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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

The Junior Cup needs a strong Huntly

Well if you want a truly national cup competition it wouldn't hurt to have the best non-league sides from a particular area represented. The last North Region side I can see to have won the cup, or even contest a final, was Banks O'dee in 1957.

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2 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

I will believe that when it happens..at the moment that is wishful thinking with the present acrimony that is going on and you will have some people out there saying another bloody cup.....or many others may be shelved with it taking there place..may/could happen ..hope it does.for the sake of the game as a whole.

It was part of the original 2013 idea for an integrated non-league set up. Don't see why it would change. If anything it's reinforced with traditional Junior clubs moving into the SFA pyramid. Do you really expect a Bonnyrigg or Camelon to turn down another opportunity to the win the greatest prize in their clubs history?

 

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1 hour ago, BENJI BOY said:

Let Bill answer you then....I was watching the Upwards and Onwards boys being beaten comprehensively by one of the clubs you and your cohorts believe have no ambition...out played ..out thought..and lacking a game plan.....game run by the Penicuik back 3....centre half wasn't good enough to play for Bonnyrigg 5 years ago when his time was up with the Rose A....but for Allan Horne it could have been a barrowload...THE community game at junior level.. just look at the history and how it has served the community......but that's being a dinosaur......E of S.....nothing in comparison.....tell me when you will see the streets lined and the Toll packed again waiting on the team coming from the PremierJunior Cup Final....not worth recalling is it really.....now forgotten heros in the new order of things...except by us dinasaurs ...of course its 40 years ago or have you forgotten...WILL any of the E of  S trophy,s re-create that memorable night..with all its money.?.....ONWARDS AND UPWARDS as you keep repeating......I...say again ..the best of luck in your new adventure....its not for me.....my choice...and luckily I still have the right to make my own mind up on the matter.

Cheers Bill.

To be honest Penicuik took their chances but I didnt quite understand the Bonnyrigg team tonight, could you? One of the clubs I think have no ambition? Explain? Penicuik understandably due to their history were apprehensive about a move to Licence but I believe that they will go and go  next season. Did you hear anything tonight?..from your cohorts?

Bill when did we last win the Scottish Cup?  78. Bonnyrigg havent won the wee Scottish in 40 years.  Bill I am not old enough to remember this and I have never experienced a Scottish Cup win which I can only imagine would have been a tremendous day and achievement but you fail to see any failure in the set up you only see the positves and lack a balanced approach to make an informed decision. I believe that both Junior clubs and eos/lowland clubs serve the community well.

Maybe though in a  few season you wont be able to see junior fitba - in the east anyways.

Take care and see you at the back of the goals ....

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Benji, I posed a fair question. You say the EoS cant have the same community engagement as Bonnyrigg, i was curious as to why you think that given that many of these clubs have been integral parts of their communities for a very long time, playing fitba just like Bonnyrigg, many playing in big games in the past just like Bonnyrigg.

 

Is it really just about winning the Junior Cup in your eyes?

 

i would argue that Bill doesnt really understand the community club concept to be honest. Involving all - Boys Clubs/ Girls/ Over 35s / amateur/U20 and others. However, for Bill and his cohorts who gather before games or on the High Street its not about this - its about distant (great) memories of 2 Scottish Cup wins.... 52 and 40 years ago.

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1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Not sure what the North Caledonian League ground rules are, or what's happened to the North Kessock pitch, but I suppose it's possible. City's attendances have always been tiny, well under 100 when I've been. I fear the worst.

Still exists as far as I know. Also the NCL has improved considerably since Inverness City left it to join the Juniors.

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15 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It was part of the original 2013 idea for an integrated non-league set up. Don't see why it would change. If anything it's reinforced with traditional Junior clubs moving into the SFA pyramid. Do you really expect a Bonnyrigg or Camelon to turn down another opportunity to the win the greatest prize in their clubs history?

 

 

1 minute ago, BoomShakalaka said:

Cheers Bill.

To be honest Penicuik took their chances but I didnt quite understand the Bonnyrigg team tonight, could you? One of the clubs I think have no ambition? Explain? Penicuik understandably due to their history were apprehensive about a move to Licence but I believe that they will go and go  next season. Did you hear anything tonight?..from your cohorts?

Bill when did we last win the Scottish Cup?  78. Bonnyrigg havent won the wee Scottish in 40 years.  Bill I am not old enough to remember this and I have never experienced a Scottish Cup win which I can only imagine would have been a tremendous day and achievement but you fail to see any failure in the set up you only see the positves and lack a balanced approach to make an informed decision. I believe that both Junior clubs and eos/lowland clubs serve the community well.

Maybe though in a  few season you wont be able to see junior fitba - in the east anyways.

Take care and see you at the back of the goals ....

 

 

I believe the Pyramid will one day embrace all clubs and that should be good for Scottish football as a whole..and yes Penicuik will have to take their place in the order of things..but you know as I know Penicuik don't own their park and under no circumstances could they raise the money to meet all the requirements of the required License criteria to be able to compete on equal footing with those who do own their parks or the ones in our area and further afield who have had the Largees of local taxpayers money pumped in..Midlothian Council are skint as it is and have other more pressing avenues for the taxpayers money ..they have spent their allocation on two of the local clubs who could gain their License because of the work already done....Regarding tonight ..we were out played in every department..that is the bottom line....with a team on the field that is sitting 4 points away from winning the Super League again...same team that we are told repeatedly we have strength in depth in every department..didn't show tonight I am afraid..dont blame the manager or the referee...yellow cards for mouthing.again....we must have players on the border line of not playing again this season......Yes I am fortunate that I still have long standing friends in Penicuik who I meet regularly.. socially. and as I have said before..I am not interested in other clubs domestic politics and the subject is never broached at anytime..what I do know they have one of the best run clubs in junior football and the Officials are always at the gates welcoming away fans as they come in whatever the game...good PR and the match programme they produce is of the highest quality......

Our nearest senior team is in the Lowland League and I have ventured to their matches on several occasions over the last few seasons..and stood beside the very sparse spectators and there is no atmosphere at all..irrespective if it is the big Scottish or what.....not for me this level of football I am afraid..Again my choice..

Every possibility that there wont be any junior football in the east within the next few years...then that is the way of things....then it could be the local under 21,s for me then..but one thing for certain you wont see me at the back of the goals at New Dundas....could I paraphrase an old stanza...You will be pleased that a dinasuar has left the building......Onwards and Upwards  as the saying goes. and genuinely..good luck .n your new venture.

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1 minute ago, Rooster20 said:

Wait so are Penicuik a late application? Thought they voted no to pyriamid in the survey 

Penicuik was a rumour posted here: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/244580-junior-football-what-is-the-future/&page=382&tab=comments#comment-12146829 Only one team below the Tay in the Superleague voted no, and that was Broxburn.

 

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29 minutes ago, BoomShakalaka said:

i would argue that Bill doesnt really understand the community club concept to be honest. Involving all - Boys Clubs/ Girls/ Over 35s / amateur/U20 and others. However, for Bill and his cohorts who gather before games or on the High Street its not about this - its about distant (great) memories of 2 Scottish Cup wins.... 52 and 40 years ago.

Your impertinence has no bounderies to assume that I don't understand the make up or Constitution of our Community club......I would be interested in knowing who my cohorts are who gather before  games in the High Street and reminisce about our last Scottish cup games are....but truth be told this is only a small part of the infantile drivel that has become the norm from the poster and his curia....against those who don't swallow the New Dundas line as gospel.....but they are a happy inward looking bunch I am sure living in their bubble...Maybe that was why I was challenged at one of the games to produce my season ticket at the gate..the first time ever....Mistaken identity again.....sad.

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8 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

 

I believe the Pyramid will one day embrace all clubs and that should be good for Scottish football as a whole..and yes Penicuik will have to take their place in the order of things..but you know as I know Penicuik don't own their park and under no circumstances could they raise the money to meet all the requirements of the required License criteria to be able to compete on equal footing with those who do own their parks or the ones in our area and further afield who have had the Largees of local taxpayers money pumped in..Midlothian Council are skint as it is and have other more pressing avenues for the taxpayers money ..they have spent their allocation on two of the local clubs who could gain their License because of the work already done....Regarding tonight ..we were out played in every department..that is the bottom line....with a team on the field that is sitting 4 points away from winning the Super League again...same team that we are told repeatedly we have strength in depth in every department..didn't show tonight I am afraid..dont blame the manager or the referee...yellow cards for mouthing.again....we must have players on the border line of not playing again this season......Yes I am fortunate that I still have long standing friends in Penicuik who I meet regularly.. socially. and as I have said before..I am not interested in other clubs domestic politics and the subject is never broached at anytime..what I do know they have one of the best run clubs in junior football and the Officials are always at the gates welcoming away fans as they come in whatever the game...good PR and the match programme they produce is of the highest quality......

Our nearest senior team is in the Lowland League and I have ventured to their matches on several occasions over the last few seasons..and stood beside the very sparse spectators and there is no atmosphere at all..irrespective if it is the big Scottish or what.....not for me this level of football I am afraid..Again my choice..

Every possibility that there wont be any junior football in the east within the next few years...then that is the way of things....then it could be the local under 21,s for me then..but one thing for certain you wont see me at the back of the goals at New Dundas....could I paraphrase an old stanza...You will be pleased that a dinasuar has left the building......Onwards and Upwards  as the saying goes. and genuinely..good luck .n your new venture.

You have every right to your opinion and you have put it forward very well.

Not trying to stoke the fire or jump onto any Bonnyrigg debate but whats the difference if Bonnyrigg in 2-5 years were playing in the Lowland League with quite possibly fallen SPFL teams, the top Lowland League teams, the top East Region and the top West Region sides in 1 division with all clubs Licenced, big Scottish Cup Entry , All in a Non League Scottish Cup, Fixture Lists, u20 League, possible Betfred and Irn Bru Cup participation etc

Your opinion is I’m sure respected at Bonnyrigg but it sounds all very short term, surely Bonnyrigg and others are looking 3 to 5 years down the line where they can really see their clubs prosper, improve on and off the pitch in turn benefitting the whole Community.

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6 minutes ago, kefc said:

You have every right to your opinion and you have put it forward very well.

Not trying to stoke the fire or jump onto any Bonnyrigg debate but whats the difference if Bonnyrigg in 2-5 years were playing in the Lowland League with quite possibly fallen SPFL teams, the top Lowland League teams, the top East Region and the top West Region sides in 1 division with all clubs Licenced, big Scottish Cup Entry , All in a Non League Scottish Cup, Fixture Lists, u20 League, possible Betfred and Irn Bru Cup participation etc

Your opinion is I’m sure respected at Bonnyrigg but it sounds all very short term, surely Bonnyrigg and others are looking 3 to 5 years down the line where they can really see their clubs prosper, improve on and off the pitch in turn benefitting the whole Community.

kafc....thank you for your kind remarks.....your club took the plunge and have been successful despite the bile that was thrown your way at the end of last season from many in the junior ranks......I have said repeatedly..the Pyramid is coming for all clubs and it will eventually  benefit  Scottish football as a whole...everyone finding their comfortable level.....I wish every team well that's taking the step..but for me junior football has its own magic that I haven't felt at LL games I have attended that's my bottom line..my choice is not to follow the team in the Eof S but that makes me a dinasuar in some of our clubs supporters eyes..fair doos..but I reserve the right to my opinion and choice of where spend my Saturdays..that seems an alien concept to some posters..and that's it.....Good luck next season.  maybe I will venture out of town when you come visiting in the next town..and maybe the atmosphere will be different ..who knows but I am not going to be corralled into following a brand I dont want too...I do wish some people would respect that and not start throwing mud and making innuendoes about me and my friends....who by the way half will be following the team next year.

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23 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

kafc....thank you for your kind remarks.....your club took the plunge and have been successful despite the bile that was thrown your way at the end of last season from many in the junior ranks......I have said repeatedly..the Pyramid is coming for all clubs and it will eventually  benefit  Scottish football as a whole...everyone finding their comfortable level.....I wish every team well that's taking the step..but for me junior football has its own magic that I haven't felt at LL games I have attended that's my bottom line..my choice is not to follow the team in the Eof S but that makes me a dinasuar in some of our clubs supporters eyes..fair doos..but I reserve the right to my opinion and choice of where spend my Saturdays..that seems an alien concept to some posters..and that's it.....Good luck next season.  maybe I will venture out of town when you come visiting in the next town..and maybe the atmosphere will be different ..who knows but I am not going to be corralled into following a brand I dont want too...I do wish some people would respect that and not start throwing mud and making innuendoes about me and my friends....who by the way half will be following the team next year.

Interesting your view on LL games. I've been to a couple, Alloa to see BSC Glasgow??? play recently. Went to see East Kilbride and have seen Cumbernauld Colts. BSC support is obviously a non runner not unlike Clydebank years ago playing midweek at Cappielow. Cumbernauld Colts, don't think there was 50 people there. EK had about 150 there the day i saw them at K-Park. Hard really to say about atmosphere, bit like an ice hockey match outdoors with no crowd.

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1 minute ago, Glenconner said:

Interesting your view on LL games. I've been to a couple, Alloa to see BSC Glasgow??? play recently. Went to see East Kilbride and have seen Cumbernauld Colts. BSC support is obviously a non runner not unlike Clydebank years ago playing midweek at Cappielow. Cumbernauld Colts, don't think there was 50 people there. EK had about 150 there the day i saw them at K-Park. Hard really to say about atmosphere, bit like an ice hockey match outdoors with no crowd.

Just as I felt at the game I attended....crowd 55....walked round and counted them...no banter at all....

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Crowd numbers and banter - the gaspings of the desperate.

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5 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Interesting your view on LL games. I've been to a couple, Alloa to see BSC Glasgow??? play recently. Went to see East Kilbride and have seen Cumbernauld Colts. BSC support is obviously a non runner not unlike Clydebank years ago playing midweek at Cappielow. Cumbernauld Colts, don't think there was 50 people there. EK had about 150 there the day i saw them at K-Park. Hard really to say about atmosphere, bit like an ice hockey match outdoors with no crowd.

And the Yoker game you went to the other week (which you stated on this thread somewhere) had how many...... 

5 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

Just as I felt at the game I attended....crowd 55....walked round and counted them...no banter at all....

That would be ww then eh, we don't hide our crowds, theyre in every match programme for all to see, a match programme that is probably up there wi the best in Scotland at non league level (just my opinion) a forward thinking club who for the community were knocked back for an artificial pitch and floodlights? 

My team might no be able to compete with oor neighbours doon the road and their thousands of fans but as long as they have a future whether it LL or EoSFL I'll still be there. 

I or most people I know go to a match to watch the fitba on show but you carry on crowd wanking bud. Yer welcome back in the social club after the game though if it's banter yer looking for ;)

Edited by newcastle broon
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8 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

Ask AUCHINLECK OR LINLITHGOW OR BONESS OR GLENAFTON OR TAYPORT OR HILL O BEATH....their winning was felt by the entire community not just the team and that is recognised further afield.....and importantly.. remembered for a lifetime.....because they shared part of the towns social history.......but Social History is old hat isn't it in the new order of thing...remember Maggie of the Poll Tax..there is no such thing as society..its insdividuals that count....

It doesn't make sense to say that because a team play in a different league they are no longer part of the community. I'll be surprised if Bonnyrigg aren't a more prominent part of life in the town in the future than they are today. 

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7 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

 

Every possibility that there wont be any junior football in the east within the next few years...then that is the way of things....then it could be the local under 21,s for me then..but one thing for certain you wont see me at the back of the goals at New Dundas....could I paraphrase an old stanza...You will be pleased that a dinasuar has left the building......Onwards and Upwards  as the saying goes. and genuinely..good luck .n your new venture.

I think that's shortsighted.  OK the LL and the EoS as they are presently constituted are pretty poor - with  just half a dozen or so clubs who would survive at the top level of the juniors but there will soon be a mass takeover by the junior clubs. The problem is going to be like the  one the NHS has with bedblocking - it's going to take many years to weed out those occupying the top levels who shouldn't be there. The unstructured rush to join the EoS by a ragbag of East junior teams hasn't helped, of course. It'll just mean a longer wait until the proper order of things is restored.

Edited by Khufu2
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19 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I think that's shortsighted.  OK the LL and the EoS as they are presently constituted are pretty poor - with  just half a dozen or so clubs who would survive at the top level of the juniors but there will soon be a mass takeover by the junior clubs. The problem is going to be like the  one the NHS has with bedblocking - it's going to take many years to weed out those occupying the top levels who shouldn't be there. The unstructured rush to join the EoS by a ragbag of East junior teams hasn't helped, of course. It'll just mean a longer wait until the proper order of things is restored.

:lol: *typed with a clenched fist

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