Junior football, what is the future?

[Jason King]

22 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

SJFA pay ALBA for the coverage do they not?

Yes. I believe they were also paying STV for the last decade or so of its transmission on there.

If the EoS, SoS, HL, LL or similar wanted a game on they would only need to pay - indeed I'm surprised that the HL hasn't yet thought about getting a game on live on the channel, especially a game between title challengers.

22 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Can you not read, or is it that you can't retain information? Crumbling grounds, dwindling crowds, bust flush, total sh!te!

Your bile would be better directed against the proper enemy. Again with the attacks and the insults and AGAIN with no comeback as to the positives that the Junior "grade" offers to clubs that are actually in it and those that are leaving. Come on surely it cant be hard for you to come up with at last one definitive item that highlights the plus side of the current structure and management. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Jason King

[cmontheloknow]

5 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Honestly I do not know but if they do they as an association are able to afford the promotion of Junior football and attempt to attract sponsors. Who sponsors the East of Scotland competitions?

Central Taxis sponsor the East of Scotland League.

Football Nation sponsor the East of Scotland Qualifying Cup.

As far as I remember, The King Cup has never been sponsored in the 20 years or so I've closely followed the EoS's fortunes. The Alex Jack Cup likewise.

[the tin man]

Looks like the East Region juniors are going for 3 leagues. A Super League and a Northern Premier and a Southern Premier.

Had heard Dunbar were a late application

[Ginaro]

37 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

That answer says it all, are you really of the opinion that there is nothing good about Junior Football?

This isn't about my opinion, this is your chance to tell us what's good about Junior football, and what it offers to keep teams from joining the pyramid.

You say we've heard all the misinformation and shite about the Juniors, so now's your change to counter that by putting out a positive message.

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ginaro

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Ah, the organ grinder, or is it the monkey? Hard to tell. Busted flush, just because you want it to be doesn't make it reality. But go on spouting your spurious doctrine, plenty have had their heads turned by the continuous stream misinformation regarding the land of silk and money. You and your monkeys want Junior Football ostracised so as the tail can continue wagging the dog. I suggest that "the grade" should be respected in all the change, the good parts taken on board.

Whilst I am opposed to "tails wagging dogs" in ANY context, it is worth pointing out that the "dog" in this debate is surely the SFA, who created the pyramid in 2013, with the agreement of the SPFL and the 'senior' non leagues. Hence it is the SJFA (who decided not to participate ), who are now the "waggers".

I have made it clear (in earlier posts) that IMO the SJFA should remain for the junior clubs which still don't wish to participate, providing they don't seek to prevent/criticise those that do want to join.  I would have liked Glasgow Uni to have joined, but they didn't/haven't done so, as yet.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Robert James

[Toffee fan]

All bases on current league positions.
Fauldhouse, tayport and Dunbar could still lose out to Thornton or even glenrothes.

Not a hope! The current top 6 will remain top 6 at season end. Thornton may well finish above St Andrews but that's where the story will end. With the amount of games Glenrothes still have to play, they may lose as much as they win.

[stanley]

23 minutes ago, the tin man said:

Had heard Dunbar were a late application

No idea if it's true but it would make sense for them to move considering they are the only East Lothian club left.

[LongTimeLurker]

3 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Soz not a very good  foto shot i put up !!

Glenrothes and Thornton are in the South Premier.

If as appears to be the case, the names are in current league table position orders, Dunbar, Thornton and Glenrothes are definitely missing, if it is assumed that Fauldhouse and Tayport are making up the numbers to 16 in the super league. Newburgh, Coupar Angus and Forfar Albion would bring the north premier to 18 clubs as they are below Brechin Vics in the north division table right now, while Kirkcaldy YM are bottom of the south division and would be expected to be the 16th and last club listed for the south premier.

[Che Dail]

4 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Considering the defections,the prefix 'Not So' might have been appropriate for the top grouping.

It's a poor league -  the standard dropped noticeably this season and will be worse next year.  The  ERJFA should take the opportunity to regionalise it now to prepare for the seasons ahead.  In the last five seasons the highest placed North of Tay clubs are:

12/13 Carnoustie, 9th

13/14 Lochee, 10th

14/15 Carnoustie, 13th

15/16 Broughty, 10th

16/17 Lochee, 5th

You have to question what benefit these clubs plus Forfar bring to the bigger clubs in the central belt - travelling support will be minimal.

[Goalie Hamish]

2 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Ah, the organ grinder, or is it the monkey? Hard to tell. Busted flush, just because you want it to be doesn't make it reality. But go on spouting your spurious doctrine, plenty have had their heads turned by the continuous stream misinformation regarding the land of silk and money. You and your monkeys want Junior Football ostracised so as the tail can continue wagging the dog. I suggest that "the grade" should be respected in all the change, the good parts taken on board.

Seriously son get a fecking grip of yersel yer acting like a muppet.

[VodkaTap]

5 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Red dotting cabal? Irony of ironies! So, how does an admission that crowds in the Juniors are not what they were in the 80s a reinforcement of your point? Crowds are down all round in Scotland and it is absolutely not exclusive to Junior Football. It would be great to recapture the days when a Talbot Cumnock league match attracted 3000, but as has been discussed there are so many more distractions and all grades have a difficult job to maintain and attract consistent regular crowds. The top Juniors, and in particular my club, do not bad at all. So with you and the organ grinder continually purporting such myth like crumbling stadiums a low crowds, to promote a grade with virtually no crowds and uninspiring stadiums, I think some antidote to such blatant propaganda is in order. So to folks reading this ruse of a thread a word to the good, Junior Football is the biggest section of the non league sector, it has the biggest clubs with the biggest crowd pulling potential, it should never be discarded or deserted. For some reason that's what the organ grinder and the monkeys would have you do, be careful for what you buy into to! 

Isa, I have followed this thread with great interest and I understand your passion for junior football - that comes across very clearly.

We have heard that there are lots of what's currently wrong with both the pyramid & the juniors. What should have been done, what could have been done - but thats history now.

What I would be interested to know is how do you see the future of non league football in the years ahead?

How do we move from what we have now, to what you think we will have in the future ?

[archieb]

3 hours ago, Vollyman said:

Every league in Junior football has sponsors, every regional cup competition in Junior football has sponsors sadly to date the Scottish Junior Cup has no sponsor but is being televised live , not too bad for a “dying grade” with a membership of 148 clubs. How many Lowland League or East of Scotland competitions are sponsored or televised?

Not so

In the West Region Juniors, the Central Sectional Cup and the Central League Cup have had no sponsor either this season or last.

[holme]

If the East is going to drop the Premier. Then the winners of the North and South leagues should be promoted to the Super 

When Stranraer  won the third tier, the year they introduced the 4 leagues of 10 they went to tier 2 

Edited May 3, 2018 by holme

[John S]

5 hours ago, Robert James said:

and Dunbar ?

On the Super League list - last name

 

[aberfeldy]

If as appears to be the case, the names are in current league table position orders, Dunbar, Thornton and Glenrothes are definitely missing, if it is assumed that Fauldhouse and Tayport are making up the numbers to 16 in the super league. Newburgh, Coupar Angus and Forfar Albion would bring the north premier to 18 clubs as they are below Brechin Vics in the north division table right now, while Kirkcaldy YM are bottom of the south division and would be expected to be the 16th and last club listed for the south premier.

Lochore awaits with baited breath to find out which side of the divide they land on this time[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Junior_Arab said:

I think everybody on here appreciates junior football for what it is. But some of us struggle to see exactly what the major plus points and benefits of it are that would or could not apply nor be replicated in a pyramid. 

Never said you couldn't replicate, in fact I am suggesting we do.

[Salvo Montalbano]

OK, now we're getting somewhere... still no idea what the benefits are mind you. Am I allowed to guess?

- ticket prices (although I'm not convinced there is a minimum pricing rule in the EoSL, LL, or SPFL so if you want to charge £3 or whatever you do now, presumably you still can)
- less travel (although in the EoSL and any new WoSL travel would be broadly similar - perhaps more in the LL but still not terribly excessive - and more again in the SPFL. Having said that, as a Pars fan some of my favourite away days have been to the likes of Elgin, Peterhead, Ayr and Stranraer with lunch stops, a few beers and sometimes a new ground to tick off the list)
- being able to smoke/drink at the ground (You can still smoke at a lot of grounds even up in the higher leagues of the SPFL; why you would is any other question! Disgusting habit. You can't drink during the game but most grounds have pubs nearby or actually in the ground - often there's a good atmosphere there as rival fans mix)
- entry to the Junior Cup (Which could be retained as an all encompassing non-league trophy in a similar vein to the FA Trophy down south. We might even see the return of a sponsor)
- lots of local rivalries (Which would see many retained as the feeder leagues are regionalised; you would also see new rivalries grow in the same way that Kelty/Bonnyrigg became a bit of a rivalry once the East Superleague was set up and Kelty got a bit of investment. Regionalisation in some of the cups could see Ayr or Kilmarnock (or one of the Glasgow clubs) come to Talbot, Glenafton, Hurlford etc which would generate a lot of local interest)
- the Junior name/brand (Which is just a name)
- being a big fish in a small pond (nothing we can do about that)

Any other benefits I'm missing? Any others that can't continue as part of the pyramid?

[LongTimeLurker]

10 hours ago, aberfeldy said:

Lochore awaits with baited breath to find out which side of the divide they land on this time

Guess you could be listed in the premier south after Kirkcaldy YM as the only north division team that should probably move, and that would help balance the numbers to 18 and 17, assuming you are not a late application to the EoS . I guess extra teams in the super league to bring it up to 18 could help explain where at least two of Dunbar, Glenrothes and Thornton are. Seriously doubt that a 19 team super league division would be attempted, so maybe one of those three are a late applicant?  

Edited May 4, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[kleptomaniac]

Are they calling the new North and South divisions “Premier” leagues to make them more attractive to the likes of Pumpherston and Dundee North End? Presumably the email about the EGM wasn’t issued to the leaving clubs in case it was leaked. Good job [emoji122]

[Jambo'ness]

16 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

SJFA pay ALBA for the coverage do they not?

This fact alone should act as a wake-up call to those trusting in TJ & his SJFA.

I really cannot see the sense in paying a TV company money to show a game, when it will undoubtedly lead to fewer bodies through the gate.

if it was with the intent to attract a sponsor, it may make sense but they've failed miserably on that score.

Many die-hard junior fans see the clubs leaving as traitors to the grade or lemmings jumping over the cliff but the alternative for most is to wither and die, gradually, whilst the rest of the non-league scene prospers.