Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

You still didn't answer the question (rather than have a go at me, answer the points being raised).

The EoS wouldn't need new blazers, they already have a board who are more than competent enough to handle an increase in size of the league, and they dont need to entice anyone to join either, they didn't entice any of the 13 clubs who are already moving.

The SJFA have no relevance in the east and they will not join the pyramid as an entity at all anywhere.  They will stick to what they have always done, organise the Junior game.

 

 

 

If it hadn't been for the EoS, there wouldn't have been a pyramid. Being instrumental in forming one, nearly cost the EoS its existence, but it has survived as a pyramid feeder league in spite of considerable difficulties. Surely, few posters (and fans) can argue with my view that in all the circumstances, the EoS has been very well run ?

Can it do so in the West, on a temporary basis to get it started ? Probably if there are 10 or12 junior clubs who wish to join it (under the SFA's umbrella), as suggested in the media article above. 

As in the East, according to the SJFA "questionnaire" results (and pyramid opponents on here), there will be junior clubs who wish to stay within 'the grade', so there will be an ongoing role for the SJFA., and presumably the Junior Cup would be retained. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Robert James

[FairWeatherFan]

Clearly the biggest change needed right now is free elections in the EoSFA! How all these poor innocent Junior clubs can sign up for a despotic regime that hands out lifetime committee seats to no one but their cronies is unimaginable.

Oh, wait no. The EoS are actually bending over backwards to accomadate everyone they can and i'm sure once everyone's a fully paid up member they'll all get equal votes and can campaign for committee positions like everyone else.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Robert James said:

If it hadn't been for the EoS, there wouldn't have been a pyramid. Being instrumental in forming one, nearly cost the EoS its existence, but it has survived as a pyramid feeder leave in spite of considerable difficulties. Surely, few posters (and fans) can argue that in all the circumstances, the EoS has been very well run ?

Can it do so in the West, on a temporary basis to get it started ? Probably if there are 10 or12 junior clubs who wish to join it (under the SFA's umbrella), as suggested in the media article above. 

As in the East, according to the SJFA "questionnaire" results (and pyramid opponents on here), there will be junior clubs who wish to stay within 'the grade', so there will be an ongoing role for the SJFA., and presumably the Junior Cup would be retained.

I think the EoS setting up a WoS is more about guidance than anything else. Get the WoS members together, here's our constitution and rules. Here's the things you might need to know about being the under the SFA instead of the SJFA. You're going to want to know about getting your members licenced = here's what we've learned.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Since a lot of this seems to be in mind for licencing there isn't much of a pressing rush to get it done now, but something to work towards.

Going to guess they also make most of their money from matchday revenues. You need a decent team on the field to attract fans, and encourage sponsors. Bit of a speculate to accumulate type of approach. Take £30,000 out of the budget and you might start flirting with relegation, which would lead to crowds going down and suddenly you've got even less to work with.

Whereas you do one off things like sponsored events & fundraising nights you get there in the end and without effecting the on the field side of things.

 

That's actually my whole point to be honest.... If you want a good team on the park and good crowds because it's all about trophies and you don't want to sacrifice that then why mention anything about sponsorship for ground maintenance.

That being said, if you are transparent with fans (most would stay watching) about a 2 season drop in 'on park success' by reappropriating funds, that would mean no need for fundraising (fans don't lose more of their own money) and the club only had to maintain the new facilities each year thereafter.... If it takes two years or three years, cut 10 grand a year from the playing budget, accept the drop and get the work done.... If that doesn't suit the club that is for them to decide.

As a side note, having done one off events, these rarely provide the type of money mentioned. I guess though its only my view that a club spending a level of money on players(not obviously confirmed officially and my personal speculation based on league played in and current league position) could more than afford to redirect some funds on a yearly basis to upgrade their facilities. Again though only my view. 

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Saw this posted on twitter: https://twitter.com/AlanDRobertson_/status/995441207881891840

 

 

Bedtime reading. Have a good week everyone.

[tombrown]

21 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Clearly the biggest change needed right now is free elections in the EoSFA! How all these poor innocent Junior clubs can sign up for a despotic regime that hands out lifetime committee seats to no one but their cronies is unimaginable.

Oh, wait no. The EoS are actually bending over backwards to accomadate everyone they can and i'm sure once everyone's a fully paid up member they'll all get equal votes and can campaign for committee positions like everyone else.

The east of scotland is run by a board.it also has 2 nuetral members.a secetary and a fixture secetary.

[tombrown]

21 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I think the EoS setting up a WoS is more about guidance than anything else. Get the WoS members together, here's our constitution and rules. Here's the things you might need to know about being the under the SFA instead of the SJFA. You're going to want to know about getting your members licenced = here's what we've learned.

Thats bang on.just need teams to step up.

[parsforlife]

42 member clubs playing in four divisions, running the league cup and development leagues. Yeah, totally different...
The rest is just plumbing. Or are you one of these people who think English football started in 1992?
I honestly think you're just arguing for the sake of it, and I'm not getting dragged into nonsense.

Well no, how the organisation is set up and operates is far more to do with how it's viewed than the number of clubs involved.

Sounds like you are more bothered that a non-league national cup exists than the existence of the SJFA.

[Auld Heid]

Why does the SJFA need to exist at all in that scenario? tiers 8-10 in the East would be run by the EoS, why wouldn't it be? same with the other Regions.
The SJFA will only continue to be relevant for as long as the Junior game exists as a seperate grade.

The SJFA were in the perfect position to run a national level that fed into the LL and HL as an existing national body.

Instead they stuck their heads in the sand and been left behind and watched as teams defect to the EoS.

This whole conversation should have been the opposite way around and EoS team coming the other way.

Tom Johnstone legacy will be the man that killed junior football.

[energyzone]

Having to fundraise 30k in one effort suggests not only are the club chucking too much money on players, they have done so for so long they are having to make up for decades of neglect.
 
Of course if you are in a league where everyone is striving to improve off-field you are far less worried about losing competitiveness when spending on facilities, junior clubs are now feeling to affects of their failure to introduce any form of meaningful ground regulation after accepting clubs as members, it's nuts that super league clubs with 6 figure playing budgets are being held to the same standard as amateur clubs.
 
As for his 'wouldn't change the memories for anything' I have no idea how he can think like that. I'd suggest he's not talked many fans of clubs who have gone close to/have gone bust, it's a fucking hellish time and the small benefits of overspending are nowhere near enough to make up for it. It's utterly bonkers thinking and to suggest it's ok would certainly see a 'bringing the game into disrepute' charge against you and your clubs financials gone over rigorously if the SFA were serious about financial responsibility.
 

A couple of points here.

Kilwinning have been close to going to the wall on a couple of occasions since 2004 so I imagine fans of the club will be well aware of how that feels. Despite that, I don't know any fan that would want to swap the memories from 1999. It's easy to say it's not worth it, but let's say it's the equivalent of Dunfermline winning the treble then spending the next decade loitering about the bottom two divisions as a result. Would it be worth it for that experience? I suspect many would say yes. You have to be in that situation to really appreciate it.

The current committee have only been in place for a couple of seasons so it's not as if it's the same people who have presided over the ongoing inability to construct proper changing facilities. A lot of work has been done to the ground in the last 4 years so it's not as if regeneration has halted while the playing standard improves.

The problem, as ever, is that the top league clubs bring the biggest crowds, generate the most interest and produce the biggest revenue. The drop off in crowds in the league below is huge.

It's only been in the last year or so that the pyramid and a potential WOS league has been seriously discussed, hence the focus at Kilwinning on how to improve the changing facilities to take advantage of such a league if/when it begins. The pyramid is only an advantage if you are licensed, and the Buffs are a long way from that at present.

[superbigal]

Funny if the safa come out and declare an interest in bolting on to the pyramid structure.

I wonder where that would leave the junior "grade" in the longer term.

Tier 27 is available below auchentogle ammies.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hillonearth]

8 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Funny if the safa come out and declare an interest in bolting on to the pyramid structure.

I wonder where that would leave the junior "grade" in the longer term.

Tier 27 is available below auchentogle ammies.

Can't see that one happening - too many parallel associations to factor in, and a lot of the stronger sides are either happy to be big fish in a small pool or don't have first call on their parks - and certainly don't therefore have the option to develop them - relying on mainly council/school facilities. There are a good few clubs who would be assets though were this to change.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Hillonearth

[Burnie_man]

The SJFA were in the perfect position to run a national level that fed into the LL and HL as an existing national body.

Instead they stuck their heads in the sand and been left behind and watched as teams defect to the EoS.

This whole conversation should have been the opposite way around and EoS team coming the other way.

Tom Johnstone legacy will be the man that killed junior football.

I agree, the current structure in the East Juniors should have been the blueprint for EoS clubs to merge into and for this to be tier 6, 7 and 8 in the east (with involvement in the LL), but we've debated this to death over what should have happened. The SJFA weren't interested and in reality still aren't.

[BS7]

How many late applications are being made to the eos?  It could be a few????

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Can't see that one happening - too many parallel associations to factor in, and a lot of the stronger sides are either happy to be big fish in a small pool or don't have first call on their parks - and certainly don't therefore have the option to develop them - relying on mainly council/school facilities. There are a good few clubs who would be assets though were this to change.

 

2 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Can't see that one happening - too many parallel associations to factor in, and a lot of the stronger sides are either happy to be big fish in a small pool or don't have first call on their parks - and certainly don't therefore have the option to develop them - relying on mainly council/school facilities. There are a good few clubs who would be assets though were this to change.

Don't need to do this providing amateur clubs have the opportunity to apply for promotion if they wish to do so, and there isn't a 'closed shop' on entry.

[Sergeant Wilson]

12 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

They "folded" to faciliate unity in the professional game, for the greater good.  Similar parrallels here.....

No they didn't. The final incumbents went snarling and spitting in all directions. Precisely because they didn't get the amalgamated gig. The fact they lost to Doncaster's gang tells you about the qualities they offered. You're right about similarities, but the self preservation "gene" that comes with a blazer won't go away.

[Burnie_man]

8 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

No they didn't. The final incumbents went snarling and spitting in all directions. Precisely because they didn't get the amalgamated gig. The fact they lost to Doncaster's gang tells you about the qualities they offered. You're right about similarities, but the self preservation "gene" that comes with a blazer won't go away.

They still folded though, dissolved, whatever. I’m assuming they didn’t need to if they didn’t want to but presumably their members voted to do so?  It all appeared to be a fairly quick and relatively smooth transition, apart from who was going to head the new SPFL.

A bit like the SJFA survey results where the majority “voted” to join the Pyramid, and the SJFA hierarchy are currently at the self preservation stage.  I wonder will the advent of a WoSFL lead to a smooth transition of clubs?

Edited May 14, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

43 minutes ago, BS7 said:

How many late applications are being made to the eos?  It could be a few????

Craigroyston are apparently one and depending on who you listen to, Dunbar may or may not be another.  If both of them move that takes the EoS to 28 clubs.

Just over 3 weeks to the EoS AGM so I'm sure there will be further enquiries.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

They still folded though, dissolved, whatever. I’m assuming they didn’t need to if they didn’t want to but presumably their members voted to do so?  It all appeared to be a fairly quick and relatively smooth transition, apart from who was going to head the new SPFL.

A bit like the SJFA survey results where the majority “voted” to join the Pyramid, and the SJFA hierarchy are currently at the self preservation stage.  I wonder will the advent of a WoSFL lead to a smooth transition of clubs?

They did it in the deluded expectation that the Office Bearers would get high ranking roles, after facilitating the "return" of Rangers.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Craigroyston are apparently one and depending on who you listen to, Dunbar may or may not be another.  If both of them move that takes the EoS to 28 clubs.

Dundonald Bluebell are the other likely suspects I would have thought, if there is official correspondence about the outcome of the PWG meeting that makes it clear that east region entry at tier 6 in 2019/20 is highly unlikely, and Duns and Kelso always seem to get mentioned as possible returning clubs but that might have to wait until more of the Borders clubs have been relegated out of the LL and found their natural level again.