of them - will start 19/20 at Tier 6.  

If that cannot be done then the teams in the east have been lied to.  I'll be less than happy about that and I'll want answers as to why we've been strung along and utterly let down by "the grade" which thus far we've trusted.

[santheman]

29 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

The Sectional has been stale for years though. Attendances especially for the midweek games are almost invariably terrible across the board - it only remotely starts going once you get to the quarter finals.

All the competition serves to do now is to perpetuate some half-forgotten local rivalries that could just as easily be replicated as pre-season games if the sides are THAT desperate to play each other.

About to get a revamp

[Salvo Montalbano]

Robert, thanks for your message, for what it's worth I never considered you to be one of the dancing primates and you make some very decent points. I agree that changes are afoot and that the Juniors need to embrace change, have never said anything else. However, the realisation that the pyramid is not open to suggestions from Junior Football and the incessant contempt is hard to take. It is one thing getting stitched up like a kipper, another to smile while they do it.

Again, I'm trying to ask a serious question here but what suggestions are you talking about?

As far as I can see, the only suggestions are that the Junior Leagues should either fit in at Tier 5 (never going to happen) or Tier 6 (could potentially happen in the West), that the SJFA should still exist (doesn't seem insurmountable although quite what they'd do other than perhaps run the Junior Cup is open to question) and that clubs should be able to opt out of promotion (thus negating the point of a pyramid and anyway - again, this is a genuine question because I don't follow the Juniors as much as I used to - can a Junior club at the moment refuse promotion to the Super League?).

[Hillonearth]

1 minute ago, santheman said:

About to get a revamp

Rightly so, but I reckon most teams wouldn't bat an eyelid if it got binned altogether.

It's just one of those competitions that's outstayed its welcome and people are bored with, certainly in its current format - as I said, if teams are desperate to hang to a local rivalry they can always play for bragging rights in pre-season...the likes of Lanark and the Gow who you mentioned already do in that Clydesdale Cup thing.