Junior football, what is the future?

[CJ Dalk]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Great to hear what is being achieved, my only criticism is the chopping down of the trees at Kings Park which was a very mediocre decision

Cheers.

We had to remove the embankment at main the entrance to create level access for disabled supporters.  According to the Landscape Officer the trees were 'over mature' and had to be removed on safety grounds.  I liked them too but they were only fairly ordinary, common, average, workaday Poplars.  

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

A wee birdie tells me there was some concern of diseased trees toppling into the school playground. Dalkeith children have mediocre skulls which can't withstand tonnes of timber.

They just needed to toughen up and wear helmets if neccesary.  Modern kids, mediocre pffft.......

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, CJ Dalk said:

Cheers.

We had to remove the embankment at main the entrance to create level access for disabled supporters.  According to the Landscape Officer the trees were 'over mature' and had to be removed on safety grounds.  I liked them too but they were only fairly ordinary, common, average, workaday Poplars.  

They were very poplar though......

[Robert James]

24 minutes ago, CJ Dalk said:

Nobody at Dalkeith is too offended by this, but we are determined to improve the club beyond your 'not very good' description.

What you probably don't realise is that over the last 5-6 years our Community Club has steadily grown to 400+ playing members including around 50 girls in addition to 40 qualified coaches. We have a disabled football section, over 50s walking football, our over 35s won their league 2 years in a row, our Sunday Ams got to the Scottish Cup semi-final the season before last,  we have 2 adult Futsal teams and will have an Under 20s development side next season, and plans are in place for a Women's team. We are one of only two East Region Junior clubs to have an SFA accredited club Chaplain. 

Last year our own training facility was upgraded to 3G astro and by the end of the year we'll have access to a full size 3G training pitch.  Our SFA Club Licensing application is being processed now so we have been making improvements to the ground and are developing things accordingly.

Dalkeith is the 'county town', and Midlothian is the fastest growing Local Authority in Scotland with 4000 new houses to be built within 3 miles of the town centre over the next 10 years.  A new train station was opened  at Eskbank in 2015, and the main visitor attraction at Dalkeith Country Park has benefited from considerable investment by Buccleuch Estates.

The town is definitely on the up and it deserves a strong football club for the locals to follow.  You can only wait and see if Dalkeith Thistle's potential is realised, or if it is still 'mediocre' in 5 years time.

Game, set and match to Dalkeith.  Not many junior or senior non league clubs have a CV which is as good. I've never seen them play, but their organisation and ambition should be recognised and admired.

Can I suggest that we stop trying to do a hatchet job on any clubs, whether pro or anti the juniors/pyramid ?   Fans of non league football deserve better.

[tombrown]

53 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Did you miss the official statement from Musselburgh Windsor last month ? 

Yea must have missed it.but i can assure  you they did not apply.

[FairWeatherFan]

41 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Next season the English tier 7  divisions which you have on a par with SPFL2 will increase from 3 to 4 and tier 8 from 6 to 7 (and probably later to 8). Many inEngland also believe that travel is excessive at part-time level.

I'm aware. It doesn't change the fact that historically the lower english leagues & lower SPFL leagues have managed to compete over long distances and limited part time resources. They've been going on for over 20 years now and could still be here in another 20 without a significant risk to the clubs. 

Keep in mind it was also the SFL that accepted Elgin, Peterhead, Gretna & Annan that expanded the footprint greatly picking them over more centralised clubs.

There isn't the passion for change in the SPFL to that great an extent to regionalise and what's beneath it isn't strong enough currently to change that mindset.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, CJ Dalk said:

Cheers.

We had to remove the embankment at main the entrance to create level access for disabled supporters.  According to the Landscape Officer the trees were 'over mature' and had to be removed on safety grounds.  I liked them too but they were only fairly ordinary, common, average, workaday Poplars.  

You also had the luxury of not owing your ground and the benefit of a lot of local authority help over the past few years that is not available to ground owning clubs but that aside your community club has made great strides forward...but one word of caution don't depend on the urban sprawl that is covering Midlothian at the moment you will be connected to Bonnyrigg by next year and east to Wallyford shortly ...Bonnyrigg now has a population of around 20.000 because of the house build ing that has taken place over the last 5 years and the rate of building is increasing.....That commuter population has not increased the gates at Bonnyrigg nor has it increased the footfall in the town shops......we have a successful team but it isn't reflected through the gates...the young professionals aren't interested in football  at our level...

[Robert James]

52 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

OK so next season junior clubs agree to join the pyramid. How do you create one that works? By placing teams like Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Penicuik two levels below Peebles Rovers and three levels below Whitehill Welfare.

LOL!!! You people don't have a clue. The east  section of the pyramid would be a laughing stock.  

A "laughing stock"  !!

That's what some/many junior committees were saying about the formation of the Lowland League five years ago.  Look at it now :  well established, improving year on year, and  fully recognised by the SFA and the SPFL as an integral part of the Scottish football structure .  Four or five years ago, I remember talking to the Chairman of a Junior Club , who not only dismissed it as a joke, but also said, "it will never last".  How wrong he was.

Fast forward, 5 years from now, I predict that the EoS will also be an essential component of a fully functioning pyramid, flourishing for the benefit of Scottish football overall.   I may be wrong, but just watch this space. 

 

[surely not!]

This is only slightly relevant, but I thought it would interest some.
The CHEAPEST ticket for the National League play-off final on Saturday is £39 for an adult and £19.50 for under 16s, with at least £1 on top for print-at-home. 
Is that the kind of "progress" and "ambition" the zealots here are after?
https://wembley.ee.co.uk/tickets/national-league-promotion-final-3/
 

Imagine there’ll only be a few hundred there then.....

[GordonS]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There isn't the passion for change in the SPFL to that great an extent to regionalise and what's beneath it isn't strong enough currently to change that mindset.

That's why I thought the Juniors would never join the seniors - the lower SPFL clubs have what suits them, and the Juniors have what suits them. Each to their own. But the lure of money drew some, the concept of progression drew others, and the sudden relative improvement in the LL has tipped the balance. 

[Robert James]

21 minutes ago, tombrown said:

Yea must have missed it.but i can assure  you they did not apply.

Correct. But they did enquire, and are responding to the advice given to them - at least that's what their statement said.  It didn't sound like "fake news",

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, surely not! said:

 

Imagine there’ll only be a few hundred there then.....

 

One of the teams has a higher average attendance this year than four teams in the Scottish Premiership, so I don't know what point you think you're making.

There will be thousands fewer than there would have been if they're charged a reasonable price. For non-league clubs to literally price supporters out of a huge game is a fcking disgrace. On that, surely to God, we can all agree.

[Hillonearth]

7 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

You also had the luxury of not owing your ground and the benefit of a lot of local authority help over the past few years that is not available to ground owning clubs but that aside your community club has made great strides forward...but one word of caution don't depend on the urban sprawl that is covering Midlothian at the moment you will be connected to Bonnyrigg by next year and east to Wallyford shortly ...Bonnyrigg now has a population of around 20.000 because of the house build ing that has taken place over the last 5 years and the rate of building is increasing.....That commuter population has not increased the gates at Bonnyrigg nor has it increased the footfall in the town shops......we have a successful team but it isn't reflected through the gates...the young professionals aren't interested in football  at our level...

The latter part of that is very true - despite new-build commuter housing being built around the stations along the Border line, the punters who move there for the most part will continue to work, shop and source their entertainment in Edinburgh,  and it will be an uphill struggle to interest them in a local team.

It's the same problem a lot of new town teams face...and indeed a lot of city teams...my lot play in the midst of the area with quite possibly the most transient population in Scotland; although they live there, a lot of the population don't put down roots to the point where they get round to investigating the local football team. They don't see themselves as actually being from there, more just living there at that moment in time.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

The latter part of that is very true - despite new-build commuter housing being built around the stations along the Border line, the punters who move there for the most part will continue to work, shop and source their entertainment in Edinburgh,  and it will be an uphill struggle to interest them in a local team.

It's the same problem a lot of new town teams face...and indeed a lot of city teams...my lot play in the midst of the area with quite possibly the most transient population in Scotland; although they live there, a lot of the population don't put down roots to the point where they get round to investigating the local football team. They don't see themselves as actually being from there, more just living there at that moment in time.

You have summed up my post to a tee....We also have a very thriving community club in the town..but I see more Messi,Juventus, Bayern,Chelsea,Hibs,Hearts, Celtic and Rangers strips on the new arrivals kids than Bonnyrigg ones...The point you make about not feeling part of the community is also a very valid point..the local Residents Forum facebook pages are full of moans about when we getting faster Broadband to download films or dog poo....Not what is being achieved by the local sports clubs.....and as a final point the home of our LL team Whitehill Welfare in Rosewell has also ..and is still having a house building boom but on the occasions I have watched them the biggest gate I have counted is 75.....Posters may poo poo the fact but our crowds are the generations of locals who have always watched and enjoyed our junior football team...but it is the case.

[Glenconner]

1 hour ago, Hillonearth said:

The latter part of that is very true - despite new-build commuter housing being built around the stations along the Border line, the punters who move there for the most part will continue to work, shop and source their entertainment in Edinburgh,  and it will be an uphill struggle to interest them in a local team.

It's the same problem a lot of new town teams face...and indeed a lot of city teams...my lot play in the midst of the area with quite possibly the most transient population in Scotland; although they live there, a lot of the population don't put down roots to the point where they get round to investigating the local football team. They don't see themselves as actually being from there, more just living there at that moment in time.

I know they said the West End had started moving East but somehow Lochburn Rd doesn't really cut it!!!

[The Moonster]

7 hours ago, GordonS said:

One of the teams has a higher average attendance this year than four teams in the Scottish Premiership, so I don't know what point you think you're making.

There will be thousands fewer than there would have been if they're charged a reasonable price. For non-league clubs to literally price supporters out of a huge game is a fcking disgrace. On that, surely to God, we can all agree.

Let's just make football free and everyone will turn up.

[daleboy1969]

10 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Well, the thread's called " Junior Football - what is the future?"

Given the fact that around 10% of the current Junior roster have already announced that they're leaving, with more apparently to follow them to the EoS and another chunk no doubt leaving once there's a viable West alternative in place, it's probably worth talking about it

Unless you want to make like the Amish, shun them and never speak their names again...

Aye ..but pages upon pages off what might be the EOS league format next season has HEE HAW to do with junior football .the forum seems to be a recruitment drive. Clubs want to leave for world domination , Fine . Give the clubs remaining peace and go quirky. We will watch your rise to fame on sky sports .

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, GordonS said:

Can you give examples of countries in which an entire division (other than the top tier) with an average attendance under 500 regularly involves up to 6-7 hour round trips?  If it's very straightforward then there must be plenty.

Skalica or Šamorín to Bardejov in the Slovak second tier is a ten hour round trip;  Sered' to Košice or indeed anywhere in the east of the country  in the same division is an eight hour round trip.  The league's average attendance is less than 500 and clubs take in about 4 Euros per adult spectator.  In the Croatian second tier, a round trip from Varaždin to Šibeník is an eight hour round trip and you can add another two hours to get to Split - once again in a national league. 

The idea that the amount of travelling involved in Scottish professional football is unusually large or difficult for its relatively well-off clubs to sustain is complete and utter nonsense then. 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, GordonS said:

Dunno about you, but I think "time immemorial" goes back further than 5 years. That's when one of the largest airlines in the world sponsored it. You know, the one with an annual revenue of $25 billion. Is that a credible enough sponsor for you?

The fact you didn't know that suggests you really don't know enough about Junior football to have opinions worth taking seriously.

FWIW they've also had Barr Construction (who built half the stands in Scotland), Scottish Citylink and obviously the long-lasting sponsorship from OVD Rum. But I'm sure you knew that, what with being so knowledgable about the Junior Cup.

How much of that $25 billion revenue did they put into sponsoring the cup and what was the massive prize money pot for the winner? That's the working definition of a credible sponsorship - not being able to attach their name to something while providing hee-haw in return.  That's a freebie. 

 

[Burnie_man]

How much of that $25 billion revenue did they put into sponsoring the cup and what was the massive prize money pot for the winner? That's the working definition of a credible sponsorship - not being able to attach their name to something while providing hee-haw in return.  That's a freebie. 

Emirates put in £80,000 a year I believe.