Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

24 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I picked three clubs roughly from each of the regions, so cheers for agreeing with me. My point was the pyramid is roughly right. Poorer clubs will be relegated, better clubs promoted. A cliché, but that doesn't make it wrong!

"Roughly right"? Why not get it right?  AT are closer to SCW and HRA than they are to Aberdeen .. but they aren't on a par with them. They are considerably better.  

We keep hearing this mantra about poorer clubs will be relegated and better ones promoted  and everything will be fine ... but it's gonna take a long time to work through - unless something drastic like 4 down from the LL is introduced and I can't see that happening. Far better to get it right in the first place rather than wait till it sorts itself out.

What could be done?  Well the obvious answer is a third tier 5 league with 16 selected teams admitted. Failing that create two linear LL divisions. Season 1, 16 existing LL teams, plus a selected 16 licensed teams (assuming juniors have the years' notice). In season 1 you have two tier 5 divisions and for the following season the top 8 in each division form tier 5 Premier and the bottom 8 in each division form tier 6 Division One. This now delivers two divisions of licensed clubs.

Handpicking your clubs means that providing they have their licences the likes of Auchinleck, Cumnock, Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Pollok, Beith, Clydebank, Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Newtongrange, Sauchie are likely to get spots based on playing strength and facilities.

Below that you can do your own thing. EOS, SOS, East Juniors, West Juniors can all feed in to tier 6. Only licensed clubs can go up and LL tier 6 teams must nominate in advance the tier 7 division they wish to be relegated to.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

He talks so much sense he sounds like a twin brother of yours    a mediocre attempt at trolling.

There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

"Roughly right"? Why not get it right?  AT are closer to SCW and HRA than they are to Aberdeen .. but they aren't on a par with them. They are considerably better.  

We keep hearing this mantra about poorer clubs will be relegated and better ones promoted  and everything will be fine ... but it's gonna take a long time to work through - unless something drastic like 4 down from the LL is introduced and I can't see that happening. Far better to get it right in the first place rather than wait till it sorts itself out.

What could be done?  Well the obvious answer is a third tier 5 league with 16 selected teams admitted. Failing that create two linear LL divisions. Season 1, 16 existing LL teams, plus a selected 16 licensed teams (assuming juniors have the years' notice). In season 1 you have two tier 5 divisions and for the following season the top 8 in each division form tier 5 Premier and the bottom 8 in each division form tier 6 Division One. This now delivers two divisions of licensed clubs.

Handpicking your clubs means that providing they have their licences the likes of Auchinleck, Cumnock, Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Pollok, Beith, Clydebank, Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Newtongrange, Sauchie are likely to get spots based on playing strength and facilities.

Below that you can do your own thing. EOS, SOS, East Juniors, West Juniors can all feed in to tier 6. Only licensed clubs can go up and LL tier 6 teams must nominate in advance the tier 7 division they wish to be relegated to.

Isa, you have no right to demand complete reconstruction and walk in at tier 5.  It's not going to happen.

In the West you will get a WoSFL on par with the EoSFL at some point, perhaps in a decade or so's time once many more clubs become Licenced you may see the LL split to take into account a strong and fully Licenced WoSFL, that's the natural evolution of this but until then the SPFL wont agree to three feeders.

[Khufu2]

6 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie.

No. I'm Isa Goudie.

[Marshmallo]

7 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie. There's only one Isa Goudie-one Isa Goudie there's only one Isa Goudie-One Isa Goudie -there's only one Isa Goudie.

Head's gone

[Jeek]

Whenever the anti pyramid brigade start talking about how rubbish the grounds are in the LL /EOS, It reminds me of this picture.

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Isa, you have no right to demand complete reconstruction and walk in at tier 5.  It's not going to happen.

In the West you will get a WoSFL on par with the EoSFL at some point, perhaps in a decade or so's time once many more clubs become Licenced you may see the LL split to take into account a strong and fully Licenced WoSFL, that's the natural evolution of this but until then the SPFL wont agree to three feeders.

That depends on whether you want the pyramid to reflect relatives strengths of teams or whether you want the pyramid to be a guddle and a laughing stock.

No one is demanding anything. It's simply a sensible proposal. I understand why people like you, who have a horse in the race and can't see beyond that fact and want to punish the johnny comme latelies, are agin it, but the proposal isn't really intended for such people. It's for those who want a sensible structure.

[Owen Morgan]

6 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

No. I'm Isa Goudie.

No! I'm Isa Goudie!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Owen Morgan said:

No! I'm Isa Goudie!

Naw, I'm Isa Goudie

[Marten]

39 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

"Roughly right"? Why not get it right?  AT are closer to SCW and HRA than they are to Aberdeen .. but they aren't on a par with them. They are considerably better.  

We keep hearing this mantra about poorer clubs will be relegated and better ones promoted  and everything will be fine ... but it's gonna take a long time to work through - unless something drastic like 4 down from the LL is introduced and I can't see that happening. Far better to get it right in the first place rather than wait till it sorts itself out.

What could be done?  Well the obvious answer is a third tier 5 league with 16 selected teams admitted. Failing that create two linear LL divisions. Season 1, 16 existing LL teams, plus a selected 16 licensed teams (assuming juniors have the years' notice). In season 1 you have two tier 5 divisions and for the following season the top 8 in each division form tier 5 Premier and the bottom 8 in each division form tier 6 Division One. This now delivers two divisions of licensed clubs.

Handpicking your clubs means that providing they have their licences the likes of Auchinleck, Cumnock, Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Pollok, Beith, Clydebank, Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Newtongrange, Sauchie are likely to get spots based on playing strength and facilities.

Below that you can do your own thing. EOS, SOS, East Juniors, West Juniors can all feed in to tier 6. Only licensed clubs can go up and LL tier 6 teams must nominate in advance the tier 7 division they wish to be relegated to.

As said, I support a more drastic promotion/relegation, but why won't that happen? I can understand the limited promotion/relegation now as there are simply not a lot of clubs in the pyramid and there are some big differences in standards. If the SJFA finally do agree with their clubs/leagues being included in the pyramid, there will be discussions/negotiations of how it will actually happen. They could easily argue that there has to be a more drastic promotion/relegation to get the best 16 teams in the LL into the LL. That will be in everyone's interest after all. Nobody want to see regular double figure drubbings like Kelty in the EOS this season for many years to come. With a decent negotiation, I'm sure there will be some solution that it doesn't take too long for clubs to find their natural level whilst being fair to the clubs currently in the pyramid.

But for that to happen, the SJFA need to seriously engage first...

Edited April 24, 2018 by Marten

[Burnie_man]

29 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

That depends on whether you want the pyramid to reflect relatives strengths of teams or whether you want the pyramid to be a guddle and a laughing stock.

No one is demanding anything. It's simply a sensible proposal. I understand why people like you, who have a horse in the race and can't see beyond that fact and want to punish the johnny comme latelies, are agin it, but the proposal isn't really intended for such people. It's for those who want a sensible structure.

We're not even in yet and we're being accused of punishing people

Nobody laughs at the Pyramid, it's attracting more clubs to join it as they see it as far more professional than what they suffer in Junior football and brings obvious benefits to their clubs.  The current East Superleague Champions are in it, and the Champions elect are about to join it. They're not laughing.

We now have the SJFA battering at the door wanting in, presumably they're not laughing.

Maybe it's just Isa that's laughing.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Burnie_man

[heedthebaa]

49 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

That depends on whether you want the pyramid to reflect relatives strengths of teams or whether you want the pyramid to be a guddle and a laughing stock.

No one is demanding anything. It's simply a sensible proposal. I understand why people like you, who have a horse in the race and can't see beyond that fact and want to punish the johnny comme latelies, are agin it, but the proposal isn't really intended for such people. It's for those who want a sensible structure.

Sounds to me you just want things to stay as they are, for as long as possible, until you have no choice, then, with tears and snotters awewhere, barge your way into the pyramid, demanding to be put at the highest tier possible. Away and take a f**k to yourself. Scottish football is changing, for the better and if you don’t want in, fine, fester away where you are, it’ll be no big deal to the ones that do have  the foresight and balls to do it #ayebeen

[Cyclizine]

53 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Isa, you have no right to demand complete reconstruction and walk in at tier 5.  It's not going to happen.

In the West you will get a WoSFL on par with the EoSFL at some point, perhaps in a decade or so's time once many more clubs become Licenced you may see the LL split to take into account a strong and fully Licenced WoSFL, that's the natural evolution of this but until then the SPFL wont agree to three feeders.

Exactly, I think it's a no-brainer that the Lowland region should be split into East and West (or even more...) at some point, but to do that there needs to be a much bigger pool of licenced clubs in the Lowland area. I think it'll happen - I suspect as well that level 6 will become licenced clubs only. A WoSFL is the first step towards this. It's not going to happen immediately, but at least it now looks as if the interested parties are talking to each other now, even if some demands might be a bit unrealistic.

[santheman]

53 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Naw, I'm Isa Goudie

We're  ALL Isa Goudie

[Khufu2]

3 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

Sounds to me you just want things to stay as they are, for as long as possible, until you have no choice, then, with tears and snotters awewhere, barge your way into the pyramid, demanding to be put at the highest tier possible. Away and take a f**k to yourself. Scottish football is changing, for the better and if you don’t want in, fine, fester away where you are, it’ll be no big deal to the ones that do have  the foresight and balls to do it #ayebeen

LOL!!!!

 

In what way is advocating the strongest junior teams join the Lowland League "wanting things to stay as they are for as long as possible" In what way is advocating promotion between the various leagues and the LL wanting things to stay the same?

I can understand why you are upset. After all, it would  knock back Eyemouth United's chances of  getting to SPFL2 by a season.

Put your brain in gear before answering.

[Jason King]

"Join the lowland league" - having refused to have anything to do with it until clubs in the East opened up the future why should these supposed giants of the West be allowed to join the LL instead of win promotion into it via the pyramid structure?

There lies the biggest issue you have, you can not accept that Junior clubs will not be allowed automatic entry into the existing top tier of non-league football and that is eating you up. Talbot being in a lower league is unacceptable to you and its the elephant in your room.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Jason King

[HTG]

19 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

That depends on whether you want the pyramid to reflect relatives strengths of teams or whether you want the pyramid to be a guddle and a laughing stock.

No one is demanding anything. It's simply a sensible proposal. I understand why people like you, who have a horse in the race and can't see beyond that fact and want to punish the johnny comme latelies, are agin it, but the proposal isn't really intended for such people. It's for those who want a sensible structure.

You're 5 years too late.  That's the harsh reality - you and anyone else can set out an ideal scenario but you're too late.  

The sfa  is not going to rip up the HL/LL structure. 3 regions is right in the long term - much easier when a strong tier 6 is in evidence. 

[heedthebaa]

8 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

LOL!!!!

 

 

I can understand why you are upset. After all, it would  knock back Eyemouth United's chances of  getting to SPFL2 by a season.

 

I was thinking two seasons

 

 

 

[Khufu2]

2 minutes ago, Jason King said:

"Join the lowland league" - having refused to have anything to do with it until clubs in the East opened up the future why should they be allowed to join instead of win promotion into it?

There lies the biggest issue you have, you can not accept that Junior clubs will not be allowed automatic entry into the existing top tier of non-league football and that is eating you up. Talbot being in a lower league is unacceptable to you and its the elephant in your room.

LOL!

Why do you keep citing Talbot?  There are at least a dozen junior clubs that are better than the majority of Lowland League teams.

Why do you keep harping on about the past? Why not come and live in the present.  For the first time a  proper pyramid is going to happen thanks to the juniors joining. Why not get the structure right from the start rather than harping on about junior clubs did or didn't do in the past.  It's time some people  here actually  faced the reality of the situation rather than nurse their grievances and let their grievances rule their head.

This constant reference to Talbot is worrying. It's odd how some people like to construct their own little imaginary world isn't it? You're in good company on this thread though, that's for sure.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Khufu2 said:

LOL!

Why do you keep citing Talbot?  There are at least a dozen junior clubs that are better than the majority of Lowland League teams.

Why do you keep harping on about the past? Why not come and live in the present.  For the first time a  proper pyramid is going to happen thanks to the juniors joining. Why not get the structure right from the start rather than harping on about junior clubs did or didn't do in the past.  It's time some people  here actually  faced the reality of the situation rather than nurse their grievances and let their grievances rule their head.

This constant reference to Talbot is worrying. It's odd how some people like to construct their own little imaginary world isn't it? You're in good company on this thread though, that's for sure.

They think yer me! They canny get it that we don’t all think the same as them.